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Super League Restructure Discussion (Many Merged Threads)


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#301 Griff

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:30 AM

one off games against a weak super league side are hardly a pointer as to how well a championship side would fare in super league, i think there is too massive a gap between the two divisions which is unbridgeable for many teams.

Agree. Whether or not Sheffield win the QF, the point will be unproven.

Obviously, in a traditional promotion scenario, the promoted team has an opportunity to strengthen the team. In this mid-season re-jig proposal, it doesn't. And that's the big problem for me. I just don't see how it can work. Even if you slip the top four championship teams a wedge to bring them up to speed with the other four clubs in the middle eight, who are they going to sign that will improve the team ?

Someone suggested (on the Halifax forum) that clubs might not need to sign players - just have the existing squad go full time. But who's going to drop their day-job for a couple of months ? And will any improvement be instant ?

Edited by Griff, 25 June 2013 - 09:37 AM.

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#302 thundergaz

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:31 AM

one off games against a weak super league side are hardly a pointer as to how well a championship side would fare in super league, i think there is too massive a gap between the two divisions which is unbridgeable for many teams.


That's from a Widnes fan who never won the championship. In fact never finished in the top 2 and your team seems to be holding their own in SL at this present time so why can't the championship clubs make that step up too? Especially when IMO the championship is alot stronger than when your team was in it.

#303 Viking Warrior

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:35 AM

That's from a Widnes fan who never won the championship. In fact never finished in the top 2 and your team seems to be holding their own in SL at this present time so why can't the championship clubs make that step up too? Especially when IMO the championship is alot stronger than when your team was in it.


check the record books old lad we did finish in the top two on a few occasions and contested two grand finals, my point is that a one off cup game doesn't indicate how well a team will do in the top flight, why did you feel the need to troll???
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



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#304 thundergaz

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:38 AM

check the record books old lad we did finish in the top two on a few occasions and contested two grand finals, my point is that a one off cup game doesn't indicate how well a team will do in the top flight, why did you feel the need to troll???


I agree a one off game means nothing. But I would say that 3 champ clubs could make the step up to SL and hold their own. Obviously they will strengthen too. I personally don't think the gulf between the bottom of SL and top of the champ is that big of a gulf. I think it would be easily achieved.

#305 Griff

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:41 AM

I agree a one off game means nothing. But I would say that 3 champ clubs could make the step up to SL and hold their own. Obviously they will strengthen too. I personally don't think the gulf between the bottom of SL and top of the champ is that big of a gulf. I think it would be easily achieved.

Like your confidence, Gaz, but you're dreaming again.
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#306 thundergaz

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:44 AM

[quote name="Griff" post="2731755" timestamp="1372153263"]

Like your confidence, Gaz, but you're dreaming again.[/quote

Well hopefully my team will get the chance one day to prove the point Richie mate. But I don't think the eagles us and fax are that far behind at this present time to what is needed.If 2 get the boot for this split option maybe we will see Richie.

Edited by thundergaz, 25 June 2013 - 09:47 AM.


#307 Viking Warrior

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:46 AM

finances, crowds,turnover, stadia, player development, etc etc etc it's not just about the on field product,

Edited by Viking Warrior, 25 June 2013 - 09:47 AM.

"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



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#308 thundergaz

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:48 AM

finances, crowds,turnover, stadia, player development, etc etc etc it's not just about the on field product,


I agree but can you tell me that you honestly think London and Cas are infront of us in all those areas? I personally don't think they are.

Edited by thundergaz, 25 June 2013 - 09:48 AM.


#309 Viking Warrior

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:53 AM

no they aren't but they do have a better player pool.
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



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#310 thundergaz

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:57 AM

no they aren't but they do have a better player pool.


I agree but that's only because they have had a lot longer time in the top flight with no P&R to build their player pool. What I'm saying is if you were a young lad would you go to a champ club or a SL club?. With no P&R these clubs have been able to invest in their player pools.

#311 Griff

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:06 AM

I agree but that's only because they have had a lot longer time in the top flight with no P&R to build their player pool. What I'm saying is if you were a young lad would you go to a champ club or a SL club?. With no P&R these clubs have been able to invest in their player pools.

Well, that's what I've been saying, Gaz. How are you going to improve the player pool in the ten minutes you've got between the 12-phase and the 8-phase ?

Even if you have the money ......
"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

#312 The Parksider

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:08 AM

I agree a one off game means nothing. But I would say that 3 champ clubs could make the step up to SL and hold their own. Obviously they will strengthen too. I personally don't think the gulf between the bottom of SL and top of the champ is that big of a gulf. I think it would be easily achieved.

 

I'm entirely with you on this and no your not dreaming.

 

As I say games will be won and lost in the accountants office.

 

There's no reason any of the superleague clubs inc the two who drop down next year and the four who will drop to play in the "Championship 8" cannot be surpassed by Featherstone Rovers.

 

But it all depends on who has the money and who goes for professionalism and who ends up dropping to part time.

