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London Broncos time to be very afraid


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#21 Northern Sol

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:22 AM

Because, oddly, I take offence when I see supposed rugby league fans dancing at the demise of other clubs.

I take no pleasure from the fact that Broncos are on the way down and I think predictions of their demise are premature.

 

The game as a whole needs a more mature approach to expansion; building from the ground up. Unfortunately it has generally go down the "back of a fag packet" route whereby seemingly promising developments like Crusaders are rushed and then ruined. Those people who could see the train wreck that they would become were instantly labelled "anti-expansion" and oddly "anti-Welsh" by forum trolls when all they really wanted was to see sustainable growth. 

 

The lunatic expansionist fringe then went to go and find a new toy to play with but instead of reflecting on the failure of Crusaders and thinking "Perhaps the RFL got it badly wrong and the gradualists were right" decided that "Crusaders were never wanted and were sabotaged by anti-expansionist flatties who took great joy in their demise". I see that this tradition is being continued with Broncos.

 

Personally I just want to have a sensible debate about expansion and the mantra that "Sky aren't interested in RL without London" is something that prevents this so something that chips away at this is good for the game in my view.

 

FWIW I think Broncos will survive but not as a SL club and I think Wellsy's idea that we need four championship clubs in London in the north, east, south and west to create a sense of rivalry and build up the game slowly is the right way forward. I daresay you'll ignore this and focus on my apparent glee.



#22 Northern Sol

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:24 AM

personally i think it will be a sad day for the game if broncos did pull out of super league, they have been a beacon for the game in the south of england for around 43 years (in one guise or another)

33?



#23 nadera78

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:25 AM

It's all been said on here a thousand times already; some people think a top-flight London club is important for the game, some people don't. None of us can say definitively one way or another, but I guess we'll find out in the years to come.

 

What I do know for certain is the following:

1) that a London club in the Championship will never, ever grow strong enough to gain promotion to SL and then stay there. We tried doing that through the 1980's and 90's and it never once looked like working.

2) having a championship club down here with an RFL-backed Academy will do nothing for this club, but may provide one or two players for northern clubs, and will undoubtedly become a finishing school for RU clubs.

3) whatever polite noises people make publicly on here, there will be many, many self-righteous, parochial, small-minded northerners celebrating the demise of this club.

 

Those three things I can absolutely guarantee.


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#24 gingerjon

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:26 AM

I take no pleasure from the fact that Broncos are on the way down and I think predictions of their demise are premature.

 

The game as a whole needs a more mature approach to expansion; building from the ground up. Unfortunately it has generally go down the "back of a fag packet" route whereby seemingly promising developments like Crusaders are rushed and then ruined. Those people who could see the train wreck that they would become were instantly labelled "anti-expansion" and oddly "anti-Welsh" by forum trolls when all they really wanted was to see sustainable growth. 

 

The lunatic expansionist fringe then went to go and find a new toy to play with but instead of reflecting on the failure of Crusaders and thinking "Perhaps the RFL got it badly wrong and the gradualists were right" decided that "Crusaders were never wanted and were sabotaged by anti-expansionist flatties who took great joy in their demise". I see that this tradition is being continued with Broncos.

 

Personally I just want to have a sensible debate about expansion and the mantra that "Sky aren't interested in RL without London" is something that prevents this so something that chips away at this is good for the game in my view.

 

FWIW I think Broncos will survive but not as a SL club and I think Wellsy's idea that we need four championship clubs in London in the north, east, south and west to create a sense of rivalry and build up the game slowly is the right way forward. I daresay you'll ignore this and focus on my apparent glee.

Apologies for the over-reaction then.

 

I do however think that your life on here will be easier if you put Parksider on ignore.  I know I find the threads make a lot more sense now.


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#25 ckn

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:27 AM

I've never said that London were a requirement for Sky.  

 

I have said, and do still believe, that there will be major implications for the development of players without a local top-level professional side.

On part 1, I've said it but not that bluntly.  Rugby league in Britain, forget France for the moment, without a SL side further south than Warrington (soft southerners that they are) would be very damaging to the sport as a professional image.  If it were me, I'd be going out of my way to save London, if it's good enough for the RFL to buy Odsal then it's good enough for them to go out of their way to support London.  Rugby league won't die without London, Sky won't abandon us, but it will be that bit more difficult to persuade people that we're credible.  Sky couldn't care about how much we develop France, it adds nothing to their revenues.

 

If they dropped out of SL then they'll have a very difficult time surviving.  2nd tier clubs don't attract big investments, especially if they have nothing to call "home" and have a nomad reputation of not sticking with things, rightly or wrongly.

 

On part 2, you're absolutely right.  Where's the development path for those youngsters coming through in London and the south east?  A young promising player living in London is highly unlikely to shift to up north for a chance at a moderate pay packet if they end up as one of the few on very good salaries, they could stay down south and earn the same at a middling union club.  Regardless of what some people snobbishly think of with London, they are a massive beacon (good word Viking Warrior) for youngsters in the game playing at the lower tier clubs in London and the South and it would be a painful long-term loss to the game.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#26 Viking Warrior

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:28 AM

33?

oops...
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



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#27 sweaty craiq

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:31 AM

Surely a partnership with a soccer club located close to a big amateur set up is the best way to grow a 'real' club in the capital. Our target market is more soccer fan than ru fan.



