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the death penalty


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#321 Severus

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 01:41 PM

Really? I would love to see you try to rationalise that thought to the relatives of the 2nd and 3rd victims of this animal.


Have you been paying attention to the debate where the reasons against te death penalty have been given? The case you mention was tragic, and would've been prevented had the man been locked up for life.
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#322 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 01:45 PM

Really? I would love to see you try to rationalise that thought to the relatives of the 2nd and 3rd victims of this animal.

Don't insult animals

You can't expect a rational view from someone who's had people close to them murdered not should you
If someone murdered or harmed anyone close to me I would want to personally rip them limb from limb

But the making of laws and the punishments for breaking them should be approached rationally
The logical ultimate conclusion to not doing that is the return of the lynch mob

I'm not a bleeding heart liberal when it comes to crime and I've worked for a long time in the criminal justice system but I don't believe in capital punishment

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 20 July 2013 - 01:46 PM.

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#323 Mumby Magic

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:53 PM

Some of you argue for the sake. Brady has cost us £14 Million over the years and nobody can be arsed to respond to it as you are all too involved in your own ###### for tats. Should he have been hanged or is £14 mill. Money well spent?

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#324 Johnoco

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 03:40 PM

Some of you argue for the sake. Brady has cost us £14 Million over the years and nobody can be arsed to respond to it as you are all too involved in your own ###### for tats. Should he have been hanged or is £14 mill. Money well spent?

For me, they could have put him to sleep years ago. But some people prefer to see him live as it would be uncivilised to grant his wishes.

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#325 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 04:10 PM

For me, they could have put him to sleep years ago. But some people prefer to see him live as it would be uncivilised to grant his wishes.

John just stop it
If you believe in the death penalty and want to argue in favour of it then fine
You are not doing that by disrespecting and grossly misrepresenting the people that disagree with you

Just out forward your argument?
I haven't disrespected you or put words into your mouth.

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 20 July 2013 - 04:15 PM.

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#326 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 05:30 PM

Your horse is definitely getting higher.

It does't seem to me like John is being disingenuous here at all. His stance on this is pretty straightforward, but you are plain refusing to see it.

Just answer the question. Do you think it represents a valid cost to spend £14M on keeping this man in prison?

It doesn't seem to me like he is either
He isn't in prison he is in a secure hospital because he is insane
He wantd to be in prison but was refused

Apart from the fact that he will take knowledge of still unfounded victims to his grave I wish he had topped himself years ago
As for the money it takes to keep him alive it sticks in my throat
But I don't think that we must have the death penalty because it is cheaper... It's a slippery slope
People like Brady are the barbarians not us

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 20 July 2013 - 05:46 PM.

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#327 Johnoco

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 05:32 PM

John just stop it
If you believe in the death penalty and want to argue in favour of it then fine
You are not doing that by disrespecting and grossly misrepresenting the people that disagree with you

Just out forward your argument?
I haven't disrespected you or put words into your mouth.

Unless you, or anyone on here, has campaigned to release someone or signed release forms for a murderer how am I referring to you?

I haven't just said I think people who oppose the death penalty are idiots, I am referring, quite specifically, to people who release or campaign to release murderers who then kill on release.

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#328 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 05:50 PM

Unless you, or anyone on here, has campaigned to release someone or signed release forms for a murderer how am I referring to you?

I haven't just said I think people who oppose the death penalty are idiots, I am referring, quite specifically, to people who release or campaign to release murderers who then kill on release.

I'm not aware of anyone who has campaigned for the release of a murder let alone a subsequent murder committed by someone released induct circumstances
I do know of people who have murdered again who have been released on license
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#329 Johnoco

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 06:37 PM

I do know of people who have murdered again who have been released on license


Yes, it has happened many many times. But as we know, these innocent people don't matter as much as the other innocent people.

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#330 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 06:47 PM

Yes, it has happened many many times. But as we know, these innocent people don't matter as much as the other innocent people.

Once is too many
I'm still not sure of anyone campaigning to release a murderer and certainly not one that has gone on to murder again perhaps you have some examples
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#331 Exiled Townie

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 07:18 PM

The last Home Office stats I saw stated that in the last ten years or so, there were over thirty people who after being imprisoned for murder, were released, and killed again.  If I can find a

link I'll stick it on here.


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#332 Johnoco

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 07:50 PM

Once is too many
I'm still not sure of anyone campaigning to release a murderer and certainly not one that has gone on to murder again perhaps you have some examples

Somebody somewhere saw fit to release these killers. Somebody said 'yes, this person is safe to release'. It clearly wasn't and was effectively a gamble that innocent people paid with their lives. And numerous murderers are released early without it making the headlines.

If one innocent person being executed is too many (and it is) then what about the numerous innocent people killed by released killers? What is the value ratio of these people both effectively killed by the state?

Edited by Johnoco, 20 July 2013 - 07:53 PM.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

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#333 John Drake

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 08:55 PM

Well I think £14 million to keep Ian Brady in is money well spent.

 

Out of interest, how was that figure calculated and has it been verified by any kind of official source?


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#334 Johnoco

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:02 PM

..

Edited by Johnoco, 20 July 2013 - 09:04 PM.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#335 Johnoco

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:03 PM

Out of interest, how was that figure calculated and has it been verified by any kind of official source?

I have no idea but what I would like to know is that if he is insane, what is he doing conducting a media circus like the other week? If he is actually insane, who is allowing this to happen? Its effectively a freak show.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#336 John Drake

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:16 PM

I have no idea but what I would like to know is that if he is insane, what is he doing conducting a media circus like the other week? If he is actually insane, who is allowing this to happen? Its effectively a freak show.

 

The media created the circus.


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#337 Jill Halfpenny fan

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:33 PM

Out of interest, how was that figure calculated and has it been verified by any kind of official source?


Department of Guesswork probably.
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#338 Johnoco

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

The media created the circus.

And this couldn't have been foreseen? Of course anything like this is going to be a circus so why play along with him? Any assessment can be done without the media spotlight.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#339 Shadow

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:43 AM

If it means we don't have a death penalty then any amount is money well spent.


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#340 gingerjon

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:51 AM

And this couldn't have been foreseen? Of course anything like this is going to be a circus so why play along with him? Any assessment can be done without the media spotlight.

 

I forget what the exact details are but apparently he's had several reviews like that one before but all conducted in secret.  Every patient has the right to have their reviews conducted in public without the usual levels of secrecy in certain circumstances.  Brady met those conditions and hence the public case.  He is unlikely to meet those conditions again (apparently).


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