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the death penalty


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#301 bedlam breakout

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:27 PM

the men who committed the senseless murder of the church organist in hall green will be sentenced in the morning, the coverage of this trial realy magnifies the two different ends of the human scale, his wife has asked for forgiveness for the two men, what a wonderful woman she must be, as for the ####...................
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#302 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:12 AM

the men who committed the senseless murder of the church organist in hall green will be sentenced in the morning, the coverage of this trial realy magnifies the two different ends of the human scale, his wife has asked for forgiveness for the two men, what a wonderful woman she must be, as for the ####...................

Yes we know they are ####
Does the widow of the church organist think they should be executed ? I doubt it... Does not this mean she has values that you despise?
Meanwhile in the united stated 27 death sentences have been invalidated because of the deliberate misinterpretation of forensic evidence by the FBI
What is your motivation in all this? You are in favour of the death penalty and you've made that clear often in a way that disrespects those that disagree with you
Others including me don't agree with you and have said why.


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#303 Severus

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 07:43 AM

Yep, a real stand-up individual, and the perfect poster boy for the nonsensical arguments about life imprisonment being a deterrent.

If this animal had been shot 30 years ago, there would probably still be a few more decent people walking around instead of him.

Ridiculous.

Erm, if this man was sentenced to life imprisonment then he wouldn't have been free to commit subsequent offences. Effectively what you have done is proved the 'nonsensical argument' :lol:

Edit: sorry Shads, I've seemed to have spoilt your fun. ;)

Edited by Severus, 20 July 2013 - 07:44 AM.

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#304 Shadow

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 08:34 AM

This man was sentenced to life imprisonment, in 1992. He was subsequently released, and committed murder again.

 

You don't half look stupid now fella. Send me some more smilie faces.

No one has argued that life imprisonment is more or less of a deterrent than the death penalty. What they have argued is that rather than killing people we'd be better keeping them locked up.

Explain how keeping him locked up would have made the public less safe than executing him.

Or, make some asinine point that won't stand up to even the simplest critical scrutiny.

The choice is yours but I have an idea which way you'll go.


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#305 Severus

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 08:56 AM

This man was sentenced to life imprisonment, in 1992. He was subsequently released, and committed murder again.

 

You don't half look stupid now fella. Send me some more smilie faces.

 

So the problem isn't with the sentencing, its the subsequent lenient treatment. Still not a case for the death penalty.


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#306 Mumby Magic

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:05 AM

Well I think £14 million to keep Ian Brady in is money well spent.

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#307 Johnoco

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:12 AM

No one has argued that life imprisonment is more or less of a deterrent than the death penalty. What they have argued is that rather than killing people we'd be better keeping them locked up.
Explain how keeping him locked up would have made the public less safe than executing him.
Or, make some asinine point that won't stand up to even the simplest critical scrutiny.
The choice is yours but I have an idea which way you'll go.

People argue that the death penalty is wrong and a way to prevent re offending is to lock them up permanently.
But as we can see from *just this one example* that isnt happening. And it's unlikely to change in the future.
In the meantime, *unimportant* innocent people will continue to be murdered by re offenders. If only the guy who got murdered last Saturday had mattered, his name would be known to all for future generations. As it is, it's just tough shat.

#308 Shadow

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:30 AM

People argue that the death penalty is wrong and a way to prevent re offending is to lock them up permanently.
But as we can see from *just this one example* that isnt happening. And it's unlikely to change in the future.
In the meantime, *unimportant* innocent people will continue to be murdered by re offenders. If only the guy who got murdered last Saturday had mattered, his name would be known to all for future generations. As it is, it's just tough shat.

Did I miss the meeting where it was decided the only options were release or death?

How about locking up and not releasing? Could we try that?


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#309 Johnoco

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:50 AM

Did I miss the meeting where it was decided the only options were release or death?
How about locking up and not releasing? Could we try that?

You tell me why that isnt happening. Actually don't because I will tell you. It's because gravy train lawyers and bleeding heart tossers get them released early.

