Jump to content


TotalRL.com Shop Alert: Last Ordering Date for Free Pre-Xmas Delivery within UK: 2pm Thursday 18th December!!
Rugby League Yearbook 2014/15 The Forbidden Game League Express League Express Gift Card Rugby League World Rugby League World Gift Card
Buy Now £14.99 Buy Now £14.99 / Kindle Print / Digital Subscription Gift Cards Print / Digital Subscription Gift Cards



Photo
* * * * - 1 votes

Super League Restructure Discussion (Many Merged Threads)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
730 replies to this topic

#341 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 6,046 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:52 PM

Vince Lombardi wasn't running the sport as a whole, he was coach of a club.

Did the teams he played in those finals win ? No. So winning's not the only thing, is it ? If there'd been no loser, Vince wouldn't have won. So he was wrong, wasn't he ?

 

Winning was the only thing in Green Bay and the incredible support generated by all that disgusting winning kept this small market team at the top of the tree for a long time.

 

His ideas and philospohies permeated to the rest of the NFL and were seized on by the Aussies, Gibson from North Sydney I think and the aping of his strategies and ideas, adapted for RL, fueled the winning mentality and dominance of Aussie RL which has led to the present inferiority of the British game. Prior to that GB were top dogs for decades.

 

Just so you know , Lombardi was so revered that the Super Bowl trophy is named after him, so i guess the whole league embraced winning as a sporting concept.

 

A RL team from a lower division who followed his mantra and success in this new reorganised RL might just condemn a Hull or bradford to the 2nd division.



#342 Griff

Griff
  • Coach
  • 7,912 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:57 PM

Yes - but - once again - he wasn't running a competition. Just one of the competitors.

What's your plan to make every club winners every week ?
"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

#343 nadera78

nadera78
  • Coach
  • 3,052 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:01 PM

It's interesting that we've moved onto the NFL because that is exactly the structure (with tweaks here and there to suit our own situation) that I would advocate for Rugby League in Europe.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#344 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 6,046 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:12 PM

Yes - but - once again - he wasn't running a competition. Just one of the competitors.

What's your plan to make every club winners every week ?

 

Not every team can be a winner every week. But by adopting winning strategies and by giving every team THE OPPORTUNITY to win, then the winning and losing can shared creating a larger spread of successful clubs and the big winner will be the totality of the game.

 

I don't have a plan to make clubs winners. i will leave that to the movers and shakers. What's your plan ? Try to bring success based on a phlosophy of losing as being acceptable?

 

See the post below re the NFL/ the poster is right. ape the NFL. conferences would trump this 3 by 8 rubbish for sure.



#345 Griff

Griff
  • Coach
  • 7,912 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:14 PM

It's interesting that we've moved onto the NFL because that is exactly the structure (with tweaks here and there to suit our own situation) that I would advocate for Rugby League in Europe.

The capitalists would need to vote for communism.
"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

#346 Griff

Griff
  • Coach
  • 7,912 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:16 PM

Not every team can be a winner every week. But by adopting winning strategies and by giving every team THE OPPORTUNITY to win, then the winning and losing can shared creating a larger spread of successful clubs and the big winner will be the totality of the game.
 
I don't have a plan to make clubs winners. i will leave that to the movers and shakers. What's your plan ? Try to bring success based on a phlosophy of losing as being acceptable?
 
See the post below re the NFL/ the poster is right. ape the NFL. conferences would trump this 3 by 8 rubbish for sure.

If I'm running a club - like, say, just plucking a random example - Vince Lombardi - I want my club to win.

If I'm running a competition, I don't even have a club and I don't care who wins.

This thread is about competition structure.

Vince Lombardi and his philosophies have absolutely nothing to do with this thread.
"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

#347 nadera78

nadera78
  • Coach
  • 3,052 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:19 PM

The capitalists would need to vote for communism.

If it strengthened their hand (and by extension their position within the top tier) then I think enough of them would. I think we're approaching the point where enough people within the game have realised that we cannot hope to prosper simply by pointing at football and doing the same. 


