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#41 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:19 PM

Never say never , but there would have to be massive changes to tempt us.
Just to give you something to think about how many youth and junior leagues are still full members ?
Mrs Land was re elected as youth rep today as youth chair when did she last hold a youth and junior meeting ?
How many Y & J forums as she attended representing the association /

Once you find the answers you can then begin to understand why I feel there needs to be changes in the voting systems at Barla so that we get the right people in the right jobs .

 

I don't think that I need to use search engines for the answers so I would make an educated guess and just add a big fat zero to the end of your questions and probably hit three bells.

 

The thing is though why did so many leagues just turn away from the association because from what i see posted on the forums they're not in a good place right now.

 

There also seems to be a lot of passion from former members on the subject of BARLA so it does seem quite sad that so many leagues turned away - their votes could have made a difference today.



#42 del capo

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:46 AM

I don't think that I need to use search engines for the answers so I would make an educated guess and just add a big fat zero to the end of your questions and probably hit three bells.

 

The thing is though why did so many leagues just turn away from the association because from what i see posted on the forums they're not in a good place right now.

 

There also seems to be a lot of passion from former members on the subject of BARLA so it does seem quite sad that so many leagues turned away - their votes could have made a difference today.

 

 It is the feeling of powerlessness that has alienated the Playing Leagues Nev. The system at Barla is just stacked up against them.

 

More than 20 years ago the Board  ( Committee in those days ) were asked to become more democratic.  The simple idea was that every TEAM playing the game competitively ( ie over 11 at the time ) had TWO votes , one to be declared through their District league and one to be given via  their Playing league.

 

If members chose to block vote that would be up to them - the NCL for instance would have reflected any 'split ' according to their internal views - but at least it would have delivered to those working at the coal face as well as bonding the Districts.

 

Barla were too frightened at the prospect of giving so much power to the Juniors. They were wrong. The Juniors are run by wise heads at club level , and they remain the future of our game. True democracy is the greatest weapon for the amateurs against all outsiders , including the RFL.

 

Until Barla  modernises itself , talk of 'olive branches ' will be just that........anyone know which way Carlisle ARL voted yesterday ?



#43 TaxiEgg

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:17 PM

I don't think that I need to use search engines for the answers so I would make an educated guess and just add a big fat zero to the end of your questions and probably hit three bells.
 
The thing is though why did so many leagues just turn away from the association because from what i see posted on the forums they're not in a good place right now.
 
There also seems to be a lot of passion from former members on the subject of BARLA so it does seem quite sad that so many leagues turned away - their votes could have made a difference today.


In the case of Nwc 8-12s and 13-15s we were both downgraded to associate members by the Board of Management because we were both late in paying our association fees £40 as invoices were sent to the wrong addresses we both offered to pay as soon as it became apparent which the board rejected out of hand .
What did the Association achieve there ?
The 16-18s were taken out of BARLA all together by Hilary because in my opinion the board failed in a disgraceful attempt to discipline Hilary on a ridiculous charge .
All under the control of the outgoing chair , attempts have been made to temp us back but the Board have been unable to offer us anything better that what we have been able to achieve ourselves.

Think about it with us out of the way the board have achieved what ?

Edited by TaxiEgg, 24 June 2013 - 03:48 PM.


#44 del capo

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:27 PM

And BARLA famously once expelled the NCL  Taxi Egg. I think it was about 2004.  That went down well with the troops ......... :tongue:



#45 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:42 PM

Yes you can see by the replies from Taxi Egg and Del Capo that their particular relationships with BARLA were rocky to say the least.



#46 TaxiEgg

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:14 PM

I fully support the ethos of Barla being sport for all,  despite being put in the naughty corner as an association we still administer for the clubs who elect us and always strive to keep them informed .

I do not fully support the RFL purely and simply because their priority is to foster and develop the professional game at the expense of all else despite all their caressing of our EGOs I see beyond all that flannel.

