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the death penalty


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#61 ckn

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:08 PM

to keep that "one" child killer in prison for 30 years costs over a million pounds, a syringe however costs pennys - old people, no sorry honest old people die in their homes because they cant afford to put the gas fire on while the money goes in to toasting the toes of absolute ####.

Would you have killed this "child killer"?


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#62 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:10 PM

to keep that "one" child killer in prison for 30 years costs over a million pounds, a syringe however costs pennys - old people, no sorry honest old people die in their homes because they cant afford to put the gas fire on while the money goes in to toasting the toes of absolute ####.

yes let's base our justice system on cost that's the mark of a civilised society. In  Fact it's started already with the proposed changes to the legal aid system which I'm sure you are in favour of. How much do you think it costs to fund appeals for instance which we've seen in the US usually go on for years.

old people of which I am one don't die of cold because money is spent keeping people in prison, but becayse the government takes separate decisions on funding.


Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 15 June 2013 - 04:12 PM.

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#63 bedlam breakout

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:16 PM

Would you have killed this "child killer"?

 

those lessons of the past have been learnt, you can not live in the past- if you did what is the point of all the scientific research and advancement techniques used in forensics? we might just as well get regan and carter on the case and get em banged up according to that argument.


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#64 bedlam breakout

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:17 PM

yes let's base our justice system on cost that's the mark of a civilised society. In  Fact it's started already with the proposed changes to the legal aid system which I'm sure you are in favour of. How much do you think it costs to fund appeals for instance which we've seen in the US usually go on for years.

old people of which I am one don't die of cold because money is spent keeping people in prison, but becayse the government takes separate decisions on funding.

funding the welfare of ####


the inside of a 3star halex table tennis ball smells much like you'd expect it to.

#65 ckn

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:21 PM

those lessons of the past have been learnt, you can not live in the past- if you did what is the point of all the scientific research and advancement techniques used in forensics? we might just as well get regan and carter on the case and get em banged up according to that argument.

No, they haven't.  If you think miscarriages of justice are a thing of the past then I have some snake oil I'd like to sell you.  All it needs is one simple human error of misplaced or mis-marked evidence and you could easily have the wrong person identified as a criminal by forensic tests.  The cuts to police forensic teams' budgets and pressure on police to use fewer of their resources means that human error is still a serious risk to justice.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#66 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:26 PM

funding the welfare of ####

I entered this discussion unwillingly

your level of discourse along with some of the comments you've made about people who migt disagree with you-although there are some who quite legitimately consider being called liberal a compliment is the reason fr that unwillingness.

You agree with the death penalty: fine

others don't and have said why

 

Thi debate has been dug up and dusted off more times than I care to remember

 

other members agree with you but have conducted themselves a little better than you.


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#67 bedlam breakout

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:29 PM

No, they haven't.  If you think miscarriages of justice are a thing of the past then I have some snake oil I'd like to sell you.  All it needs is one simple human error of misplaced or mis-marked evidence and you could easily have the wrong person identified as a criminal by forensic tests.  The cuts to police forensic teams' budgets and pressure on police to use fewer of their resources means that human error is still a serious risk to justice.

so cregan, Huntley, the two woolwich terrorists , sutcliffe, etc all could be totally innocent then -sorry my mistake -lets find 10 million quid to keep em comfy just in case.


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#68 bedlam breakout

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:32 PM

I entered this discussion unwillingly

your level of discourse along with some of the comments you've made about people who migt disagree with you-although there are some who quite legitimately consider being called liberal a compliment is the reason fr that unwillingness.

You agree with the death penalty: fine

others don't and have said why

 

Thi debate has been dug up and dusted off more times than I care to remember

 

other members agree with you but have conducted themselves a little better than you.

what comments have I made about "anyone who disagrees with me?"


the inside of a 3star halex table tennis ball smells much like you'd expect it to.

#69 ckn

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:34 PM

so cregan, Huntley, the two woolwich terrorists , sutcliffe, etc all could be totally innocent then -sorry my mistake -lets find 10 million quid to keep em comfy just in case.

