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Rugby League World - April 2014
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the death penalty


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#341 gingerjon

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:52 AM

Meanwhile the murder rate continues to fall.


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#342 Johnoco

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:03 AM

Meanwhile the murder rate continues to fall.

That's not necessarily relevant though. I don't think anyone involved in a murder should automatically face the death penalty. The cases I think might apply are very rare, perhaps a couple a decade, but in theses cases - the baby killer or Cregan etc- then get shot of them.

#343 Mumby Magic

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:07 AM

Out of interest, how was that figure calculated and has it been verified by any kind of official source?


Via one of the papers in the week when he was in court. Breakdown was there and of course it's over 45 years too.

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#344 Johnoco

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:08 AM

If it means we don't have a death penalty then any amount is money well spent.

So.......you are happy to spend 'any amount of money' to make you feel better and subsequently affect millions of peoples lives in other areas that would go without the money? ie health, libraries, schools etc.

Why is it more important to prevent one innocent person dying via a miscarriage of justice than 30 killed by released murderers?

#345 Mumby Magic

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:30 AM

http://www.newsuk24....-sun-can-reveal

Ian Brady = £14 mill

Edited by Mumby Magic, 21 July 2013 - 09:30 AM.

Lilly, Jacob and Isaac, what my life is about. Although our route through life is not how it should be, I am a blessed man.


#346 Shadow

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:31 PM

So.......you are happy to spend 'any amount of money' to make you feel better and subsequently affect millions of peoples lives in other areas that would go without the money? ie health, libraries, schools etc.

Why is it more important to prevent one innocent person dying via a miscarriage of justice than 30 killed by released murderers?

Any death by accident or design is a tragedy, by keeping murderers locked up and not releasing them we protect society from wrongdoers and avoid the danger of executing an innocent person.

I want to make certain no one can be released to kill again, and make sure we don't kill an innocent person by mistake, why don't you and Franksy and all the others clamouring for executions care about the innocents that will undoubtedly be put to death by the state?

"The State" being all of us.

 

Guildford Four

Birmingham Six

Colin Stagg

Barry George

How many innocent people do you want to kill? What makes you any different from a conspirator to murder?


Edited by Shadow, 21 July 2013 - 01:32 PM.

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#347 Johnoco

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

I don't want to kill any innocent people, but if we are concerned about it, why not go with the option that causes least innocent deaths?
I see you know them but none of the people killed by released murderers. *Those* innocent people aren't a 'cause celebre' are they.

By releasing these repeat murderers, 'the state' has effectively given them a green light to kill innocent people. Not in my name I say.

Edited by Johnoco, 21 July 2013 - 01:43 PM.


#348 Shadow

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:41 PM

why not go with the option that causes least innocent deaths?

Which would be....

Locking murderers up and not releasing them.

 

If we don't release murderers then there won't be anyone killed by released murderers, will there?

 

Simple really, isn't it.


Edited by Shadow, 21 July 2013 - 01:42 PM.

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#349 Johnoco

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:43 PM

Which would be....
Locking murderers up and not releasing them.

If we don't release murderers then there won't be anyone killed by released murderers, will there?

Simple really, isn't it.

Er....which isn't happening and never will.

#350 Shadow

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:51 PM

Nor is execution, which one is least likely to cause innocent deaths? permanent incarceration or execution?

Why not put the same amount of effort into arguing for non release of convicted killers as you do to arguing for execution? 


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#351 Johnoco

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:05 PM

Nor is execution, which one is least likely to cause innocent deaths? permanent incarceration or execution?
Why not put the same amount of effort into arguing for non release of convicted killers as you do to arguing for execution?

If certain killers were incarcerated for life, as in life, that would be ok by me. But as we can see, they aren't and several kill again. I can't see Europe allowing permanent incarceration in future either.

Only the other week we had the lawyers representing people like Jeremy Bamber arguing that it was 'cruel and inhuman' to make them serve their full sentence. What is next? Would you bet money that in a few years someone is arguing that it is cruel and inhuman to jail anybody at all?