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#348 Griff

Griff
  • Coach
  • 7,912 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:22 PM

If it strengthened their hand (and by extension their position within the top tier) then I think enough of them would. I think we're approaching the point where enough people within the game have realised that we cannot hope to prosper simply by pointing at football and doing the same.

I don't expect to see it in my lifetime.
"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

#349 nadera78

nadera78
  • Coach
  • 3,052 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:46 PM

I don't expect to see it in my lifetime.

Well Im not holding out for a return to the away side getting a share of the gate receipts, but we have certain elements already in place.

 

There is the long-established principle of splitting TV income equally, and of course licensing which has proved useful for some clubs although not others. It's not a huge leap to suggest that clubs could be convinced to sell all perimeter advertising or kit manufacturing deals centrally. And we've seen many of the clubs attempting to lessen the costs of player production, what if we did that in a different way too? Instead of 14 SL academies we could have 7/8 regional ones and a draft system at the end of it. It would be a lot cheaper to run and the players produced would probably be of a higher standard having been hot-housed. 

 

One or two SL clubs might not like it, but for the majority it would be a sensible way to proceed.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#350 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,704 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:00 PM

Well Im not holding out for a return to the away side getting a share of the gate receipts, but we have certain elements already in place.

 

There is the long-established principle of splitting TV income equally, and of course licensing which has proved useful for some clubs although not others. It's not a huge leap to suggest that clubs could be convinced to sell all perimeter advertising or kit manufacturing deals centrally. And we've seen many of the clubs attempting to lessen the costs of player production, what if we did that in a different way too? Instead of 14 SL academies we could have 7/8 regional ones and a draft system at the end of it. It would be a lot cheaper to run and the players produced would probably be of a higher standard having been hot-housed. 

 

One or two SL clubs might not like it, but for the majority it would be a sensible way to proceed.

 

Very interesting post, the best way forward is to treat Superleague as a single business and adopt policies that benefit the whole thing.

 

Otherwise it ends up splitting apart....

 

Oh hang on!!!



#351 nadera78

nadera78
  • Coach
  • 3,052 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:07 PM

Very interesting post, the best way forward is to treat Superleague as a single business and adopt policies that benefit the whole thing.

 

Otherwise it ends up splitting apart....

 

Oh hang on!!!

I know some people get wound up by your posting style (justifiably sometimes!) but you do make me chuckle.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#352 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,704 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:20 PM

I know some people get wound up by your posting style (justifiably sometimes!) but you do make me chuckle.

 

Guess what. I get wound up by some people's posting style (justifiably sometimes!)

 

Keep posting the good stuff......



#353 foozler

foozler
  • Coach
  • 1,003 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:06 PM

Well this guy seems to be confident on the numbers in SL going forward (end of 3rd paragraph):

 

http://www.ladepeche...per-league.html

 

Maybe the RFL are just going to have 1 big Superleague with everybody in it? Allez!



#354 Griff

Griff
  • Coach
  • 7,912 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:59 PM

Well Im not holding out for a return to the away side getting a share of the gate receipts, but we have certain elements already in place.
 
There is the long-established principle of splitting TV income equally, and of course licensing which has proved useful for some clubs although not others. It's not a huge leap to suggest that clubs could be convinced to sell all perimeter advertising or kit manufacturing deals centrally. And we've seen many of the clubs attempting to lessen the costs of player production, what if we did that in a different way too? Instead of 14 SL academies we could have 7/8 regional ones and a draft system at the end of it. It would be a lot cheaper to run and the players produced would probably be of a higher standard having been hot-housed. 
 
One or two SL clubs might not like it, but for the majority it would be a sensible way to proceed.

Fair points - but I'd've expected kit sales to vary wildly from club to club and it would be magnanimous of the likes of Wiggin, Leeds, Saints etc etc to throw away income.

Academies - yes, I can see the sense in that. On the other hand, the mortality tables I saw last week show a life expectancy of 25.4 years which seems too short a time (in more ways than one .....).
"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

#355 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 42,638 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:43 PM

Sport is about winning. as Vince Lombardi, coach of a very successful team from a very small market, namely Green Bay Wisconsin, said " Winning is not everything, it's the onl;y thing".