#310 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:59 AM

You tell me why that isnt happening. Actually don't because I will tell you. It's because gravy train lawyers and bleeding heart tossers get them released early.

is the wife of the murdered church organist a 'bleeding heart tosser'?

 

I don't believe in the death penalty does that make me a bleeing heart tosser?

 

comments like that add nothing top a debate that has been done to forgive me, death.


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#311 Johnoco

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 10:23 AM

is the wife of the murdered church organist a 'bleeding heart tosser'?

I don't believe in the death penalty does that make me a bleeing heart tosser?

comments like that add nothing top a debate that has been done to forgive me, death.

The wife of the organist is a Christian. A practising one at that, this is why she forgives the murderers. She thinks god will mete out punishment in the next life. But given there is no afterlife then it's a bit pointless.

I didn't say people who oppose the death penalty are bleeding heart tossers so why try to put that slant on it? I am talking about the #### gravy train lawyers and bleeding heart knobheads who campaign for the release of murderers. Like that dickhead Lord Longford.
Somebody has ok'd the release of this guy, to murder again -twice. Is it' not bringing anything to the debate' to question things like this? Will this person be held to account?

Edited by Johnoco, 20 July 2013 - 10:27 AM.


#312 Griff

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 10:29 AM

Bring back the oubliette, that's what I say.
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#313 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 11:32 AM

The wife of the organist is a Christian. A practising one at that, this is why she forgives the murderers. She thinks god will mete out punishment in the next life. But given there is no afterlife then it's a bit pointless.

I didn't say people who oppose the death penalty are bleeding heart tossers so why try to put that slant on it? I am talking about the #### gravy train lawyers and bleeding heart knobheads who campaign for the release of murderers. Like that dickhead Lord Longford.
Somebody has ok'd the release of this guy, to murder again -twice. Is it' not bringing anything to the debate' to question things like this? Will this person be held to account?

so what does rhar make her then?

 

it is bringing something to the debate-the same thing that gets brought time and time again, which is fine. calling people bleeding heart tossers doesn't though.


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#314 Northern Sol

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 11:51 AM

so what does rhar make her then?

 

A good Christian.

 

Christian forgiveness does not mean that they think the criminal should not be punished. Punishment is part of the process of forgiveness.



#315 Johnoco

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 12:19 PM

so what does rhar make her then?

it is bringing something to the debate-the same thing that gets brought time and time again, which is fine. calling people bleeding heart tossers doesn't though.

It makes her a Christian. Presumably then, you approve of the families being the judge then? Like in some Islamic countries.

And I think people who campaign for murderers early releases (not campaigning for a pardon or claiming they were innocent) are tossers.

#316 Northern Sol

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

And I think people who campaign for murderers early releases (not campaigning for a pardon or claiming they were innocent) are tossers.

I'd agree with you that Lord Longford was a disgrace but it is possible that a murderer could reform to the point where an early release might be justifiable. It probably doesn't happen very often.



#317 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 12:55 PM

A good Christian.

Christian forgiveness does not mean that they think the criminal should not be punished. Punishment is part of the process of forgiveness.

I'm sure she does think that
Forgiveness doesn't absolve someone from punishment
But she's never expressed the desire to see them executed
She has shown dignity rather than hysteria
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#318 Northern Sol

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 12:59 PM

I'm sure she does think that
Forgiveness doesn't absolve someone from punishment
But she's never expressed the desire to see them executed
She has shown dignity rather than hysteria

It doesn't seem to be the case here but it's possible to both forgive the murder and also believe that they should be put to death.



#319 Severus

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

No, the problem was with the sentencing. If they had shot this oxygen thief, then the opportunity for leniency would never have existed.


That is certainly true, but the problems associated with the death penalty far outweigh the benefits (if you can call it that).
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#320 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 01:37 PM

It doesn't seem to be the case here but it's possible to both forgive the murder and also believe that they should be put to death.

Quite
Hence I referred to this individual case
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