#28 Chronicler of Chiswick

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:31 AM

If we did drop out at the end of this season (remember that Stevo does know a bit about what goes on there) then it would make sense for SL to run with 13 next season and wait on the clubs deciding on how they want the game organised after 2014. Clubs who want to apply for a licence would be planning on moving up then, and could have problems with an earlier move.



#29 gingerjon

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:32 AM

FWIW I think Broncos will survive but not as a SL club and I think Wellsy's idea that we need four championship clubs in London in the north, east, south and west to create a sense of rivalry and build up the game slowly is the right way forward. I daresay you'll ignore this and focus on my apparent glee.

I think London can sustain a Super League club.  What it can't be expected to do is sustain a basket case like the Broncos have become.  I honestly can't think of a single thing the club has done right in the past five years other than massively improve in its development of local players.

 

I don't buy into the 'we need X championship' clubs.  Obviously we need a pyramid and we need as many well-run and sustainable clubs as possible.  If we end up with Skolars in Haringey, Broncos in Barnet and Hemel in Hemel then that's a straight line from north London to northern home counties.  It's not what anyone would have come up with a pins-on-a-map approach but it might actually make sense in a way that (say) championship clubs over an hour apart from each other in Haringey, Leytonstone, Morden and Acton might not.


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#30 Spidey

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:33 AM

SL side further south than Warrington (soft southerners that they are) 


Erm  Widnes are the most southern team :)  Don't associate us with those Northerners down the road



#31 Doghead

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:34 AM

just watched the show, Stevo was put in his place after the remark he made about the club folding by one of the panelist, he said the two owners of the club, will be going to Barnet with the club, and that stadium rules will not apply come the new league structure.

To say Londoners don't take to Rugby League is unforgiving, what you are saying a massive part of the country is a "no go area" for the game.



#32 Larry the Leit

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:38 AM

To say Londoners don't take to Rugby League is unforgiving, what you are saying a massive part of the country is a "no go area" for the game.

 

Yep, one with a thriving amateur and junior scene.



#33 ckn

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:41 AM


Erm  Widnes are the most southern team :)  Don't associate us with those Northerners down the road

Yep, you're right, by half a mile or so, my apologies!  Widnes... soft southerners...


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#34 shrek

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:43 AM

I'd be gutted to see London go - many happy memories from visits as an away fan and as a neutral.

 

Can't help but thing the proposed league structure with the split after 11 games, whilst not being a fan of it personally could be a real shot in the arm for a club like London.  They still get the glamour of some of the big names coming to town for part of the season whilst also getting a significant portion were by they can perhaps be more competitive and gain some sort of momentum from which to go forward with.



#35 Southern Softie

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:50 AM

Aside from the potential damage to the game if the Broncos did drop out of SL (which i believe would be very significant), I'd get slaughtered at work by the union fans. It's hard enough as it is trying to legitimise rugby league as anything other than a Northern sport. This would be a nail in the coffin of any of my arguments.

#36 marklaspalmas

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:54 AM

Aside from the potential damage to the game if the Broncos did drop out of SL (which i believe would be very significant), I'd get slaughtered at work by the union fans. It's hard enough as it is trying to legitimise rugby league as anything other than a Northern sport. This would be a nail in the coffin of any of my arguments.

 

You seem to have confused 'super league' and 'rugby league'. There are ample examples of nationwide RL outside the top flight of RL, are there not?


 

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#37 RS

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:59 AM

How do you know that Stevo is 'very well informed' about the London club?  All it sounded like to me was his usual bluster.  His phrasing suggested speculation is all he was indulging in.  Stevo also spoke on Back Chat about a list of players Dr Koukash had said he wanted for Salford and was his usual mocking self about it.  That list included Gareth Hock.  Dr Koukash has recently emailed Paramatta Eels (confirmed by the club) to say neither he nor the club nor any agent had discussed Gareth Hock coming to Salford instead of the Eels. Yet the way Stevo spoke on Back Chat you'd think that Koukash had declared it from the rooftops.  What has actually happened is that people have speculated on Internet forums and Stevo has taken that gossip as gospel.
 
Hughes said in public at the last round of licences that he would only guarantee his support of London until the end of this licensing period.  I think it would be more worthwhile awaiting his decision rather than listening to Stevo's garbage.

Sorry I made the assumption that those on here would be well aware of Stevo's close friendship with London's owner Hughes and therefore may well be very well informed. I would be surprised if Stevo sounded the death knell of London if there wasn't something in it.

#38 Southern Softie

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:02 AM

You seem to have confused 'super league' and 'rugby league'. There are ample examples of nationwide RL outside the top flight of RL, are there not?


Absolutely, but SL is the only full time professional league, and as such, is viewed (by the union fans where I work at least) as the benchmark of the "spread" of the game. I don't necessarily subscribe to this view, but those from outside the game that I know, do.

#39 Kenny Bania

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:03 AM

How do you know that Stevo is 'very well informed' about the London club?  All it sounded like to me was his usual bluster.

Stevo is certainly full of bluster but he's also very close to David Hughes.

#40 ckn

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:03 AM

You seem to have confused 'super league' and 'rugby league'. There are ample examples of nationwide RL outside the top flight of RL, are there not?

There are some dyed-in-the-wool rugby league fans who think there's nothing below SL level never mind those outside of the sport.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway





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