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Should the plug be pulled on Salford?


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#41 Ackroman

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:48 PM

There are still fairly fresh threads on the good ol' Doctor being good for RL. Not for me I'm afraid but the thing is Salford are big enough to survive without him, one way or another.

 

However London have no "club", they have a licence and they have set themselves up like a modern day service business to deliver it. Therefore without a licence they are nothing. They are a vacuous franchise with no roots and they only have themselves to blame.

 

Just to be absolutely clear (see what I did there?) this is not a point being made between expansion and heartland because frankly the Bronco's have had plenty of time to create a heartland in London.



#42 SE4Wire

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:54 PM

I can't believe any one takes the MEN comic seriously. Barker just lifts stuff from the internet and then twists it to fit his agenda.

 

The doc has appointed a businessman to run the club from next season, he has said that he believes he is the man to change the fortunes and as many like to remind us he isn't the only owner of the club/

 

Clubs will fail on their own without plus being pulled. :)

 

 

By the sounds of it he's going to have it split in two, the business side led my great business men and the rugby side led by a great coach.  Best men for the job rather than a jack of all trades?  Waht a farce!

 

Then he apparently said that if he couldn't deliver success (no time frame) he would leave.  What an overnight sensation, if after putting the best resources in place and improving the management and structures the club is going backwards he won't deem it worthwhile carrying on, not exactly a radical opinion.



#43 Saintslass

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:59 PM

Then he apparently said that if he couldn't deliver success (no time frame) he would leave.  What an overnight sensation, if after putting the best resources in place and improving the management and structures the club is going backwards he won't deem it worthwhile carrying on, not exactly a radical opinion.

Deliberate misquote by the Manchester Evening News there.  He cleared it up before the match on Monday night.  He restated that he was in for the long haul.


Edited by Saintslass, 11 June 2013 - 12:59 PM.


#44 Viking Warrior

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:02 PM

if kashkow told me it was tuesday i'd have to check the callender
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#45 Northern Sol

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:23 PM

There are still fairly fresh threads on the good ol' Doctor being good for RL. Not for me I'm afraid but the thing is Salford are big enough to survive without him, one way or another.

 

However London have no "club", they have a licence and they have set themselves up like a modern day service business to deliver it. Therefore without a licence they are nothing. They are a vacuous franchise with no roots and they only have themselves to blame.

 

Just to be absolutely clear (see what I did there?) this is not a point being made between expansion and heartland because frankly the Bronco's have had plenty of time to create a heartland in London.

Indeed.

 

Parky was doing the "How dare you criticise Crusaders! What about Salford / Wakey line?" a few years back - I told him that both Salford and Wakey would still be here in 5 years' time but Crusaders wouldn't.

 

Then we had "Why are you criticising Broncos? - look at Widnes" last year to which my reply was "Widnes will do better next year, I doubt that Broncos will".

 

It's 2013 now, fast forward 5 years, anyone seriously think that Broncos and Salford will be in comparable positions in 2018. Even if the doctor walks away, I'd still say that Salford will be around if not in the top division then in touching distance of it but I'd be surprised if Broncos were anywhere near. 



#46 SE4Wire

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:40 PM

Deliberate misquote by the Manchester Evening News there.  He cleared it up before the match on Monday night.  He restated that he was in for the long haul.

 

Yeah that was my inferrence, sorry didn't mean to cast aspersions on Dr. Koukash.  My reason for mentioning the no time frame is that I assumed he meant after a long time but that the MEN were trying to weasel his words to make it sound like he meant next year rather than next decade.

 

Personally, I think the good Doctor is great.



#47 Ackroman

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:57 PM

Indeed.

 

Parky was doing the "How dare you criticise Crusaders! What about Salford / Wakey line?" a few years back - I told him that both Salford and Wakey would still be here in 5 years' time but Crusaders wouldn't.

 

Then we had "Why are you criticising Broncos? - look at Widnes" last year to which my reply was "Widnes will do better next year, I doubt that Broncos will".

 

It's 2013 now, fast forward 5 years, anyone seriously think that Broncos and Salford will be in comparable positions in 2018. Even if the doctor walks away, I'd still say that Salford will be around if not in the top division then in touching distance of it but I'd be surprised if Broncos were anywhere near. 

 

The way to grow RL is to increase the heartland of RL through expansion and expansion by any scientific definition is normally achieved through an increase in energy. In the case of RL the energy is a combination of cash for a good team and a long term investment in inclusion and accessibility.

 

A heartland club will have a bit of the first but bags of the second and third requirements. It seems an expansion clubs gets the first for a while in the hope that the other 2 fall into place quite quickly.

 

In all the above cases a bit of cash was expected to go a long way to covering all 3 needs. What London have done is to focus the cash purely on the delivery of the contractual needs of their licence. The thing is with Crusaders, they had even less cash but ironically they are going places developing the 2nd and 3rd requirements. It won't be long before they can claim to be a heartland club.


Edited by Ackroman, 11 June 2013 - 01:58 PM.


#48 Brisvegan

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:05 PM

Indeed.

 

Parky was doing the "How dare you criticise Crusaders! What about Salford / Wakey line?" a few years back - I told him that both Salford and Wakey would still be here in 5 years' time but Crusaders wouldn't.

 

Then we had "Why are you criticising Broncos? - look at Widnes" last year to which my reply was "Widnes will do better next year, I doubt that Broncos will".

 

It's 2013 now, fast forward 5 years, anyone seriously think that Broncos and Salford will be in comparable positions in 2018. Even if the doctor walks away, I'd still say that Salford will be around if not in the top division then in touching distance of it but I'd be surprised if Broncos were anywhere near. 

