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Super League Restructure Discussion (Many Merged Threads)


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#21 brooza

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:30 AM

32 games to win the comp??

im sure the players union will have a view on that!! they've constantly called for less games..

i await plan E

I currently takes 31 games to win the comp. If they have 1 less game in the Challenge Cup, it's the same number of fixtures


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#22 Futtocks

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:39 AM


Whats wrong with consistency and keeping things as they are?


[conspiracy theory]Maybe all these alternatives are being floated to make people happier with what we've got now...[/conspiracy theory]

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#23 Dave T

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:47 AM

The 'stay as we are' option was one of the options, so obviously people are not happy with that.



#24 nadera78

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:54 AM

It just gets worse and worse every time the RFL dream up some new idea. Deary me.

 

IIRC SLE is still a separate body, controlled by the member clubs. If I were Chairman of one of the bigger clubs I'd be seriously considering canvassing support for moving away from the RFL again.


Edited by nadera78, 19 June 2013 - 08:56 AM.

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#25 Ponterover

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:55 AM

It'll do

 

Preferred the split after 11 games, but see the logic in providing more home games against better opposition for the top 12 clubs.

 

Might also make it a bit easier on the 2nd 12, not so many games against the fully funded clubs.



#26 hindle xiii

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:02 AM

I currently takes 31 games to win the comp. If they have 1 less game in the Challenge Cup, it's the same number of fixtures

In SL 6 teams have 27 games, the rest have between 28 and 31.

 

Under the new proposals, every team will have 30 games, some 31, some 32.

 

But yes, changing the Cup could reduce the games for each team by one but it's a change for the worse IMO introducing SL teams later.


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#27 a.n Other

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:12 AM

It'll do

Preferred the split after 11 games, but see the logic in providing more home games against better opposition for the top 12 clubs.

Might also make it a bit easier on the 2nd 12, not so many games against the fully funded clubs.

I agree

#28 Dave T

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:21 AM

It just gets worse and worse every time the RFL dream up some new idea. Deary me.

 

IIRC SLE is still a separate body, controlled by the member clubs. If I were Chairman of one of the bigger clubs I'd be seriously considering canvassing support for moving away from the RFL again.

 Or they could just use the democratic process and manage the situation.

 

If the bulk of clubs are not happy with the current structure, then something needs to be done.

 

I'd prefer 12 teams, 5 team playoff and 1 up 1 down - but we had that previously and people didn;t think it was right.



#29 hindle xiii

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:23 AM

I'm warming to it.

 

It's become a full season with 12 teams, with a form of relegation, followed by something similar to play-off mini leagues.


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#30 Dave T

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:27 AM

One thing I would do is have the Magic Weekend in the 2nd 'half' of the season after the split.

 

You could then have it as the launch of the 2nd stage with a set of fixtures like this:

 

 

Day 1

Salford v Widnes

Sheffield v London

Hull v Hull KR

Wigan v Warrington

 

Day 2

Featherstone v Castleford

Wakefield v Bradford

Catalan v Huddersfield

Saints v Leeds



#31 Dave T

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:28 AM

You could argue it becomes a full playoff system. 

I'm warming to it.

 

It's become a full season with 12 teams, with a form of relegation, followed by something similar to play-off mini leagues.



#32 XIII

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:33 AM

I would say I am also warming, although it is still Luke, to this idea. I like how it is a proper season, then basically adding an additional play off league, followed by the knockout playoffs. With there been 7 games in the 3x8 playoff league, magic would then then have to be moved so each team had 3 home and 3 away fixtures in the 3x8. Would it be feasible to switch the magic and challenge cup final weekends to allow this to fit?

#33 XIII

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:34 AM

One thing I would do is have the Magic Weekend in the 2nd 'half' of the season after the split.
 
You could then have it as the launch of the 2nd stage with a set of fixtures like this:
 
 
Day 1
Salford v Widnes
Sheffield v London
Hull v Hull KR
Wigan v Warrington
 
Day 2
Featherstone v Castleford
Wakefield v Bradford
Catalan v Huddersfield
Saints v Leeds


I agree here, and the suggestion of moving magic was posted just as I typed mine post up.

#34 Amber Avenger

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:43 AM

Best thing I’ve read on this subject thus far is the extended editorial in the current Forty 20 mag. Doesn’t completely bag the idea for the sake of it, but implies it’s pretty witless in the long term. It’s a solution that aims to please everyone and will end up pleasing nobody – the middle league after the split in particular. Worth reading whichever side of the fence you fall in this debate.