 

I can imagine scenarios given all the SL directors who profess to have no money (Glover, Khan) and who are "standing down" and/or are giving up putting money in (Hughes, Hudgell, O'Connor, Fulton) whereby any of up to six clubs could go into a decline which Featherstone Rovers can take full advantage of assuming Mr. Nahaboo (Or Mr. Abbot at Halifax a.n.o) are prepared to make the annual investment to professionalise their club.

 

Or is there a rule that under the 2/12/3/8 scenario those investments cannot take place?????



#313 The Parksider

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:09 AM

How are you going to improve the player pool in the ten minutes you've got between the 12-phase and the 8-phase ?

Even if you have the money ......

 

Go professional now.

 

Let's see who has the money to walk the walk after all the talk talk talk......



#314 Griff

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:15 AM

Go professional now.
 
Let's see who has the money to walk the walk after all the talk talk talk......

Easy to say - but then you have to convince the players you want that you're the right option for them.

I remember Eagles speaking to Henry Paul. We were the Cup-holders at the time but he was always going to Bradford, even though we offered to match the Bulls' contract.
"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

#315 thundergaz

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:32 AM

Go professional now.

Let's see who has the money to walk the walk after all the talk talk talk......


I just hope if the 2 SL thing happens both leagues have the same salary caps. So it maybe will help with the yo yo effect.

#316 The Parksider

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:33 AM

Easy to say - but then you have to convince the players you want that you're the right option for them.

I remember Eagles speaking to Henry Paul. We were the Cup-holders at the time but he was always going to Bradford, even though we offered to match the Bulls' contract.

 

Well I agree entirely, it's easy to say, but  there's a big chance for the SL wannabees to show they can do it, and of course none will do it without the money.

 

If they have the money then of course many players will want to be in the 8 club superleague. We can see that now with Whitehead, Kopzjac, and various Cas & HKR players. Many will have to settle for being a bottom four SL player but they aren't daft as you indicate.

 

Why would any player sign pro with a club who is collapsing financially and refuse to sign for a very rich man whose SL2 club may be going places?

 

In the London thread we are told that our CC1 clubs can just grow and grow until they will be SL clubs, yet in this thread we assume those who are booted out of SL next year and those who have to drop out of SL for the "championship 8" competition will somehow stay as strong as they are for eternity??

 

Gaz asks why can't Fev surpass Cas?? If Nahaboo is happy to pop a million+ a year in whilst down at Castleford the directors are just looking to get their money back as the club struggle without new investment, then this to me very possible. The cracking lads who don't get a Super 8 gig can get on board at Fev.

 

If it's not possible then the middle 8 comp will be more predictable and pointless than predictable and poitless itself??.....


Edited by The Parksider, 25 June 2013 - 10:36 AM.


#317 Griff

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:39 AM

I just hope if the 2 SL thing happens both leagues have the same salary caps. So it maybe will help with the yo yo effect.

So clubs are shopping for players in the close season.

BottomofSuperleague City offer 22 games in the 12-phase against top clubs and say, yes they were rubbish last year, but this year they're expecting to get in the top eight. Worst case scenario is being in the middle eight.

TopChampionship Town offer 22 games in the second tier of 12 against some good, some mediocre sides and confidently expect to make the top four to get into the second eight - obviously no chance of making the top eight. Worst case scenario is the third group of eight.

Both offering the same money. Who do you sign for ?

Surely it's a no-brainer. And that's what you're up against. You either get second rate players or you pay over the odds.
"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

#318 The Parksider

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:52 AM


BottomofSuperleague City offer 22 games in the 12-phase against top clubs and say, yes they were rubbish last year, but this year they're expecting to get in the top eight. Worst case scenario is being in the middle eight.

TopChampionship Town offer 22 games in the second tier of 12 against some good, some mediocre sides and confidently expect to make the top four to get into the second eight - obviously no chance of making the top eight. Worst case scenario is the third group of eight.

Both offering the same money. Who do you sign for ?
 

 

The point is Mr. Nahaboo is promising to offer £1.65M to players

 

Several lowly SL clubs are probably only going to offer £1.1M for players



#319 sweaty craiq

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:08 AM

I will carry on shouting for two tens, Toulouse in the second tier. Second tier being FT with £600k funding and £1m min spend or 50% income whichever the greater, £5.2m from the clubs dropping and Toulouse should find their own finance to the end of the current deal if Sky will not go more. Applications to join every 3 years with 1 up/down between them and a clear objective to go 10/12 then 12/12, at 12/12 I would like to see 4 French clubs and 2 Welsh.

10/10 gives 13 home fixtures plus Magic, and a 5 team play off, week 1 -  2v5&3v4, Week 2- 1v2 and winners of 2-5 games, week 3 - loser 1v2 v winner of other, week 4 GF



#320 Griff

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:23 AM

The point is Mr. Nahaboo is promising to offer £1.65M to players
 
Several lowly SL clubs are probably only going to offer £1.1M for players

Fair point. Let's see if it happens.
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