Or, put another way, "I told you so and I'm on such a roll you are all on notice I'll be doing so again when London Broncos fold". The point is their are only really 5 superleague clubs of whom no irony can be attached to the appellation "top division". That's the issue for Superleague and it's just plain mean to snipe at the likes of London, as if there's a phalanx of cashed up clubs waiting in the wings that will spend all their salary cap, bring thousands of new fans and deliver modern new stadia.



#49 Northern Sol

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:13 PM

Or, put another way, "I told you so and I'm on such a roll you are all on notice I'll be doing so again when London Broncos fold". The point is their are only really 5 superleague clubs of whom no irony can be attached to the appellation "top division". That's the issue for Superleague and it's just plain mean to snipe at the likes of London, as if there's a phalanx of cashed up clubs waiting in the wings that will spend all their salary cap, bring thousands of new fans and deliver modern new stadia.

 

I don't think Broncos will fold, I just don't think they'll be a top division side for much longer. And yeah I don't mind pointing out that I was right in my predictions. I'm not always right but I get most things. And I certainly don't mind pointing out that some people arguing the case against Salford don't seem to have got anything right ever.

 

It's not having a go at Broncos, it's having an opinion on which sides should be awarded licences (if we are still doing that in 2014). Salford should be in and London should be out.



#50 Middleman

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:13 PM

if kashkow told me it was tuesday i'd have to check the callender

 

 calendar or colander ??

I would check your Colander first  you might find your argument is full of holes .. ;)

 

 

It's Tuesday ..

 

I recall Widnes being the subject of debate after big losses last season , and that was after 4 years of support by their rich backer , 1 year on with a few more key signings Widnes are a different proposition , and it would be great if they made the top 8 at the expense of a traditional ( top 8 ) side .

 

Safe to say Salford are in a bad place at the minute moral wise on the playing side as Noble wrestles to get a cohesive performance out many in the a squad who know they'll be flirted


Edited by Middleman, 11 June 2013 - 02:31 PM.


#51 Northern Sol

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:14 PM

The way to grow RL is to increase the heartland of RL through expansion and expansion by any scientific definition is normally achieved through an increase in energy. In the case of RL the energy is a combination of cash for a good team and a long term investment in inclusion and accessibility.

 

A heartland club will have a bit of the first but bags of the second and third requirements. It seems an expansion clubs gets the first for a while in the hope that the other 2 fall into place quite quickly.

 

In all the above cases a bit of cash was expected to go a long way to covering all 3 needs. What London have done is to focus the cash purely on the delivery of the contractual needs of their licence. The thing is with Crusaders, they had even less cash but ironically they are going places developing the 2nd and 3rd requirements. It won't be long before they can claim to be a heartland club.

I'm not sure that I would agree with your definitions of the requirements for success.



#52 WSCR

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:39 PM

if kashkow told me it was tuesday i'd have to check the callender

 

if kashkow told me it was tuesday i'd have to check the callender

If a certain Widnes fan told me he would run naked up Deansgate if Salford ever got into a new stadium I would give it a miss.



#53 hindle xiii

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:40 PM

Deliberate misquote by the Manchester Evening News there.  He cleared it up before the match on Monday night.  He restated that he was in for the long haul.

If its the bit I think you mean, the TV on the floor, Salford in the doldrums stuff, I'm pretty sure that was pre-season. Probably Boots N All. I don't remember any other interviews pre-game.

 

What I did find interesting about that little peice I think you're referring to is when he answers the question from Angela Powers, he actually shakes his head while saying yes.


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#54 Wanderer

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:46 PM

What I did find interesting about that little peice I think you're referring to is when he answers the question from Angela Powers, he actually shakes his head while saying yes.

 

What was the question?



#55 hindle xiii

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:53 PM

What was the question?

Something similar to "are you in this for the long run?". I'm not claiming his little head shake as fact, but involuntary movements like that can help at least determine how people really think; biting/pursing lips for refusal, arm crossing for defensive, things like that.


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#56 Viking Warrior

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:18 PM

If a certain Widnes fan told me he would run naked up Deansgate if Salford ever got into a new stadium I would give it a miss.

i admitted defeat on that one......................
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



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#57 Northern Sol

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:19 PM

Something similar to "are you in this for the long run?". I'm not claiming his little head shake as fact, but involuntary movements like that can help at least determine how people really think; biting/pursing lips for refusal, arm crossing for defensive, things like that.

True but those things vary between culture. 



#58 Viking Warrior

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:24 PM

calendar or colander ??
I would check your Colander first  you might find your argument is full of holes .. ;)
 
 
It's Tuesday ..
 
I recall Widnes being the subject of debate after big losses last season , and that was after 4 years of support by their rich backer , 1 year on with a few more key signings Widnes are a different proposition , and it would be great if they made the top 8 at the expense of a traditional ( top 8 ) side .
 
Safe to say Salford are in a bad place at the minute moral wise on the playing side as Noble wrestles to get a cohesive performance out many in the a squad who know they'll be flirted

i just have reservations about koukash and his commitment to salford long term, i hope that he will be in for the long haul and not just as a publicity stunt. i was gutted for john wilkinson when he stood down after being the cornerstone of the club for many many years. onwards and upwards mate and hope to see the red devils challenging for the top eight next season.
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#59 HKR AWAY DAYS

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 05:38 PM

I am starting to believe that a lot of people (not necessarily on these forums) think that they can genuinely justify their '<insert team name> OUT!' argument on the simple basis of small attendance, without due consideration for many other factors.



#60 bedlam breakout

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:28 PM

the dr will splash the cash for next season- not much point in this one now- hock-chase-Dobson  etc will all be reds in 2014


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