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Super League Restructure Discussion (Many Merged Threads)


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#41 The Parksider

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:54 AM

salford????????

 

Come on VW, Dr. Koukash has started his assault on the transfer system and is prepared to pay hard cash transfer fees to clubs who are skint, and may lack ambition, for their best players. He says himself he already has six players lined up and the deals for next seasons SL player roundabout are starting to come through, so why would he not assemble a strong squad for Mr. Noble.

 

Who beyond the eight I mention are in a position to resist the good Doctors advances and get themselves in a stronger position than Salford will be come next February??



#42 shrek

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:59 AM

All these alternatives feel abit contrived to me, I think I'm in the 12 team home and away, 5 team play-off camp myself, which probably seems a little old fashioned compared to some of the suggestions!


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#43 hindle xiii

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:08 AM

All these alternatives feel abit contrived to me, I think I'm in the 12 team home and away, 5 team play-off camp myself, which probably seems a little old fashioned compared to some of the suggestions!

It all about how the clubs can get more money from more fixtures though.


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#44 Viking Warrior

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:11 AM

Come on VW, Dr. Koukash has started his assault on the transfer system and is prepared to pay hard cash transfer fees to clubs who are skint, and may lack ambition, for their best players. He says himself he already has six players lined up and the deals for next seasons SL player roundabout are starting to come through, so why would he not assemble a strong squad for Mr. Noble.
 
Who beyond the eight I mention are in a position to resist the good Doctors advances and get themselves in a stronger position than Salford will be come next February??

widnes for one. we won the battle with salford for rhys hanbury's new contract. reports were that he was nailed on to go to barton bridge but hey look what happened a new 3 year deal with the vikings. also with the new additions to the board making it 3 multi millionaires backing the club and new investment coming into the club we are in a much stronger position than most of our rivals.

Edited by Viking Warrior, 19 June 2013 - 11:13 AM.

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#45 Griff

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:16 AM

I can see the proposed format being usable in tiers 1 & 3, where points from the opening phase of the season could be carried over. In tier 2 carrying over points would be a non starter so it would leave a 7 game season, to determine promotion or relegation, in which half the teams have 4 homes games whilst the rest only have 3.

Bearing in mind the vast difference in funding, carrying over the phase 1 points to phase 2 in the middle division might be a sensible course of action.

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#46 John Drake

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:29 AM

That said I cant help but be concerned that the focus appears, publically at least, to be on league structures. The fundamental problem is surely the gulf in funding/budgets that currently exsists. If that is not addressed directly then any fiddling with structure strikes me as a rather elaborate exercise in deckchair rearrangement.

 

I agree with you.

 

If league restructures solved anything, we wouldn't need to keep having them.


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#47 intheshed

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:33 AM

Bearing in mind the vast difference in funding, carrying over the phase 1 points to phase 2 in the middle division might be a sensible course of action.


That could be fun!! If you applied SL points (2pts for a win 1 for a draw) to the current champs table & factor in that champs have only 16 rounds to SL's 18, Fev currently 4th would be something like 10 points ahead of Bradford, who are currently 9th in SL.

Whilst its not a perfect comparison its also not impiossible that under a carry over system tier 2 would begin with the top four already mathematically guaranteed.

#48 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:41 AM

I agree with you.

If league restructures solved anything, we wouldn't need to keep having them.

Isn't that like saying "if petrol solved anything, my car wouldn't keep needing it"?
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#49 Dave T

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:43 AM

That's a good point, hadn't considered the actual timing, but yes the Wembley trip may benefit from being in June? 

Bring the Cup final forward too? Could slightly overload if it Cup, Magic and then GF all near the end of the season. (I already think the Cup final should be in July anyway)



#50 John Drake

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:45 AM

Isn't that like saying "if petrol solved anything, my car wouldn't keep needing it"?

 

No. You put petrol in your car, it achieves something immediate and productive.

 

Faffing around with league structures rarely ever achieves what it promised, because as intheshed suggests, it isn't tackling the main problem.


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#51 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:45 AM

Like I've said before, I don't mind the idea of the split. I find it intriguing.