 

 

 

I doubt that I'd be able to change your mind on this so won't bother any more.  The death penalty is just wrong in my opinion and, as mentioned by others, is all about vengeance rather than justice, a very nasty path for a country to go down.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#70 bedlam breakout

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:38 PM

I doubt that I'd be able to change your mind on this so won't bother any more.  The death penalty is just wrong in my opinion and, as mentioned by others, is all about vengeance rather than justice, a very nasty path for a country to go down.

if it was vengeance my friend they would be tortured everyday for a year 1st , its not vengeance its justice and economic sense


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#71 Northern Sol

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:51 PM

Question; how many innocent people have been killed by murderers released from prison? I dont know the figure but don't they count as innocent lives lost? (Ie had the perpetrator been executed those people would still be alive)

As I say, I don't think I actually support the death sentence but don't buy the argument that murderers lives are sacrosanct and we become as bad as them. I could go out tonight and get stabbed, die but the person who did it is guaranteed to be safe. Why? Is it civilised to say to me 'you can go out but you risk someone stabbing you' but to have the perpetrators life safeguarded? I'm sorry but that isn't fair in my eyes.

I don't think anyone sent to prison is guaranteed to be safe. Notorious killers like Ian Brady and that one who killed those two girls in Soham are often assaulted (or worse) in prison.

 

The other thing is that anyone who committed a murder deemed bad enough to be worthy of execution would certainly get a life term that actually means life.



#72 Northern Sol

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:52 PM

Would you have killed this "child killer"?

To be honest, they might as well have done, he was released in 1992 and died in 1993. Tragic.



#73 JohnM

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:57 PM

No one said that. However, miscarriages of justice do still occur and the point is that by their very nature, we don't know what they are..yet. There are also (potential) denials of justice, somedeathe in police custody are highly controversial and death by dangerous driving penalties seem remarkably low at time. And what about this guy?  see http://m.thenorthern..._in_Easingwold/  Kill him?

 

And this guy? http://www.bbc.co.uk...ingham-22728927

 

According to the ONS, there were 847 deliberate killings in England and Wales in 2001  reducing slightly each year to 552 in 2012.

 

over the same period they reduced from 115 to 90 in Scotland.

 

you can also see more figs here: http://www.murderuk....rime_stats.html

 

see here also: http://www.capitalpu...g/hanging1.html



#74 bedlam breakout

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 04:59 PM

I don't think anyone sent to prison is guaranteed to be safe. Notorious killers like Ian Brady and that one who killed those two girls in Soham are often assaulted (or worse) in prison.

 

The other thing is that anyone who committed a murder deemed bad enough to be worthy of execution would certainly get a life term that actually means life.

more publicity for them


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#75 Johnoco

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:02 PM

yes let's base our justice system on cost that's the mark of a civilised society. In Fact it's started already with the proposed changes to the legal aid system which I'm sure you are in favour of. How much do you think it costs to fund appeals for instance which we've seen in the US usually go on for years.
old people of which I am one don't die of cold because money is spent keeping people in prison, but becayse the government takes separate decisions on funding.

Hang on a sec, we decide which cancer patients (to use just one illness of many) can live or die based on cost, so how come we can ring fence money to look after #### like Cregan? How many old people are sat rotting in a 'care' home as we speak due to no carers because of cuts?
Yet money to keep such people alive and in comfort is beyond question? What on earth is civilised about that? Effectively letting people who live a blameless life rot whilst ensuring criminals who have willingly killed in cold blood are ok.
I think it f******n stinks.

#76 John Drake

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:03 PM

those lessons of the past have been learnt, you can not live in the past- if you did what is the point of all the scientific research and advancement techniques used in forensics? we might just as well get regan and carter on the case and get em banged up according to that argument.

 

But that's exactly what you want to do, by calling for the reintroduction of the death penalty. <_<


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#77 Northern Sol

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:13 PM

more publicity for them

?

 

I don't see what that has to do with what I said.



#78 Johnoco

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 05:16 PM


But that's exactly what you want to do, by calling for the reintroduction of the death penalty. <_<


Why is it living in the past? Pretty sure we never had the death penalty exclusively for cases like Cregan.

#79 Mumby Magic

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:46 PM

Deterrant or punishment is a big difference.

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#80 Johnoco

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:51 PM

Burglary is illegal. It is still rife, maybe we should legalise it to reduce the rates




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