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#21 mr chairman

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:21 PM

Keith are you looking to generate support for Leigh Easts cause, or are you trying to alienate people by raising pointless questions aimed at people like myself  ?
 
You know were the association with Leigh Miners Rangers lies , I can honestly say that I did not know Lord Peter Smith was the honorary vice president , and I,m fairly confident a lot of other people don't know either.
 
Bit of advice my old mate what is needed now to fight Leigh East,s  cause is to act in a dignified and professional manner and stick to things that are relevant to the cause and not to bring personalities into the equation  you will lose support otherwise , conducting business on internet forums is not wise , East need to sit down around the table with the council and thrash out a deal and use a third party if necessary.
 
The council are saying its a cost cutting measure, well as a club you need to challenge that with cold hard facts and show them that their cost cutting measures will fold the club force some kids onto the streets and we know where that could lead , they then would lose the goodwill of the people they are supposed to represent.
 
It has been reported that the LSV is struggling well use that to back up your defence ask them to compare both the LSV and yourselves as to which costs the tax payers more ?


Mick just proving that it might be a conflict of interest for those to make decisions on Leigh east . On the subject of getting round a table well . 41 meetings in 5 years , 250 hrs lost at work , yes I'm self employed . You mention hard facts we have 12 files full of hard facts . 3rd parties we have had a solicitor and other councillor s including andy Burnham . Lsv struggling , last year they got a bailout from Wigan council of £500k . You see it's all been done and still being done . I attended a meeting at Leigh east on Monday evening for 4 hours , we are trying mick , we might need to fight dirty when it comes to it . One good thing that's come of all this is that Leigh east are stronger than ever at committe level , Janet and myself are back , everyone is buzzing it really is good to be back

#22 TaxiEgg

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:04 AM

And I would think we would all support the club in its efforts to secure its long term future .

Andy Burnham is a parent at Leigh Miners Rangers and Lord Peter Smith as a long standing connection through several bodies with TB .
Conflict of interest do not really see how that as anything to do with Leigh Miners Rangers neither of the two people have any say or input in how the club is run and the only way I can see the Miners benefitting is if Leigh East fold surely you are not suggesting that Miners want that ?

What you need to focus on is to convince Wigan Council as to the value of the service you as a club provide to the local community ,
We all know in the Town that very little is provided by the council for the young people of Leigh and without voluntary groups like the East and Miners our kids would be on the streets causing havoc.

This situation as nothing to do with Leigh M.R and perhaps you don't mean to implicate them in this saga but your conflict of interest theory leads the independent observer to think otherwise.

#23 kaykie

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:26 AM

And I would think we would all support the club in its efforts to secure its long term future .

Andy Burnham is a parent at Leigh Miners Rangers and Lord Peter Smith as a long standing connection through several bodies with TB .
Conflict of interest do not really see how that as anything to do with Leigh Miners Rangers neither of the two people have any say or input in how the club is run and the only way I can see the Miners benefitting is if Leigh East fold surely you are not suggesting that Miners want that ?

What you need to focus on is to convince Wigan Council as to the value of the service you as a club provide to the local community ,
We all know in the Town that very little is provided by the council for the young people of Leigh and without voluntary groups like the East and Miners our kids would be on the streets causing havoc.

This situation as nothing to do with Leigh M.R and perhaps you don't mean to implicate them in this saga but your conflict of interest theory leads the independent observer to think otherwise.

I agree mick,I know a of lads at miners and they support east in there fight against the wigan council because they like nothing better than a derby match same as east do and that goes from u7 through to open age so lets not drag miners into this because of 2 associated with the club especially lord peter smith who probably hardly ever sets foot in miners

#24 mr chairman

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 06:43 AM

Mick . I have said many times over the years 99% of the people at miners don't have a problem with east and banter is healthy for both clubs . My point mick is we know Trevor Barton the life president of rangers hates east to the core , he is a very influential person and is lord peter smiths mate along with andy Burnham . When did Trevor Barton ever help east or peter smith in fact . Andy Burnham as helped Leigh east . East don't have any problems with 99% of the miners people but you know as well as I do mick if any of the other two and that does not include andy would not be welcome at east . Facts can be provided why

#25 Wilber

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 07:45 AM

Reply from UkParliamentRL

UKParliamentRL ‏@UKParliamentRL
@barla1973 thanks for contacting us. Please send details Asap. Email is best. @GregMulholland1

Greg's email address is info@gregmulholland.org

greg's website http://gregmulholland.org/en/

Website for the all parliamentary group.http://www.apprlg.org.uk/

If the cause if worth fighting the first thing Greg will do is raise questions in the house of commons/Lords. You should embrace this attack

#26 leighminers

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:40 AM

I don't know what mr chairman is trying to achieve by trying to drag Leigh miners into this, why would miners want Leigh east to fold? Or his he just trying to make Leigh Miners look like the bad guys when really they are nothing to do with the situation and im sure are all backing their neighbours and hope they get justice after being well and truly shafted over the last few years.

