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Yorkshire v Lancashire really 'failed' didn't it?


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#21 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:44 AM

If it's meant to be an exhibition match it's at the wrong time of year. If it's meant to be a test match then it's showing signs of failing. If it's meant to be something else I don't know what that is.

Agree. I think there's definitely room for it, but better as a end of season warm up for the real tournament. To try to build this up as something it will never be will just harm promotion of other events IMO.

if we're going to sell it to the outside world as 'sort of like the Barbarians' I think they should be out there in black and white (confusing all the FC fans) and called the Barbarians. There seem to be quite a few rah-rah "Barbarians" that have no connection to the original Barbarian FC anyway.

Can't agree. I don't see what's wring with the Exiles?
Calling them Barbarians will just get unwanted and unnecessary comparisons to union every time they play. Lets stick with our own concept and own idea for a change.
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#22 Johnoco

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:50 AM

TRL was around in 2001 and I am pretty sure the same things were being said then as now. ..nothing much changes.
Pottsy, it wadnt the rfl saying 'build it and they will come' but a lot of rl fans claiming tha it would pack them in. As usual. ....

#23 Pottsy

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:52 AM

If it's meant to be an exhibition match it's at the wrong time of year. If it's meant to be a test match then it's showing signs of failing. If it's meant to be something else I don't know what that is.

But if we're going to sell it to the outside world as 'sort of like the Barbarians' I think they should be out there in black and white (confusing all the FC fans) and called the Barbarians. There seem to be quite a few rah-rah "Barbarians" that have no connection to the original Barbarian FC anyway.


What could you possibly seek to gain by 'borrowing' a brand synonymous with an institution that spent 100 years trying to systematically crush us other than ridicule and negative comparisons?

Did the doomed Harlequins RL folly teach us nothing?

Rugby League should be celebrating its own proud heritage, not fawning pathetically over someone else's!


The Exiles would've seemed like far less of a contrivance had someone at the RFL had the sense to make the obvious link with the proud history of Other Nationalities games. A few tweaks to the kit, a couple of grainy VTs/interviews with past ON stars and a bit more reverence to our own past and the Exiles would've had (and still could have much more lustre).

We are rugby league!

#24 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:52 AM

As for bringing back Yorks vs Lancs, there needs to be an aim for them pretty close to the game IMO. If we took a two week break, had the Roses in week one and then travelled to NZ in week two (picking the players that performed best in the Roses, not players who have shown "good long term form" (code for: they're out of form now but were good once)), I think the passion for it by the players and fans would be far higher and the concept taken as more genuine.
You could also have England Knights travel with them and play a Pacific Islands team.

Cumbria vs the South would be pretty good as well. I suppose you could through in Midlands for North East and cover all the regions then. If all regions are playing, it stops it from being just a "northern game" with Yorks/Lancs only.
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#25 Pottsy

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:54 AM

Lancs v Yorks and the exile concept could both work if there was a big pot of cash available for the winners. Vulgar i know, but if we want both sides to actually at least pretend they're interested which would make the likes of me want to part with my money to watch then its the only way.


Cash would certainly help, but heritage, prestige, incentive and a smarter structure would be more powerful drivers.

#26 amh

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:55 AM

Cash would certainly help, but heritage, prestige, incentive and a smarter structure would be more powerful drivers.

 

I'm not sure where any prize would go? But I would love to buy a Lancashire shirt - they could raise funds accordingly


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#27 gingerjon

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:08 AM

Did the doomed Harlequins RL folly teach us nothing?

Yes.

