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Barwick's latest on the Broncos


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#41 The Parksider

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:48 PM

I think that from this we can draw that Broncos in the lower division will not necessarily have a downward effect on grass roots RL at all.

We can't draw such an extreme conclusion. Of course development officers get the kids playing and of course Superleague clubs provide a pathway for the best to become professionals. There's two factors at play but there are enough respected commentators to support the idea that Broncos demise will have an effect on player production. What price kids in London honing their skills in the grassroots RL game and using those skills to follow an RU career?

#42 statties

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:53 PM

We can't draw such an extreme conclusion. Of course development officers get the kids playing and of course Superleague clubs provide a pathway for the best to become professionals. There's two factors at play but there are enough respected commentators to support the idea that Broncos demise will have an effect on player production. What price kids in London honing their skills in the grassroots RL game and using those skills to follow an RU career?

 

I tend to disagree. The state of grassroots RL in London pre community coach deployment 7 years ago included four junior clubs and about a quarter of the existing number of adult grassroots clubs.

 

So the qualifications and understanding of these "respected commentators" to make such statements about Broncos link to growth at grassroots is unfortunately not backed by the evidence to hand



#43 The Parksider

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:37 PM

I tend to disagree. The state of grassroots RL in London pre community coach deployment 7 years ago included four junior clubs and about a quarter of the existing number of adult grassroots clubs.

 

So the qualifications and understanding of these "respected commentators" to make such statements about Broncos link to growth at grassroots is unfortunately not backed by the evidence to hand

 

My point was about what follows grassroots. i.e. the consequent development of grassroots players into professsionals, but we can agree to disagree good sir, and await to see how things pan out should London leave Superleague.



#44 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:13 PM

The Broncos need to stand and fall like any other SL club. They don't and shouldn't get special treatment. I don't event think that them getting relegated next year would be such a bad thing. They need to re-group and get themselves sorted, and maybe they could do that better without the burden of financing a SL squad.

 

Where the RFL should give special treatment is to the development of the game in the south, but currently times are hard. Opening up our game to athletes in the south is crucial to our hopes of being more competitive internationally.



#45 Saintslass

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:48 PM

The Broncos need to stand and fall like any other SL club. They don't and shouldn't get special treatment..

I've heard this rationale purported by many English rugby league fans (probably actually more specifically northern English rugby league fans).  However, why shouldn't London get special treatment?  What do you think Australian rugby league fans would be saying at present had Melbourne not received 'special treatment'?  The spine of the very successful national side play for them.  Sure, that spine might have ended up playing for another team but equally it might not either.  Slater et al may have been missed. 

 

However, Australian rugby league fans are not parochial and resentful in the same way many English rugby league fans are and so they have a very successful expansion side which has spawned the spine of a successful national side whereas we have a basketcase of one in London.

 

I wonder which country has got it right?



#46 The Future is League

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:52 PM

Lets pull up the drawbridge and retreat to the North of the Trent again. Lets go back to the good old days and only be a Northern sport and while we're about it lets return to being part time and revert back to playing in winter. I can't wait to see what the Sky contract will be worth then. Getting rid of the Broncos is the first step to that.



#47 GeordieSaint

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:53 PM

The Broncos need to stand and fall like any other SL club. They don't and shouldn't get special treatment.

 

How do London get special treatment?


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#48 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:41 PM

I've heard this rationale purported by many English rugby league fans (probably actually more specifically northern English rugby league fans).  However, why shouldn't London get special treatment?  What do you think Australian rugby league fans would be saying at present had Melbourne not received 'special treatment'?  The spine of the very successful national side play for them.  Sure, that spine might have ended up playing for another team but equally it might not either.  Slater et al may have been missed. 

 

However, Australian rugby league fans are not parochial and resentful in the same way many English rugby league fans are and so they have a very successful expansion side which has spawned the spine of a successful national side whereas we have a basketcase of one in London.

 

I wonder which country has got it right?