The town needs two amateur rugby league clubs doing well in the NCL Premier because this year I don't think their as been the same buzz around town between the two clubs. And what would Miners gain a few players here and there at different ages, they wouldn't get them all because some lads don't want to play for Leigh miners like some lads don't want to play for Leigh east.

If any of the idiots from Wigan council (NOT LEIGH MINERS) think that the town of Leigh would be better with one amatuer rugby league club they seriously need the heads seeing to! Ask any player from either club which game they most look forward to and the answer will always be East v Miners Street of origin, hopefully all the problems that Leigh east are having at the moment will get sorted and the great rivalry will continue for many years to come.

#27 kaykie

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:37 AM

I don't know what mr chairman is trying to achieve by trying to drag Leigh miners into this, why would miners want Leigh east to fold? Or his he just trying to make Leigh Miners look like the bad guys when really they are nothing to do with the situation and im sure are all backing their neighbours and hope they get justice after being well and truly shafted over the last few years.

The town needs two amateur rugby league clubs doing well in the NCL Premier because this year I don't think their as been the same buzz around town between the two clubs. And what would Miners gain a few players here and there at different ages, they wouldn't get them all because some lads don't want to play for Leigh miners like some lads don't want to play for Leigh east.

If any of the idiots from Wigan council (NOT LEIGH MINERS) think that the town of Leigh would be better with one amatuer rugby league club they seriously need the heads seeing to! Ask any player from either club which game they most look forward to and the answer will always be East v Miners Street of origin, hopefully all the problems that Leigh east are having at the moment will get sorted and the great rivalry will continue for many years to come.

totally agree with u, its absolutely nothing to do with miners, theres alot of good people at miners and just because lord peter smith is loosly linked to miners doesnt mean its anything to do with miner's and we at east should be thankful for the support miners are giving towards east and not fetching their name into it

#28 Muriel

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:03 AM

Leigh East needs the support from anyone and everyone ,

 

I've had a few calls today from ex players who are saying they wouldn't be where they are today if it hadn't been for Leigh East, and pledging support.

 

That's the kind of club we are and so are Leigh Miners, Pats, Jude's, Ince ,,,,,, its great to see the amount of support we are getting :clapping:  :danced: THANKYOU.



#29 jimmyyon

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:14 PM

I wonder how much unpaid council tax is owed to Wigan MBC, and is this an easy option to recuperate finances.

My council are owed over £9million for 2011/12 and we're feeling the cuts



#30 once a ref always a ref

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 04:05 PM

Wigan Met's answer to a freedom of information request:-

 

 Q. What was the total of unpaid Council Tax in 2012?

 

  A. £51,272,800.12

 

Q. How much of the unpaid Council Tax was passed to bailiffs for recovery?

 

 A. £3,351,160.29

 

Q. How much money did bailiffs manage to recover?

 

 A. £155,669.10

 

 

 Some mind boggling figures there, if you take a polulation of about 300,000 it is £170 per head uncollected.


Edited by once a ref always a ref, 12 June 2013 - 04:09 PM.

I don't believe in reincarnation but I did in a previous life

#31 mr chairman

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:30 PM

Mind boggling not the word it's scandalous

#32 TheDuke

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 06:20 PM

Has anyone in Wigan actually paid council tax!

 

On a more serious note now isnt the time for clubs to be bagging each other, the amateur game should unite around Leigh East, cant the NCL offer any assistance to protect a member club?



#33 mr chairman

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 07:46 PM

Yes Trevor hunt as rang me and he as done a piece in the Wigan paper . He is contacting david gent to see what they can do , so well done the ncl

#34 Muriel

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:17 AM

I have also Contacted the Rugby League ,  and been given a couple of names of people who should be contacting us, to offer support !!!!!



#35 mr chairman

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

I have also Contacted the Rugby League ,  and been given a couple of names of people who should be contacting us, to offer support !!!!!


Leigh East response to Wigan Council’s Response

We make this statement in response to the Council response, posted on their website.

1. The Council have implied that they have made attempts to negotiate with us, but to no avail. We have tried throughout our occupation to come to an agreement with the Council and have made numerous concessions. We have had many meetings with Council Officers, LSV executives and Andy Burnham and have never refused to attend any of these meetings. Just over two years ago, following meetings between Andy Burnham, our solicitor Karen Baker and the Borough Solicitor, Kevin Lawson, proposals were put forward by us that involved our increasing the amount we would pay by way of maintenance costs to the building. The Council never accepted these proposals.

2. The only meetings we have cancelled have been meetings with the LSV to discuss the handover of the bar, as we see little point in discussing operational issues concerning the take over of the bar, when we do not see how we can operate without one. We have however arranged to meet with LSV personnel next week, so that we discuss the position with them generally and make them aware of operational difficulties which will inevitably come to light, should Wigan Council persist with the bar and function room takeover.

