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Super League Restructure Discussion (Many Merged Threads)


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#601 sheddings69

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:37 PM

Wait, hasnt that spread happened in a time when we havent had automatic P&R?

4 up and 4 down might have seen new clubs come into the game, but it also saw them vanish without trace as well didnt it.

What mystical club promoted to the top flight and then relegated disappeared without a trace?

Edited by sheddings69, 06 July 2013 - 02:24 PM.


#602 Ant

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 04:48 PM

All the ones Lobby mentioned?

P&R had 30 year go at taking the game forward and failed on every single measurable facet

Why the hell do we want to go back to it?

#603 sheddings69

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 04:59 PM

Not having it, a P&R myth created by the pro licensing brigade, there may be one or two went to the wall but they certainly didn't disappear; muck like the clubs that have done exactly that since licensing.

I don't think we should go back to P&R but not because clubs went bust....they always have and always will do. What do you think would happen if a club was replaced in SL after a round of licensing.....exactly the same as if they'd been relegated of course. However, we'll never know as the Turkeys won't vote for Christmas!!

If the people at the top table want to keep their exclusive club fine....but be up front and honest about it, shut the door and let the rest get on with life.

Edited by sheddings69, 06 July 2013 - 05:01 PM.


#604 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 05:01 PM

All the people I speak to love the product on the pitch (why wouldn't you) but think the set up of the league system is a joke. The words boring and repetitive are often used. Hence the franchising reference - be open and honest about who you want in and out and just get on with it. Lip service licensing does the game no favours whatsoever.

all the people you know eh? You've canvassed all the people you know. OK

 

so these people you know find the league system is a joke(that's two up on the cliche bingo card, but no matter) and they all  use the term boring and repetitive. What a coincidence. And don't tell me let me guess, this is what you think.

 

you have a very quirky definition of the word laughing stock.

and you either know very few people or you only talk about one thing to the people in your world

 

I know hundreds of people, family, friends, acquaintences, business contacts.

 

The vast majority of them don't give a feck about rugby league

others like it and don't have a view on what ges on in the baqckground, others like it and  have various opinions on the way it is structured

 

a lot of them I don't even get into conversation with about rugby league, why would I? Other things are interesting and enjoyable as well. 

 

some don't like it

some apply the wordsthat  'all the people you know' apply to rugby league, to other activities whether it's sport-union, soccer, cricket, mostor racing tend to figure quite often, art- I'm going to the Lowrey exhibition at the Tate in a couple of weeks despite, or maybe because of the criticisms of his work by some of my friends, music- some of the most obscure forms of modern jazz cop for it quite a lot, tv-mea culpa I'm a Holby City and Crime drama freak, and so on and so on.

 

none of these criticisms merited or not ammount tp any of these activiries being a laughing stock.


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#605 sheddings69

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 05:04 PM

all the people you know eh? You've canvassed all the people you know. OK

so these people you know find the league system is a joke(that's two up on the cliche bingo card, but no matter) and they all use the term boring and repetitive. What a coincidence. And don't tell me let me guess, this is what you think.

you have a very quirky definition of the word laughing stock.
and you either know very few people or you only talk about one thing to the people in your world

I know hundreds of people, family, friends, acquaintences, business contacts.

The vast majority of them don't give a feck about rugby league
others like it and don't have a view on what ges on in the baqckground, others like it and have various opinions on the way it is structured

a lot of them I don't even get into conversation with about rugby league, why would I? Other things are interesting and enjoyable as well.

some don't like it
some apply the wordsthat 'all the people you know' apply to rugby league, to other activities whether it's sport-union, soccer, cricket, mostor racing tend to figure quite often, art- I'm going to the Lowrey exhibition at the Tate in a couple of weeks despite, or maybe because of the criticisms of his work by some of my friends, music- some of the most obscure forms of modern jazz cop for it quite a lot, tv-mea culpa I'm a Holby City and Crime drama freak, and so on and so on.

none of these criticisms merited or not ammount tp any of these activiries being a laughing stock.


Brilliant!!

#606 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 05:04 PM

Not having it, a P&R myth created by the pro licensing brigade, there may be one or two went to the wall but they certainly didn't disappear; muck like the clubs that have done exactly that since licensing.

I don't think we should go back to P&R but not because clubs went bust....they always have and always will do. What do you think would happen if a club was replaced in SL after a round of licensing.....exactly the same as if they'd been relegated of course. However, we'll never know as the Turkeys won't vote for Christmas!!

If the people at the top table want to keep their exclusive club fine....but be up front and honest about it, shut the door and let the rest get on with life.

I didn't realise I was a member of a brigade: are you sure it isn't a mob?

 

all rugby league competitions have to have ways of admitting and rejecting clubs from them


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#607 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 05:07 PM

Brilliant!!