 

The changes reported to day seem initially to be a quick fix to a solution that itself is a quick fix to the problems of the sport. If you are going to split the leagues that late, why bother doing them at all? The advantages are so minimal it seems like lip service to the critics of an already pretty flimsy premise.


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#35 hindle xiii

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:43 AM

One thing I would do is have the Magic Weekend in the 2nd 'half' of the season after the split.

 

You could then have it as the launch of the 2nd stage with a set of fixtures like this:

 

 

Day 1

Salford v Widnes

Sheffield v London

Hull v Hull KR

Wigan v Warrington

 

Day 2

Featherstone v Castleford

Wakefield v Bradford

Catalan v Huddersfield

Saints v Leeds

Bring the Cup final forward too? Could slightly overload if it Cup, Magic and then GF all near the end of the season. (I already think the Cup final should be in July anyway)


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#36 hindle xiii

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:45 AM

The changes reported to day seem initially to be a quick fix to a solution that itself is a quick fix to the problems of the sport. If you are going to split the leagues that late, why bother doing them at all? The advantages are so minimal it seems like lip service to the critics of an already pretty flimsy premise.

This is the bit why I'm not overly conviced by it. Good point well made I believe the young folk of today say.


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#37 Viking Warrior

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:39 AM

one day someone will come up with an earth shattering idea about the way forward for our game. leaving things as they are and stop moving the goalposts and making silly rule changes at a whim. what about the clubs who have actually made an effort to modernise their business and stadia? this to me is pandering to small clubs who can't be bothered to move with the times........
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#38 The Parksider

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:46 AM

It just gets worse and worse every time the RFL dream up some new idea. Deary me.IIRC SLE is still a separate body, controlled by the member clubs. If I were Chairman of one of the bigger clubs I'd be seriously considering canvassing support for moving away from the RFL again.

 

It's been suggested that the clubs should go for whatever is decided by a "democratic process". However for me the reality is feeder clubs get no votes, and the destiny of these changes will be in the hands of the chairmen who back the successful clubs.

 

"Tail wagging the dog" would be the democratic approach as Padge puts it, and so what has been proposed looks to me to be the eight leading SL clubs getting their way 100%. For some time it has been rumoured and half confirmed by Mr. Hudgell that the SL clubs want to get back to a 12 club league, and in this proposal they get that.

 

Not enough fixtures/revenue? The big eight then get extra fixtures against each other and can sell a longer season on the season tickets and dump the early rounds of the play offs which were poor for crowds.

 

Seriously, what's not to like if you are Leeds, Hull, Catalans, Fartown, Wigan, Saints, Wire and Salford???



#39 Viking Warrior

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:48 AM

It's been suggested that the clubs should go for whatever is decided by a "democratic process". However for me the reality is feeder clubs get no votes, and the destiny of these changes will be in the hands of the chairmen who back the successful clubs.
 
"Tail wagging the dog" would be the democratic approach as Padge puts it, and so what has been proposed looks to me to be the eight leading SL clubs getting their way 100%. For some time it has been rumoured and half confirmed by Mr. Hudgell that the SL clubs want to get back to a 12 club league, and in this proposal they get that.
 
Not enough fixtures/revenue? The big eight then get extra fixtures against each other and can sell a longer season on the season tickets and dump the early rounds of the play offs which were poor for crowds.
 
Seriously, what's not to like if you are Leeds, Hull, Catalans, Fartown, Wigan, Saints, Wire and Salford???

salford????????
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#40 intheshed

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:49 AM

One thing I would do is have the Magic Weekend in the 2nd 'half' of the season after the split.

You could then have it as the launch of the 2nd stage with a set of fixtures like this:


Day 1
Salford v Widnes
Sheffield v London
Hull v Hull KR
Wigan v Warrington

Day 2
Featherstone v Castleford
Wakefield v Bradford
Catalan v Huddersfield
Saints v Leeds


I think ultimately they would have to move MM to the '2nd phase' of the season, as you suggest, for this latest version to be workable.

I can see the proposed format being usable in tiers 1 & 3, where points from the opening phase of the season could be carried over. In tier 2 carrying over points would be a non starter so it would leave a 7 game season, to determine promotion or relegation, in which half the teams have 4 homes games whilst the rest only have 3. Moving MM would at least even up the number of home and away fixtures. It would also reduce the total number of rounds by one.

That said I cant help but be concerned that the focus appears, publically at least, to be on league structures. The fundamental problem is surely the gulf in funding/budgets that currently exsists. If that is not addressed directly then any fiddling with structure strikes me as a rather elaborate exercise in deckchair rearrangement.




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