3. Whilst re-stating their position regarding government cuts, the Council have not offered us any reassurance as to how we can afford to continue without the bar and function room. The reality is that the bar and function room pays for the training costs and should we lose that income that money can only be met by rugby subscriptions. The training costs last year were £21,500. Those costs will need to be met from subs. Should we lose the pitch hire subsidy in 3 years time, we will have to find another £21,000. This will need to be met from subs. We have calculated that every additional £6000 that needs to be raised by us will result in a £1 increase in subscription levels. When viewed that way, the problem becomes immediately apparent. The Council will not debate this issue and state that any shortfalls that we will suffer are for the club to address.

4. Finally, we re-iterate that we have made proposals to pay significant sums toward the running costs of the building. These have been rejected out of hand and no counter–proposals have been put forward by the Council.

#36 mr chairman

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:01 AM

Not that clever are they

I have just read the twitter reply from WMBC in which they state that it is the Councils intention to put Leigh Sporting Village PLC in charge of operating the bar in the club.
This statement has clearly been made by persons who have no idea of how the Licensing regulations work.
Leigh East Social Club operates under a Club Premises certificate ( formally a Registration Certificate ). This is not a Licence and the premises are not Licenced Premises. It is therefore not possible for WMBC or anybody else for that matter to take over the bar as it stands. In order to do this the Council will have to apply for a Licence in order to sell alcohol from these premises. Leigh East do not sell alcohol they supply it to their members and guests under the provision of a Registration Certificate. You need a licence to sell alcohol and Leigh East do not have one.

In order to obtain a licence public notices have to be given, ie local press, and other legal proccedures followed. This is to allow the public to make objections if they wish. The club would then become a pub in effect if the Councils application was successful. There is a new pub less that 200 yards from the club, a hotel and several licensed bars in the stadium why do we need another licensed premises in this small area.
I can certainly foresee several hundred at the very least lodging objections to this application.

I also see that the Council, in their reply, making reference to the club making substantial annual profits. I also read somewhere amongst the numerous posts on this topic that the Council advised the club that it should be run on a commercial basis. A registered club cannot be run on a commercial basis as this is one of the qualifications needed for registration. All the club proceeds belong to the members of the club, to be used for the benefit of the members and it is for the membership to decide how this is done but it is not to be done for commercial purposes. The way the proceeds are used is of no concern to WMBC or anybody else.

Leigh Sporting Village Plc could not obtain a Registration certificate to run this bar and they could not use the certificate of Leigh Easts. As I said they would have to obtain a licence.

This decision has been taken by persons who have no idea idea of the licensing regulatuions in relation to registered clubs. It is not a sensible decision in my opinion and one that could prove costly for the ratepayers of Leigh and Wigan. I can see very few, if any, locals using the bar if the council succeed with his application

#37 Spidey

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:15 AM

Not that clever are they....

 

.....This decision has been taken by persons who have no idea idea of the licensing regulatuions in relation to registered clubs. It is not a sensible decision in my opinion and one that could prove costly for the ratepayers of Leigh and Wigan. I can see very few, if any, locals using the bar if the council succeed with his application

 

Anybody involved with Members club should know this, also the Council regulates the registrations in the borough they are assigned (or they do in my borough anyway)

 

Anyway, good luck with your fight



#38 mr chairman

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:57 PM

Update on meeting with andy Burnham

A very productive meeting with andy , he listened to our side of the story and took all the facts down , andy promised Leigh east that he mediate with Wigan council and get the best deal possible for our club . He understands what the bar means to us and wants us to stay at the Lsv . I feel a lot happier after the meeting , at least someone in power understands us now and is willing to speak for us . Well done andy Burnham

#39 TaxiEgg

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:09 PM

You see Keith even a MIners parent is prepared to fight your corner .

#40 Scrumhalf7

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 12:43 AM

My IQ is slightly higher than 7 I am qualified to Masters Degree level thankyou....

 

If the case presented by East was honest then I would champion the cause massively - Leigh needs two successful amateur rugby league teams - but present a honest case....you all know that isn't the truth -political point scoring and using the youth set up as a hostage.... 

 

I hope you succeed in fighting the battle alone - you wont though if you take the stance that you are - a bit like when your transport didn't turn up / broke down at Skirlaugh...... it didn't did it.... look at yourselves before throwing stones at me or the MIGHTY Leigh Miners - a couple of "friendlies" would go a long way to helping you but tell the truth - you never owned your own ground ever.... you were never masters of your own destiny....you were never the most successful amateur league club going and having a go at the council and Andy Burnham MP (one of the most sincere honourable people I have ever met in my life) is not the way forward.....

 

Grow a pair be honest and we will all pull behind you.... ALL of us....good luck.... don't use kids - it is cheap....

 

 






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