If you dont agree check with the US, Chinese GB and Russian olympic commitees or the New York Yankees baseball team or Man u, Man City, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, the All Blacks, the Kangaroos or even Wigan, Saints and Leeds.

The packers market is nationwide worldwide even
WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#356 TheBinman

TheBinman
  • Coach
  • 375 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:24 PM

This 3 times 8 system is a joke just everything about it makes me worry so much especially given the fact wood is in favour n pushing for it and this bloke is in charge of running this great game, this is not the answer. For me we either stick with licensing and possibly tweak it a little or go back to promotion relegation which I'm in favour off but we've got to make sure we reduce the step up from championship to super league. Like I've previously said for me 12 team super league including toulose (3 year exempt) with a 8 team full time licenced championship could b the best way thoughts?

#357 nadera78

nadera78
  • Coach
  • 3,052 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:08 PM

Fair points - but I'd've expected kit sales to vary wildly from club to club and it would be magnanimous of the likes of Wiggin, Leeds, Saints etc etc to throw away income.

Academies - yes, I can see the sense in that. On the other hand, the mortality tables I saw last week show a life expectancy of 25.4 years which seems too short a time (in more ways than one .....).

As I understand it many kit deals involve no money but the club gets the replicas at X price and sell them for Y, which is where they make their money on it. Now if, by selling all SL clubs' kit deals to one supplier, you could get each club Z amount of money as well as the above then I don't see why Wigan, Leeds, etc would necessarily be forgoing any income. 

 

In fact, I seem to recall that a league-wide deal was on the cards many years ago but was scuppered by the then Dave Whelan-owned Wigan. IIRC they had a strange deal going with JJB (both Whelan owned at the time, of course) whereby JJB made more money out of it than Wigan did. Lenegan put an end to that as soon as he took over. So this has been considered previously.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#358 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 6,046 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:47 AM

The packers market is nationwide worldwide even

So today fev, tomorrow the world.

#359 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,704 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:06 AM

 Like I've previously said for me 12 team super league including toulose (3 year exempt) with a 8 team full time licenced championship could b the best way thoughts?

 

As you've invited thoughts mine are that you are shifting deckchairs, and coming up with convenient numbers.

 

Look at the clubs. London, Cas, Widnes, HKR all have rich chairmen who have "stood down" from their boards as they find Superleague too rich for them personally. Widnes are shoring things up but the other three are due to collapse as clubs move in for their best players.

 

Equally Bradford are skint and clubs are moving for their best, Kopzjac and Whitehead, Bateman coveted, Lulia to go home. Wakefield have no money but the fans are still on board hoping for Newmarket where nothing is happening.

 

Your top eight championship clubs currently include five "feeder" clubs and these clubs are nurseries for the top clubs with the quality young lads from Leigh going to Wigan and the Fev lad also mooted to leave for Superleague.

 

I can count eight clubs currently who have the finance and investment to compete, and those eight are slowly picking every decent player they can off the rest whether quality players from failed SL clubs or rising stars from CC clubs.

 

Monetary problems, player shortages and disparate attendances are the problems here, not a wrong number of clubs in each division. In fact 3 x 8 may just reflect reality 8 rich clubs with high attendances and rich chairrmen, 8 independent smaller clubs with lower attendances and no rich chairmen putting in, and 8 feeder clubs.

 

If we are to play a numbers game the state of the clubs fits 3 x 8 perfectly. So is that a good idea? IMHO No.


Edited by The Parksider, 27 June 2013 - 06:10 AM.


#360 Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior
  • Coach
  • 5,238 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:41 AM

parky you are talking drivel about widnes, steve o'connor has stood down as chairman to devote more time to his business but still remains the majority shareholder, we have another two investors who have come on board to take the club to a higher level. the new board members are both millionaire business men who have committed to invest in return for a stake in the club, so our board contains three millionaire business men and a council representative................hardly shoring things up is it??
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



https://scontent-a-l...276002364_n.jpg




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users