Cop out!


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#608 sheddings69

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 05:23 PM

I didn't realise I was a member of a brigade: are you sure it isn't a mob?

all rugby league competitions have to have ways of admitting and rejecting clubs from them


Which is exactly what we are debating is it not? Please read the post again and argue the facts. Or are you 'copping out'?!!

#609 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 05:28 PM

Which is exactly what we are debating is it not? Please read the post again and argue the facts. Or are you 'copping out'?!!

but you say this in your previous post

 

"If the people at the top table want to keep their exclusive club fine....but be up front and honest about it, shut the door and let the rest get on with life"


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#610 sheddings69

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 05:30 PM

but you say this in your previous post

"If the people at the top table want to keep their exclusive club fine....but be up front and honest about it, shut the door and let the rest get on with life"


....and you agree that clubs have gone bust when P&R was in place and also since it was scrapped?

#611 Ant

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 06:09 PM

Yes they have - the difference being under licensing they have had the ability to rebuild and carry on

Maybe they should finally say "if your not in Superleage now and are a club near the m62 then you'll never be in"

It would at least give the likes of lobbygober a real reason to choke on their own vitriol

#612 sheddings69

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 06:17 PM

Yes they have - the difference being under licensing they have had the ability to rebuild and carry on

Maybe they should finally say "if your not in Superleage now and are a club near the m62 then you'll never be in"

It would at least give the likes of lobbygober a real reason to choke on their own vitriol


Again, name me one club that didn't rebuild and carry on prior to licensing......nonsense, they all did. It's an anti P&R myth.

Openly franchising I have no problem with - lip service licensing I do.

#613 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:31 AM

....and you agree that clubs have gone bust when P&R was in place and also since it was scrapped?

why wouldn't I? It's a matter of history.

 

the point is, yet again, that licensing and the demands that it makes means that there are incentives not to be stupid financially, to act professionally, to plan for the future and so on.

 

This doers not mean clubs wont get into trouble financially that would be impossible outside the world of fantasy: the Harris situation being an example

 

edit: you make a good point about open franchising it would certainly prevent the horrific likelihood of haaving Wakefield, castleford and Featherstone all in the elite competition.


Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 07 July 2013 - 08:34 AM.

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#614 JohnM

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:39 AM

The juice used to burn your chin!! Very happy days - I miss rugby league

It's still there..watched by more people than ever..Sky +Premier Sport + BBC TV + paying spectators. Long term growth since 1995

#615 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:41 AM

It's still there..watched by more people than ever..Sky +Premier Sport + BBC TV + paying spectators. Long term growth since 1995

and you can still freeze your nads off early season.


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#616 JohnM

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:52 AM

That's summer rugby for you!

#617 Ant

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:55 AM

Again, name me one club that didn't rebuild and carry on prior to licensing......nonsense, they all did. It's an anti P&R myth.

Openly franchising I have no problem with - lip service licensing I do.


Halifax
Oldham
Workington

Off the top of my head - none of them close to troubling the top flight and haven't been in years

Under licensing they'd have stability & time to address their finances while remaining in Superleague...

#618 sheddings69

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:39 AM

Halifax
Oldham
Workington

Off the top of my head - none of them close to troubling the top flight and haven't been in years

Under licensing they'd have stability & time to address their finances while remaining in Superleague...


....and that promotes prudent financial management? Basically you can spend what you want but don't worry lads because you won't lose your place in SL (even though its actually one of the criteria we measure your license application on). Hilarious!

Your reference to clubs disappearing has changed all of a sudden - as far as I can see Oldham, Halifax and Town are still around. So are Crusaders of a sort. I also think you'll find that despite relegation Oldham were 80 mins from a return to SL despite starting from scratch 4 years earlier.....of course there was P&R then so it was possible.

#619 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:41 AM


So how badly would clubs have to do in order for their licences to be revoked? Over the past five years have all licensed SL clubs stabilised and addressed their finances?

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 07 July 2013 - 09:43 AM.

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#620 Ant

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:51 AM

No, clearly not

But the thing that is noticeable in this debate is that the ONLY remotely solid argument the "pro P&R" lobby have is that licensing doesn't appear to have stopped clubs finances being rubbish

And this is perhaps true. Though what is conveniently forgotten is that the clubs that have failed this test would have failed it no matter what the league structure was

The simple, provable & quantifiable fact is that licensing has been the best thing to happen to Rugby League in my lifetime

No amount of rosy eyed anecdotes of mythical halcyon days - that are proven wrong time and time again when actual facts are used - will change this reality

But arguing with those who want a return to automatic P&R is like arguing with the religious. Unquestioning faith will accept no amount of evidence they are wrong.




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