 

But as an ex shop steward I understand fully the need to negotiate and concede to make gains for the people you represent , the main problem we face at the moment is because we the amateurs do not have a an organisation to do so  on our behalf we are left to fight a massive machine the RFL who are trying to bully us into agreements that are not in the best interest of the clubs we represent, I am hoping that under the new Barla Chair she will address the massive rift within the game try and get ALL the leagues back round the table clear out the deadwood and then ,begin to negotiate with the RFL to protect the best interest of the amateur game .

 

I live in hope .



#47 nec

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:35 PM



Until Barla modernises itself , talk of 'olive branches ' will be just that........anyone know which way Carlisle ARL voted yesterday ?

They abstained due to the minor issue of not existing.
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#48 gillmeister

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:48 PM

They abstained due to the minor issue of not existing.


CARLA have always paid there's and Carlisles share even though there's no presence in CARLA from Carlisle so as to be able to vote twice unless that changed this time?
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#49 Wilber

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:39 PM

As far as I know Gilly they voted along with the other 3 Cumbria votes

#50 mmp

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:03 AM

I've followed all this and have one question:

 

Why can it not be the case that CLUBs vote?

 

I'm absolutely sure the district league approach is out of date but I'm not convinced playing leagues can be representative of all their clubs on many issues while each league is different in size.  I could understand how a system of 'representative voting' emerged some time ago but it's 2013! It's not hard to communicate with EVERY club and to put in place a process and system where clubs actually get a say?   I'd also think that junior and open age sections should have separate votes as it's clear from following these threads that many feel BARLA has not appropriately listened to (or represented) junior rugby concerns.


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#51 Death to the Rah Rah's

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:34 AM

I think the first thing that the new Chair should do is to form a steering committee to take an indepth look at how BARLA is currently ran and to speak to the leagues they have left to try and find out where it all went wrong. This could take the form of open forums with regional leagues and their clubs as well as meeting with the respective league management committees.

If BARLA is to rebuild it needs input from the clubs, not just the league management, as in some cases they are as out of touch as the BARLA board have been over the last ten years.

From there they can identify what their role is in the modern game and develop it from there

#52 del capo

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:43 AM

I've followed all this and have one question:

 

Why can it not be the case that CLUBs vote?

 

I'm absolutely sure the district league approach is out of date but I'm not convinced playing leagues can be representative of all their clubs on many issues while each league is different in size.  I could understand how a system of 'representative voting' emerged some time ago but it's 2013! It's not hard to communicate with EVERY club and to put in place a process and system where clubs actually get a say?   I'd also think that junior and open age sections should have separate votes as it's clear from following these threads that many feel BARLA has not appropriately listened to (or represented) junior rugby concerns.

 

You're probably right.

 

But each club is different in size as well , which is why I think it should be each team voting instead , to be truly democratic.

 

But it ain't going to happen. Turkeys don't vote for christmas , especially with £750 k in the Bank......



#53 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:24 AM

You're probably right.

 

But each club is different in size as well , which is why I think it should be each team voting instead , to be truly democratic.

 

But it ain't going to happen. Turkeys don't vote for christmas , especially with £750 k in the Bank......

 

Or have a phone consultation just like the RFL (with £29,000,000 of Sport England money) did on summer



#54 tim2

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:09 AM

Or have a phone consultation just like the RFL (with £29,000,000 of Sport England money) did on summer


To be honest that was more than most NGBs do when they take big decisions. The FA, RFU, EWCB, LTA and others get on with governing the sport from top to bottom - not always all that well, but at least you know who's in charge. Having separate governing bodies is ridiculous, but the only way that this can be resolved once and for all is if the RFL proves that it can governs all aspects of the game equally. I have met people at the RFL who I know have the health of amateur RL at heart, but then again I haven't met people from the performance department, and I've witnessed the actions of professional clubs so the jury is definitely out on that one for me.

Having never been part of BARLA, I and my club watch this stuff from the sidelines and wonder what the heck is going on. BARLA seems to be in complete denial of the true situation and the opportunity to effectively represent the interests of ALL community clubs across the UK seems to be further away than ever.