 

I'm afraid there are some Australian Rugby League fans, including certain posters who have graced this board in recent years, who are firmly of the view that rugby league expansion should stop at New South Wales southern and eastern borders.It's why NRL expansion is an ongoing debate on their boards but that would be a separate thread. They are wrong, but just to be clear, there is a backwoodsmen element downunder as well..

 

Lets pull up the drawbridge and retreat to the North of the Trent again. Lets go back to the good old days and only be a Northern sport and while we're about it lets return to being part time and revert back to playing in winter. I can't wait to see what the Sky contract will be worth then. Getting rid of the Broncos is the first step to that.

 

The Irony of course being as a southerner, RL is not actually northern in that you do not have to go too far in what I would call "the north" to enter a Rugby League Free-Zone a bit like the New Zealand Test at Blackburn in 2002 or England v France at Doncaster at 2009 in which I was assured by those in attendance that Rugby League will never catch on in South Yorkshire...

 

Back on thread, all the Barwick statement proves is the old adage about consultants

 

A consultant borrows your watch to tell you the time

 

So for the two days consultancy per week he is paid for by the RFL Mr Barwick comes up with these blinding observations

 

London team is ###### and they get c***p crowds - cause and effect methinks... and Losing London's not a big deal but I would like to give it another 5-10 years before making a hard choice.

 

Profound is it not.

 

The RFL could get together a group of say 10 posters from here and RLfans who actually watch the club who would give them a far more profound understanding of the problems the club and the game faces down here and would be much cheaper...

 

Personally I am more interested in the outcome of the meeting of the Super League Chairmen that took place yesterday, where no doubt some forthright opinions were expressed and since there appears to be movement in the right direction by the London Broncos over the last couple of days I am hopeful and it's unusual to come ontjhis board in a hopeful mood... ;)


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Being an outsider, it is easiest to see what is wrong with the sport. It's a fantastic sport that has been undersold and under-marketed  because people who run it probably want to keep it the way it is

 

 

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#49 GeordieSaint

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:13 PM

Personally I am more interested in the outcome of the meeting of the Super League Chairmen that took place yesterday, where no doubt some forthright opinions were expressed and since there appears to be movement in the right direction by the London Broncos over the last couple of days I am hopeful and it's unusual to come ontjhis board in a hopeful mood... ;)


I didn't realise a meeting had taken place. What are the moves in the direction?

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#50 The Parksider

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 10:25 PM

The Broncos need to stand and fall like any other SL club. They don't and shouldn't get special treatment. I don't event think that them getting relegated next year would be such a bad thing. Where the RFL should give special treatment is to the development of the game in the south, but currently times are hard. Opening up our game to athletes in the south is crucial to our hopes of being more competitive internationally.

 

But the Broncos are part of the "development of the game in the south" the best players feed to the RFL backed London academy, and the Broncos give the young lads their chances at first team level playing the best, and the prospect of a career in RL.

 

Having watched Liam Sutcliffe, Thomas Minns, Brad Singleton and Jordan Baldwinson monday night, being pitched in against SL Widnes, the idea that these London lads won't have the same chances without an SL Broncos is pretty much shutting the door on the southern athletes you feel are crucial to the game's success?



#51 The Future is League

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:17 AM

How do London get special treatment?

They don't there lies the problem. Any expansion team from any team sport in Australia gets help. Thats why Australia is the best Rugby League side in the world. Thats why the Australian union team have won 2 world cups. Thats why the Australian soccer have just qualified for the soccer world ina country where its a minor sport.



#52 thirteenthman

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:20 AM

However, Australian rugby league fans are not parochial and resentful in the same way many English rugby league fans are

 

Go and have a look at the League Unlimited Forum and you'll find it full of parochial and resentful Aussie fans - particularly where the Melbourne Storm are concerned.



