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London Broncos time to be very afraid


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180 replies to this topic

#41 gingerjon

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:05 AM

You seem to have confused 'super league' and 'rugby league'. There are ample examples of nationwide RL outside the top flight of RL, are there not?

 

My understanding is, and I'm happy to be corrected, that the conference level clubs that have done best at producing young players (outside the 'heartlands') are the ones with London Broncos near by.


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#42 Northern Sol

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:21 AM

I think London can sustain a Super League club.  What it can't be expected to do is sustain a basket case like the Broncos have become.  I honestly can't think of a single thing the club has done right in the past five years other than massively improve in its development of local players.

 

I don't buy into the 'we need X championship' clubs.  Obviously we need a pyramid and we need as many well-run and sustainable clubs as possible.  If we end up with Skolars in Haringey, Broncos in Barnet and Hemel in Hemel then that's a straight line from north London to northern home counties.  It's not what anyone would have come up with a pins-on-a-map approach but it might actually make sense in a way that (say) championship clubs over an hour apart from each other in Haringey, Leytonstone, Morden and Acton might not.

Time will tell. I suppose from an attendance point-of-view it might be better to have a cluster. Skolars / Hemel / Oxford games get decent crowds.

 

I'm just thinking that a lot of the development work has gone on in East and South London and yet we have "no pin".



#43 Larry the Leit

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:26 AM

Time will tell. I suppose from an attendance point-of-view it might be better to have a cluster. Skolars / Hemel / Oxford games get decent crowds.

 

I'm just thinking that a lot of the development work has gone on in East and South London and yet we have "no pin".

 

What's the travel time between Hemel and Oxford?  It's got to be the at least 90 minutes, or worse.


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#44 foozler

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:28 AM

I simply cannot see a better alternative than the Broncos playing in whatever division best suits them, drawing on largely local talent, with the RFL making sure there are at least 5 events in London every year. Far more people would watch the Aussie Champions play any northern SL team than would ever watch the Broncos.
Very few people have any affinity for London as a place, and even fewer of the people who have been exposed to RL down here do. But there are enough people who would turn up for a London magic week end, or other games at Wembley. Last time I looked most of the biggest crowds for internationals have been darn sarf, so there is an awareness of the game.
A vibrant London SL team would be a great thing, but that is unlikely to happen any time soon. But there is still plenty of interest in the game in the capital.

 

I think this is very true.

 

Yes putting on more big events in London would probably do more for the profile of the sport in the medium term than having a London based SL side. 

 

Undoubtedly Broncos haven't helped themselves over the last few years and I believe there is a feeling at the RFL that the natural place for a London side right now is in the Championship. There seems to be a decent production line of players coming thru in the South East and having a presence in the Championship leagues is a clear development pathway for players from that part of the country. Given that more and more SL clubs will be looking at the lower leagues to find value signings who are the next Walmsely or Hill should not mean that the lack of a London SL side hinders talent development.

 

It might actually be a blessing in disguise.



#45 gingerjon

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:28 AM

What's the travel time between Hemel and Oxford?  It's got to be the at least 90 minutes, or worse.

 

AA has it at just over an hour.


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#46 Larry the Leit

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:29 AM

AA has it at just over an hour.

 

Ha ha, not on your life if there's a sniff of traffic.

 

That stretch by Rickmansworth is a complete nightmare!

 

Just done it between the grounds, 1 hour and 6 minutes.   


Edited by Larry the Leit, 12 June 2013 - 10:32 AM.

The Unicorn is not a Goose,

#47 Northern Sol

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:37 AM

I like the London magic idea. It would get more publicity than Broncos do.



#48 Northern Sol

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:43 AM

Apologies for the over-reaction then.

 

I do however think that your life on here will be easier if you put Parksider on ignore.  I know I find the threads make a lot more sense now.

Thank you.

 

I'd prefer that Parksiders' destructive views did not exist but I think if the game is ever going to progress some the cliches / mantras need to be taken on. I'm sure that the people who run the game do not read totalrl but RL journalists do and they help to form opinions within the game. Fortunately "stick a pin-in-a-map approach" seems to be much less popular than it was 5 or 6 years ago and myths like "Rugby league is such an exciting game that anyone who watches one game will be converted" seem to have died a death. This is progress.



#49 The Parksider

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:44 AM

I do however think that your life on here will be easier if you put Parksider on ignore.

He has no need I put him on ignore several months ago.

#50 Ackroman

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:44 AM

Londoners like events.

If the Challenge Cup can be consolidated with the Magic Weekend, Grand Final, and the World Club challenge the RFL just might be able to legitimately cal London the Capital of RL and grow the game that way.

It then takes pressure off London (insert name) to build the profile from SL.

#51 Northern Sol

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:47 AM

He has no need I put him on ignore several months ago.

That won't stop me highlighting your misuse of statistics to justify "pins-in-a-map". We need a real debate about how to get a sustainable SL club from London; not one where "What about Salford?" is the answer to every probing question.