#352 Shadow

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:18 PM

If certain killers were incarcerated for life, as in life, that would be ok by me. But as we can see, they aren't and several kill again. I can't see Europe allowing permanent incarceration in future either.

Only the other week we had the lawyers representing people like Jeremy Bamber arguing that it was 'cruel and inhuman' to make them serve their full sentence. What is next? Would you bet money that in a few years someone is arguing that it is cruel and inhuman to jail anybody at all?

Don't go getting your legal information from the right wing press.

What the EHCR said was effectively that you can't keep someone locked up forever without periodically reviewing their sentence. What can then happen is we look at the sentence, say "yup, nothing wrong with that" and keep Jeremy Bamber banged up.


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#353 Johnoco

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:38 PM

Don't go getting your legal information from the right wing press.
What the EHCR said was effectively that you can't keep someone locked up forever without periodically reviewing their sentence. What can then happen is we look at the sentence, say "yup, nothing wrong with that" and keep Jeremy Bamber banged up.

I know what it said, I'm on about what is next. What if Europe disagrees with our assessment and says 'set them free or else'...what then?

#354 bobbruce

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 03:18 PM

Some of you argue for the sake. Brady has cost us £14 Million over the years and nobody can be arsed to respond to it as you are all too involved in your own ###### for tats. Should he have been hanged or is £14 mill. Money well spent?

Firstly how much would the countless appeals over the years have cost if he was sentenced to death. Your looking at millions for each court case and in America convicted killers can be on death row for years due to the appeals.

Secondly seeing as he was found to be clinicly insane he would avoid the death penalty anyway.

Edited by bobbruce, 21 July 2013 - 03:18 PM.


#355 Shadow

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 06:50 PM

I know what it said, I'm on about what is next. What if Europe disagrees with our assessment and says 'set them free or else'...what then?

And in your world of lunacy inspired by the headline writers of the Daily Express what will Europe say about execution ?
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#356 Johnoco

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:20 PM

And in your world of lunacy inspired by the headline writers of the Daily Express what will Europe say about execution ?

Lunacy? It's not me arguing that people are locked up forever when they clearly are not.

FYI, I don't buy or read a national paper. I just know how things happen today. You seriously think Europe could not make us follow any ruling they decide?

Pay someone enough money and they will defend anyone guilty of anything, its bent and totally corrupt.

Edited by Johnoco, 21 July 2013 - 07:22 PM.


#357 Shadow

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 08:15 PM

The confusion of your arguments has reached the point of parody.
I'm suggesting it would be better for us all if we locked people away instead of killing them. The choice is not between let them out or kill them and your expectation of future EU rulings seems to make the deranged ramblings of UKIP seem rational.
Are you seriously suggesting it is corrupt to allow criminals a defence lawyer?
Shall we do away with trials if it's bent and corrupt to offer a defence?
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#358 Johnoco

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 08:35 PM

I am saying that if someone can make a few bob out of it, they will challenge and overturn your assurance that people will be locked up forever.

#359 gingerjon

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:06 PM

That's not necessarily relevant though. I don't think anyone involved in a murder should automatically face the death penalty. The cases I think might apply are very rare, perhaps a couple a decade, but in theses cases - the baby killer or Cregan etc- then get shot of them.

 

It is relevant if part of the argument is 'deterrent'.  We have holiday camp prisons, life sentences of a fortnight and murderers laughing at us but the murder rate is falling.


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#360 Trojan

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:24 PM

It is relevant if part of the argument is 'deterrent'.  We have holiday camp prisons, life sentences of a fortnight and murderers laughing at us but the murder rate is falling.

 

If the prisons really are like holiday camps they must have got a helluva lot tougher than the last time I went to Butlins

http://www.express.c...Woolwich-prison

http://www.yorkshire...-jail-1-5837007

 

Perhaps if we introduced Sharia law those who want the return of captial punishment would be happy?  We could then also have a return to corporal punishment too! Bring back the cat and the birch!  Stoning to death, decapitation, removal of thieves hands.  After all Saudi Arabia is such a good example to follow in these matters isn't it?


"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013




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