#53 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:55 AM

I've heard this rationale purported by many English rugby league fans (probably actually more specifically northern English rugby league fans).  However, why shouldn't London get special treatment?  What do you think Australian rugby league fans would be saying at present had Melbourne not received 'special treatment'?  The spine of the very successful national side play for them.  Sure, that spine might have ended up playing for another team but equally it might not either.  Slater et al may have been missed. 

 

However, Australian rugby league fans are not parochial and resentful in the same way many English rugby league fans are and so they have a very successful expansion side which has spawned the spine of a successful national side whereas we have a basketcase of one in London.

 

I wonder which country has got it right?

Slater etc are Queenslanders. I can understand the argument that a London side might help to take talented youngsters into RL and not RU (or apathy) but it's a bit much to argue that without a Melbourne based side we wouldn't get Queenslanders playing RL.



#54 foozler

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:28 AM

Really enjoyable post that. We shall see how things pan out......

 

Thanks.

 

It is a very difficult situation. They obviously don't have a winning formula, either on or off the field and I do think the Broncos need to regroup out of the limelight of SL. 

 

Which I don't think would mean the end of RL as we know it in the Greater London/ wider South East area.



#55 foozler

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:36 AM

The loss of the development officers is a far greater threat to London RL than any downsizing/relegation of the Broncos.

 

I do think that this is the case, particularly in the schools. 

 

Many talk about the RFL increasing funding to the Broncos/ taking a majority stake. Personally I would much rather see that money spent on salaries in the Greater London area for development officers or put into getting more community clubs up and running. If the RFL and the top clubs could work together, there is nothing stopping them putting on training camps in the summer down in the South East (they may do this already I don't know), or putting on US style combines. 

 

Heck, what is to stop one of the top clubs having a stake in a southern based academy? 



#56 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:10 PM

How do London get special treatment?

 I think you should read my post which you quoted!!!

 

I wrote "They don't and shouldn't get special treatment".



#57 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:28 PM

But the Broncos are part of the "development of the game in the south" the best players feed to the RFL backed London academy, and the Broncos give the young lads their chances at first team level playing the best, and the prospect of a career in RL.

 

Having watched Liam Sutcliffe, Thomas Minns, Brad Singleton and Jordan Baldwinson monday night, being pitched in against SL Widnes, the idea that these London lads won't have the same chances without an SL Broncos is pretty much shutting the door on the southern athletes you feel are crucial to the game's success?

 

The Broncos are part of that development but I don't think the RFL exempting the Broncos from relegation, or allowing them to overspend on the salary cap, or letting them exceed the quota, or giving them a bigger share of central funds is sensible. The Broncos have gone backwards in recent years. Special treatment by the RFL would simply shore up a management at that club that isn't performing well enough.

 

For a relatively small sum (in London terms) a good management team could make the Broncos a much more competitive club that added real value to Super League.



#58 The Parksider

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:56 PM

The Broncos are part of that development but I don't think the RFL exempting the Broncos from relegation, or allowing them to overspend on the salary cap, or letting them exceed the quota, or giving them a bigger share of central funds is sensible. The Broncos have gone backwards in recent years. Special treatment by the RFL would simply shore up a management at that club that isn't performing well enough.

 

For a relatively small sum (in London terms) a good management team could make the Broncos a much more competitive club that added real value to Super League.

 

Point entirely taken....

 

Any extra favours the Broncos got would be dependent of course on them running a tight ship in the first place.

 

There seems to be an idea that someone may take on the Broncos if only Hughes would let go, if so that someone may just well come forward if they know that they are not having to subsidise SLE's expansion plan as well as run an RL club.



#59 Doghead

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:57 AM

Think I read somewhere London Bronco's pay out something like £300,000 rent to house their players, cost that wont be the same up North, its no wonder times are hard for the club.



#60 Dave T

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:30 AM

Think I read somewhere London Bronco's pay out something like £300,000 rent to house their players, cost that wont be the same up North, its no wonder times are hard for the club.

 Does property rental count on the salary cap? Ultimately players should be paying their own rent out of their wages.






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