No investment and a woeful team leads to disaster.
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#28 nec

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:09 AM

If we can't just play international matches against other nations due to competitiveness issues then a 4 way comp with Cumbria playing the south MUST be included. I went to a Roses match at Headingley and it was dismal despite loads of hype in the run up. It didn't matter enough to most fans and the players seemed to be less intense. Play France every year on Bastille Day, play Wales every year, play visiting Southern Hemisphere sides. All of these will be international occasions. The roses and exiles experiments were always flawed concepts that scream 'weak international structure and only played in the industrial north'. Do the right thing and stick to it, the right thing is proper internationals against countries that may gain something from the opportunity to host one of the big three or from being able to offer the carrot of a match in England.
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#29 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:11 AM

If we can't just play international matches against other nations due to competitiveness issues then a 4 way comp with Cumbria playing the south MUST be included. I went to a Roses match at Headingley and it was dismal despite loads of hype in the run up. It didn't matter enough to most fans and the players seemed to be less intense. Play France every year on Bastille Day, play Wales every year, play visiting Southern Hemisphere sides. All of these will be international occasions. The roses and exiles experiments were always flawed concepts that scream 'weak international structure and only played in the industrial north'. Do the right thing and stick to it, the right thing is proper internationals against countries that may gain something from the opportunity to host one of the big three or from being able to offer the carrot of a match in England.


I can't tell if that's in favour of bringing back the Roses or not?!
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#30 GeordieSaint

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:15 AM

If we can't just play international matches against other nations due to competitiveness issues then a 4 way comp with Cumbria playing the south MUST be included. I went to a Roses match at Headingley and it was dismal despite loads of hype in the run up. It didn't matter enough to most fans and the players seemed to be less intense. Play France every year on Bastille Day, play Wales every year, play visiting Southern Hemisphere sides. All of these will be international occasions. The roses and exiles experiments were always flawed concepts that scream 'weak international structure and only played in the industrial north'. Do the right thing and stick to it, the right thing is proper internationals against countries that may gain something from the opportunity to host one of the big three or from being able to offer the carrot of a match in England.

 

There is room for the 'Exiles' match but it should be played on ANZAC day in London. Tthe French in France on Bastille Day would be a great idea and I am a great advocate of playing the other home nations as well. Not a big fan of the 'County' option at professional level. 


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#31 nec

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:17 AM


I can't tell if that's in favour of bringing back the Roses or not?!

If we cannot play internationals for whatever reason it is better than exiles but include Cumbria v south
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#32 RugbyLeagueGeek

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:17 AM

IMO part of the problem was that Yorks v Lancs was billed as a competitive trial, but when Yorks stuffed Lancs none of them got picked for GB at the end of the year anyway. I got the impression that David Waite had a say in the selection of both teams as well, which is completely contrary to what happens in Australia.

I also hated that they called it 'County of Origin' or something naff like that. 'War of the Roses' was much better as a name and could have helped in the publicity. Using the word 'origin' over here just reinforces how the games are a pale imitation of Australia's 'origin'.

I agree that the concept was set up to fail, albeit probably by bad planning rather than design.

#33 nec

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:20 AM


There is room for the 'Exiles' match but it should be played on ANZAC day in London

This is the only way it should continue IMHO with perhaps a rep game involving the south as a precursor
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#34 Pottsy

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:21 AM

IMO part of the problem was that Yorks v Lancs was billed as a competitive trial, but when Yorks stuffed Lancs none of them got picked for GB at the end of the year anyway. I got the impression that David Waite had a say in the selection of both teams as well, which is completely contrary to what happens in Australia.

I also hated that they called it 'County of Origin' or something naff like that. 'War of the Roses' was much better as a name and could have helped in the publicity. Using the word 'origin' over here just reinforces how the games are a pale imitation of Australia's 'origin'.

I agree that the concept was set up to fail, albeit probably by bad planning rather than design.


100% spot on.

#35 Ant

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:26 AM

England V Exiles is a wonderful concept

The problem at the moment though is the level of overseas player from the antipodes is in decline for a variety of reasons so such a team isn't as attractive to fans or as much a test to England

Someone earlier however said that they miss a trick by not allowing the players of other home nations in

Imagine last night if the exiles had played Brough and Dobson at halfback together, Kopcak in the front row, Elliot Kear on one wing as well as throwing in the best of all the other non English players in Super League?

Makes it commercially more appealing and a much sterner test - while also providing a great platform for the home nations best players to strengthen their own games by playing with and against other great players

The more I think about it the more it answered so many problems about how to advance the game

#36 Pottsy

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:48 AM

This is the only way it should continue IMHO with perhaps a rep game involving the south as a precursor


This will not do anything to advance the crowd. They struggled to fill the Stoop with Aus/NZ fans for a full blown 4 Nations game

#37 archibald

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:03 AM


Cash would certainly help, but heritage, prestige, incentive and a smarter structure would be more powerful drivers.