#52 The Parksider

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:47 AM

Rugby league in Britain, forget France for the moment, without a SL side further south than Warrington (soft southerners that they are) would be very damaging to the sport as a professional image.  If it were me, I'd be going out of my way to save London. Rugby league won't die without London, Sky won't abandon us, but it will be that bit more difficult to persuade people that we're credible.   

A young promising player living in London is highly unlikely to shift to up north for a chance at a moderate pay packet if they end up as one of the few on very good salaries, they could stay down south and earn the same at a middling union club.  Regardless of what some people snobbishly think of with London, they are a massive beacon (good word Viking Warrior) for youngsters in the game playing at the lower tier clubs in London and the South and it would be a painful long-term loss to the game.

My views exactly.

Edited by The Parksider, 12 June 2013 - 10:51 AM.


#53 ckn

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:52 AM

My views exactly.

Moderators and admins can't be put on ignore :P


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#54 Northern Sol

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:57 AM

Moderators and admins can't be put on ignore :P

Both myself and Parky are both mods. I'm a mod in the NCL forum (not a lot of work tbh).



#55 ckn

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:59 AM

Both myself and Parky are both mods. I'm a mod in the NCL forum (not a lot of work tbh).

Ah, sorry, should have been more specific.  Moderating rights only exist for the forum you're appointed to, it only overrides ignores on those forums.  That said, there have been a few big changes to the forum recently, might not work quite like that any more.

 

Also, sorry for taking this off topic.  My fault.  Please keep on topic from here.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#56 Kenny Bania

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:00 AM

What's the travel time between Hemel and Oxford?  It's got to be the at least 90 minutes, or worse.

Did it last year after a football match at Oxford United.

An hour to get out of the Kassam Stadium car park, then an hour home

#57 Ackroman

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:01 AM

My views exactly.

But it doesn't deliver what the typical Londoner wants.

To have a sustainable London based club you have to build a sustainable RL community around you - impossible if you're on the move every other season.
Create an identity - difficult if you are called "London", rather than the "East Ham Dragons" or whatever.
And develop your players. Oh and a fair bit of money from sustainable sources.

On the other end of that is the credibility. ATM it seems no-one takes RL seriously in the capital, it's not big enough a sport and the club is too small. Further by funding a false London SL club you do nothing to create any more credibility than you would by having a sustainable club in the championship. I may actually undermine your plans when the truth is revealed.

There are other ways to build huge credibility for RL in London without chucking money down the drain. It just takes some guts to make strategic rather than tactical decisions.

#58 marklaspalmas

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:04 AM

Absolutely, but SL is the only full time professional league, and as such, is viewed (by the union fans where I work at least) as the benchmark of the "spread" of the game. I don't necessarily subscribe to this view, but those from outside the game that I know, do.

 

Point taken.



#59 Larry the Leit

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:06 AM

Did it last year after a football match at Oxford United.

An hour to get out of the Kassam Stadium car park, then an hour home

 

Fair enough.  I've spent a good chunk of my working life stuck between the two.

 

I'm not sure I'd include Oxford in the London "group" though, it's not really London, but then neither is London.


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#60 The Parksider

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:24 AM

1. But it doesn't deliver what the typical Londoner wants.

2. There are other ways to build huge credibility for RL in London without chucking money down the drain. It just takes some guts to make strategic rather than tactical decisions.

1. Oh come on. There are many RL clubs that don't deliver what the customer wants in traditional places. Inadequate numbers of fans to sustain vibrant RL clubs can be found in York, Rochdale, Widnes and east Hull as well as london. Hemel delivered to 122 fans the other week. HKR lose money on 7,000 fans - why pick on London again?

2. The reason for London in SL has been expplained by various RL luminaries down the years and the fact is those reasons have changed around and we have ended up where we are which was last years RLW article on London that stated their value was in the player production system.

So when you talk about the reason for London Broncos being to "make RL credible" it's not is it. The reason for London Broncos is to expand the player pool.

I've also posted the answer to chucking money down the drain. Do you want me to analyse all the millions of private money and SKY money thrown away on a whole series of traditional and expansion clubs? Why pick on London again??

Neil Hudgell spoke about how he's been chucking his money away on HKR as there is a glass ceiling in Superleague.

The problem is basically SKY provide £90 million for a professional rugby league. That money is pretty much shared out evenly wether your a club with a rich chairman and 10,000 crowds or wether your "important to expanding the player base".

London haven't nearly been killed off because londoners aren't interested. Manchester/Salford people are just as capable of gross disinterest. I posted Londons decent crowd figures 1996-7-8 on the other day. London have not been nearly killed off through just bad management. The game has merely decided it wants London to deliver a player development system and compete in SL but it won't allow the club a penny more than anyone else to achieve that.....

The expectations have been far beyond the practicalities.

Edited by The Parksider, 12 June 2013 - 11:28 AM.





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