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League and Union comparison.........info please?


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#21 Steve May

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:54 PM

Not sure if it's a coincidence or not but Sport England released the latest statistics today on participation.  Here's my summary of the data in their release of those who participate, that is actually play according to their replies to the survey.


Rugby league

2013: 48,700 (year on year decrease of 9600)

2012: 58,100 (note, the Excel sheet on that page has a different date range while the PDF shows year on year)

2008: 82,000

 

Rugby union:

2013: 166,400 (year on year decrease of 31,100)

2012: 197,500

2008: 230,300

 

I suspect these numbers are a lot more accurate than the numbers in the OP, but there must be some kind of problem with them.   I don't think nearly half of all rugby players (both codes) have given up in the last few years.


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#22 Futtocks

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:55 PM


I had a look through the methodology and I can't see where the drop comes from, especially as other sports have seen large rises in participation.


I'm pretty sure I remember reading that the criteria changed as regards how many times a week someone played a sport. It had to be more than once. This, of course, would hit the figures for both codes of Rugby a lot harder than, say Tennis, Football, other less physically tough sports (especially at amateur/youth/casual level). I very much doubt that actual participation numbers have dropped in either code - a whole lot of people just became statistically ineligible.

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#23 ckn

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:56 PM

It doesn't seem likely to me that 2 million people play rugby union in the UK.   That's one person in every 30.    Let's think about an utterly ordinary town like Swindon, which has 209,000 people

 

If 1 person in 30 in Swindon played rugby union, that would mean Swindon had 6,966 rugby players.   To put it another way, Swindon would have 464 rugby union teams.   Now, I know Swindon well and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that there are not 400+ rugby teams in that town.

 

Or any other town.

 

I suspect that number has been pulled out of some prop forwards backside.

I could edit that Wikipedia stat to read that there were only two union players in the UK and they're both exiled Kiwis.  Not a source to be trusted except as a trivia site.


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#24 amh

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:57 PM

What I can read is that this is active participation count rather than membership counts, I think in the early 2000s they used figures supplied by the governing bodies but now do their own research to try to get actual participation figures.  It looks like the methodology has remained unchanged for four years and before then it wasn't too much different.

 
It's just with this CASC thing going on as well as these figures, I'm getting really worried that there's some sort of bad news coming 

http://www.sportandr...ts-clubs-scheme


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#25 ckn

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:01 PM

 
It's just with this CASC thing going on as well as these figures, I'm getting really worried that there's some sort of bad news coming 

http://www.sportandr...ts-clubs-scheme

There's so much abuse of the CASC status that I'm seriously surprised that it hasn't either been closed or tightened up to be almost impossible to use.


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#26 latchford albion

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:10 PM

I could edit that Wikipedia stat to read that there were only two union players in the UK and they're both exiled Kiwis.  Not a source to be trusted except as a trivia site.

Do it, do it :-)

#27 Steve May

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:28 PM

I could edit that Wikipedia stat to read that there were only two union players in the UK and they're both exiled Kiwis.  Not a source to be trusted except as a trivia site.

 

 

The actual source of that number is the IRB.  And presumably therefore, the RFU.

 

As you say, not to be trusted.


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#28 ckn

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:29 PM

The actual source of that number is the IRB.  And presumably therefore, the RFU.

 

As you say, not to be trusted.

Very true :D


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#29 Li0nhead

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:39 PM

One thing i have always wondered with participation numbers is if any sport does double accounting to inflate their numbers.

 

To show what i mean say we have young John Doe a young promising 15 year old from near you.

Is he John Doe: 1 player in the participation figures. 

Or....

 

He Plays for his local armature side: 1 John Doe.

He play also for his school: 2 John Doe.

Hes pretty good so gets to play for his service area: 3 John Doe's

Etc etc so by the time you have done, Young John Doe counts as 4 or five participants. 

 

Does this go on? If not, could we do this to you know inflate things?



#30 Hornetto

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:55 PM

Lots of people watch *nion, but few of them *really* like it (corporate hospitalities, glory-hunting tw@triots, general sports bandwagon-jumpers, establishment wonks, overseas 'barmy armies' and americans*). 

 

Fewer people watch League - but all of them love it!

 

 

 

 

*Non-scientific sample


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#31 Red John

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:02 PM

What people in rugby league fail to realise is that there's a large player pool in union below first team level, veteran's rugby adds a massive number to the total of players who still play identical laws to the first team game.  Rugby league has nothing like this and the adult laws are quite difficult to play as someone 40+.

 

It would be interesting to know how much of the difference in participation rates between League and Union are down to this group. Unfortunately, the statistics aren't broken down by age band. Which is a shame.


Edited by Red John, 13 June 2013 - 05:03 PM.


#32 ckn

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:33 PM

It would be interesting to know how much of the difference in participation rates between League and Union are down to this group. Unfortunately, the statistics aren't broken down by age band. Which is a shame.

There's nothing in this survey (APS7) but last year's (APS6) does have breakdowns by age.  Unfortunately, the rugby league one is a bit less than useful but the union one does have a decent breakdown by age showing nearly 26,000 people between 35 and 54 actively playing the sport at least weekly and 48,000 playing at least monthly.


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#33 dhw

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 06:26 PM

I could edit that Wikipedia stat to read that there were only two union players in the UK and they're both exiled Kiwis.  Not a source to be trusted except as a trivia site.

 

It would be interesting to know how much of the difference in participation rates between League and Union are down to this group. Unfortunately, the statistics aren't broken down by age band. Which is a shame.

The stats is correct but very misleading. It is taken from registered players (not necessarily active registered players). If you break down the figures you get:

 

pre-teenager 1.1 million

teenager 730k

senior 155k

 

 

That is across 1800+ clubs, so the final figure looks about right.



#34 longboard

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 06:34 PM

Lots of people watch *nion, but few of them *really* like it (corporate hospitalities, glory-hunting tw@triots, general sports bandwagon-jumpers, establishment wonks, overseas 'barmy armies' and americans*). 

 

Fewer people watch League - but all of them love it!

 

 

 

 

*Non-scientific sample

 

Good satire. :yes:



#35 ckn

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:31 PM

Independent article on the Sport England release


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#36 ckn

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:02 AM

Two posts deleted to keep the thread on topic.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#37 Red John

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:25 PM

There's nothing in this survey (APS7) but last year's (APS6) does have breakdowns by age.  Unfortunately, the rugby league one is a bit less than useful but the union one does have a decent breakdown by age showing nearly 26,000 people between 35 and 54 actively playing the sport at least weekly and 48,000 playing at least monthly.

 

Indeed. It appears no-one over the age of 26 playes Rugby League.

 

I wonder how the figures are arrived at, and why the union ones appear to be more comprehensive than the league ones.

 

I also wonder whether schoolkids are counted as willing participants, because this possibly also skews the figures in union's favour given that, presumably, more schools play union than league. We played Eton Wall Game once at school (a comprehensive in Salford. I know! What were they thinking?). That doesn't mean I was a willing participant. Or had any idea what we were doing.






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