Heritage and prestige don't put food on the table. In 30 years it may do but that's no good for the blokes today

#38 RSN

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:20 AM

Cumbria v the south would be interesting, although would depend how lenient you are on selection for the South. Sam Tomkins could technically turn out for them. Although Cumbrias starting 13 would be very strong. Especially the pack.

Brett Carter
Ade Gardner
Matt Gardner
Liam Harrison
Elliot Miller
Peter Lupton
Callum Philips
Lee Mossop
Shaun Lunt
Brad Singleton
Brett Philips
Kyle Amor
Oliver Wilkes

Not a bad starting 13, admit there is some Championship players in there, but Callum and Brett Philips, Liam Harrison and Elliot Miller are all more than capable of playing SL level. Harrison likely won't make the step up due to his age and his job but I'd be surprised if at least two of the Workington lads didn't make the step. Not bad for a county with no SL club for miles.

I'd definitely attend a double header between Lancashire and Yorkshire and Cumbria v the south, we can't be missing many players out with that concept?

#39 Scubby

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:25 AM

England V Exiles is a wonderful concept

The problem at the moment though is the level of overseas player from the antipodes is in decline for a variety of reasons so such a team isn't as attractive to fans or as much a test to England

Someone earlier however said that they miss a trick by not allowing the players of other home nations in

Imagine last night if the exiles had played Brough and Dobson at halfback together, Kopcak in the front row, Elliot Kear on one wing as well as throwing in the best of all the other non English players in Super League?

Makes it commercially more appealing and a much sterner test - while also providing a great platform for the home nations best players to strengthen their own games by playing with and against other great players

The more I think about it the more it answered so many problems about how to advance the game

 

Sadly, the Exiles concept has arrived a decade too late. Now watching England play a team that had Steve Renouf, Allan Langer, Jason Smith, Trent Barrett, Richie Barnett, Richard Swain, Stacy Jones, Jim Dymock, Marcus Bai, Lesley Vainakolo, Joe Vagana, Robbie and Henry Paul, Brett Dallas, Jamie Lyon - now that would have been an exciting period (2000-2006).

 

The current concept is doomed sadly. Partly because of the alarming decline of the Exiles. Last night's team had an average age of 31. Leuluai, Menzies, Hodgson, Puletua, Waterhouse, Richards, Monaghan (all 31-39) are going to be replaced by who in 1-2 years? And this team was getting flogged. It also contained Chris Bailey and Heath L'Estrange FFS.

 

Yorkshire v Lancashire is not the answer. What might be the answer is England v England Knights played on a free weekend with a big pot of cash to the winners and the Elite training squad being named at the end of the following week. This is then followed by a test in France on Bastille Day week-end.


Edited by Scubby, 15 June 2013 - 11:26 AM.


#40 Scubby

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 11:26 AM

Sadly, the Exiles concept has arrived a decade too late. Now watching England play a team that had Steve Renouf, Allan Langer, Jason Smith, Trent Barrett, Richie Barnett, Richard Swain, Stacy Jones, Jim Dymock, Marcus Bai, Lesley Vainakolo, Joe Vagana, Robbie and Henry Paul, Brett Dallas, Jamie Lyon - now that would have been an exciting period (2000-2006).

 

The current concept is doomed sadly. Partly because of the alarming decline of the Exiles. Last night's team had an average age of 31. Leuluai, Menzies, Hodgson, Puletua, Waterhouse, Richards, Monaghan (all 31-39) are going to be replaced by who in 1-2 years? And this team was getting flogged. It also contained Chris Bailey and Heath L'Estrange FFS.

 

Yorkshire v Lancashire is not the answer. What might be the answer is England v England Knights played on a free weekend with a big pot of cash to the winners and the Elite training squad being named at the end of the following week. This is then followed by a test in France on Bastille Day week-end.






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