The £29 million pounds has been spent, and had to be spent on very specific items agreed by Sport England. What is the purpose of BARLA holding that much cash? Why indeed would any playing league hold large amounts of reserve cash?
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#55 Marauder

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:15 PM

To be honest that was more than most NGBs do when they take big decisions. The FA, RFU, EWCB, LTA and others get on with governing the sport from top to bottom - not always all that well, but at least you know who's in charge. Having separate governing bodies is ridiculous, but the only way that this can be resolved once and for all is if the RFL proves that it can governs all aspects of the game equally. I have met people at the RFL who I know have the health of amateur RL at heart, but then again I haven't met people from the performance department, and I've witnessed the actions of professional clubs so the jury is definitely out on that one for me.

Having never been part of BARLA, I and my club watch this stuff from the sidelines and wonder what the heck is going on. BARLA seems to be in complete denial of the true situation and the opportunity to effectively represent the interests of ALL community clubs across the UK seems to be further away than ever.

The £29 million pounds has been spent, and had to be spent on very specific items agreed by Sport England. What is the purpose of BARLA holding that much cash? Why indeed would any playing league hold large amounts of reserve cash?

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#56 Marauder

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:18 PM

Or have a phone consultation just like the RFL (with £29,000,000 of Sport England money) did on summer

 

 

When the consultation was made we where running two teams and had around 70 players signed on, not one of our players or committee got a phone call, letter or email regarding their thoughts, "Very selective"


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#57 Marauder

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:30 PM

You're probably right.

 

But each club is different in size as well , which is why I think it should be each team voting instead , to be truly democratic.

 

But it ain't going to happen. Turkeys don't vote for christmas , especially with £750 k in the Bank......

Why should a club with 10 teams have 10 times the voting rights over a pub team, in theory 50% of the NCL could out vote a complete regional league (lets not forget many regional league teams only want a game every week and don't want to be a wannabee professional club.

 

I was thinking about this today on my way home from Leigh and the problem is a massive one, it could probably be related to the problem to find a leader in Afghanistan, maybe a system similar to the one used there could be adopted.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#58 Marauder

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:48 PM

And BARLA famously once expelled the NCL  Taxi Egg. I think it was about 2004.  That went down well with the troops ......... :tongue:

Quick question without going round the houses or courtrooms, If BARLA asked you to sit round the table to talk would you and even a bigger "IF" ever lead the NCL back into the fold on a positive result from the talks ?


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#59 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:36 PM

Quick question without going round the houses or courtrooms, If BARLA asked you to sit round the table to talk would you and even a bigger "IF" ever lead the NCL back into the fold on a positive result from the talks

 

Who would make the first move



#60 del capo

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:53 PM

Why should a club with 10 teams have 10 times the voting rights over a pub team, in theory 50% of the NCL could out vote a complete regional league (lets not forget many regional league teams only want a game every week and don't want to be a wannabee professional club.

 

I was thinking about this today on my way home from Leigh and the problem is a massive one, it could probably be related to the problem to find a leader in Afghanistan, maybe a system similar to the one used there could be adopted.

 Because they are ten times as big Marauder.

 

If you consider the players as the ultimate consumer to whom we are responsible for the delivery of our product  - the game - then it clearly makes sense. They should not be disadvantaged because they join a ' bigger ' club . And please do not assume that the juniors in a club would necessarily follow the Open Age on a particular issue - ask Taxi Egg.....

 

But you are  I am afraid following the Barla ' control ' mentality , Rather  a small  subservient , or even non existent , District League  for a vote than the absolute freedom and fresh air approach  that I advocate . Sure it might be chaos for a while , but ,hey ,isn't that how Barla started ?  And claimed the moral high ground in the game as a consequence ?

 

Nev and Marauder the NCL will talk to anyone anytime to advance our game .We are comfortable where we are.....previous posts have suggested  the new Chair needs to get around.......she will not be rebuffed if she wants to come to see us......






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