But never at the expense of the cup. SL clubs starting a round later is just not an option. It would kill the cup for the lower leagues. Seeding the cup at the 4th round may help if there needs to be an extra fixture (have it mid week).
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#52 Dave T

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:48 AM

The changes reported to day seem initially to be a quick fix to a solution that itself is a quick fix to the problems of the sport. If you are going to split the leagues that late, why bother doing them at all? The advantages are so minimal it seems like lip service to the critics of an already pretty flimsy premise.

It does of course depend on what you percieve the advantages to be. At the moment nothing is proven and you could easily put a case forward with all sorts of outlandishly positive advantages, similarly you could put a negative case forward - realistically it would probably be somewhere in between .

 

The idea now being put forward is pretty much identical to the one I suggested last year, however I think 12 teams per division is 2 too many for this to work well.



#53 Viking Warrior

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:48 AM

just exactly what is wrong with the present structure? in my opinion nothing what so ever, it is a successful and well defined competition which allows clubs to develop and evolve as opposed to panic buying to stave off relegation and such...
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



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#54 Dave T

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:54 AM

No. You put petrol in your car, it achieves something immediate and productive.

 

Faffing around with league structures rarely ever achieves what it promised, because as intheshed suggests, it isn't tackling the main problem.

 So what is the problem within the game?

 

Wherever I read about RL I hear these four main issues:

> lack of P&R means worthless games

> not enough intense games meaning we struggle internationally

> not enough commercial income

> Playoffs are too watered down (8 out of 14 teams)

 

These issues are repeated over and over again.

 

So, lets look at whether one of these proposals would asssist with these issues:

 

1 - P&R brought back, more ruthlesness due to the 'split' - more worthless games - TICK

2 - Fewer teams initially, after the split, teams play others at their level - more intense, close games - TICK

3 - Commercial income - with top teams playing each other, you could argue crowds increase, game becomes more attractive to sponsors and commercial partners. TICK (sort of!)

4 - if after the 2nd phase it is top 4 in a semi final situation then these should be played in front of larger crowds. TICK

 

Ultimately, it depends what you consider as the main issues, but I certainly think there could be a case to say that this is absolutely tackling the main issues that are repeated by the media and many fans over and over again about SL.



#55 Dave T

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:57 AM

It's been suggested that the clubs should go for whatever is decided by a "democratic process". However for me the reality is feeder clubs get no votes, and the destiny of these changes will be in the hands of the chairmen who back the successful clubs.

 

"Tail wagging the dog" would be the democratic approach as Padge puts it, and so what has been proposed looks to me to be the eight leading SL clubs getting their way 100%. For some time it has been rumoured and half confirmed by Mr. Hudgell that the SL clubs want to get back to a 12 club league, and in this proposal they get that.

 

Not enough fixtures/revenue? The big eight then get extra fixtures against each other and can sell a longer season on the season tickets and dump the early rounds of the play offs which were poor for crowds.

 

Seriously, what's not to like if you are Leeds, Hull, Catalans, Fartown, Wigan, Saints, Wire and Salford???

 I think you over-state the power of these 8 clubs. If they wanted to be totally ruthless you would try and get in a 10 team league with a token payment to the lower teams.

 

It would appear to me that many proposals see some of the lower clubs getting the biggest benefits.



#56 RS

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:57 AM

Whats wrong with consistency and keeping things as they are?

Wash your mouth out

No we need to deprive 2 towns or cites of SL presence so the remaining clubs can pay 2 of their NRL reserve graders with the savings

#57 John Drake

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:00 PM

 So what is the problem within the game?

 

Lack of money.


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#58 Dave T

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:01 PM

just exactly what is wrong with the present structure? in my opinion nothing what so ever, it is a successful and well defined competition which allows clubs to develop and evolve as opposed to panic buying to stave off relegation and such...

 Whilst I agree in general - clubs are not happy with it (they will vote for the current structure if they are), fans are constantly complaining about it (no P&R, playoff structure etc), the media complain about it (same as the fans) and chairmen and players complain about it.

We can't keep ignoring all these voices, even if they are in a tiny minority, they are prominent voices dragging the game down.



#59 Dave T

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:02 PM

Lack of money.

 

So there is an argument that more intense, meaningful games between teams an similar levels will increase crowds and revenue streams.



#60 John Drake

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:08 PM

So there is an argument that more intense, meaningful games between teams an similar levels will increase crowds and revenue streams.

 

Yes, I know. I've heard it said before every other league restructure there has ever been. But here we are again.


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