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#301 super_reff

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 01:37 PM

Personally I'm enjoying summer rugby, it's good to know that on a Saturday your game is going to be on.

If clubs can't cash in on weekends like last weekend and this weekend when the weather is like it is then that's their problem.

Get kids games on as curtain raisers, possibly double up with the 2nd team game - make it an event. Ice creams, BBQ foods, games and events that the kids and adults can get involved with. Beats just turning up at 2.30 and going home at 4.30.
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#302 Spidey

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:13 PM

When did you actually look at the offerings (sounds like when everyone was being spun the saviour of the game is summer rugby)

 

Some of the advantages:

 

* Less cancellations due to weather - Check  (only one (maybe two) weekend(s) in two seasons have fallen foul of the weather 

* More revenue over the bar - Check (our turnover has increased year on year since the switch, (15% increase on last 12 months compared to the previous 12 months to be precise)

   - We can now better forecast our bar revenue, without the off chance in winter games get called off  (there are stil A teams games not being played, but not down to pitches)

  -  We now plan events in the winter that are not weather dependant:  Beer Festival, Presentation evenings, to protect the income in the off season

* Cheaper training costs - Check, 1-2 months winter facilities not required

 

At the older age groups there are issues with player availability, but in our experience its no worse than the two winter seasons that preceeded the summer switch

 

At the moment as a whole club its working for us, I'm by no means saying it works for everybody.  Clubs have to decide whats best for them (and not shoot down clubs who are on the other side of the fence)


Edited by Spidey, 10 July 2013 - 02:17 PM.


#303 LordCharles

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:55 PM

* Less cancellations due to weather - Check  (only one (maybe two) weekend(s) in two seasons have fallen foul of the weather *

 

But far more cancellations due to player unavailability........fact!

 

Your NCL team has already postponed two of its League fixtures this season...........fact!

 

And I don't know where you played your games last summer but it was a complete wash out in June & July and a considerable number of fixtures were postponed over several weeks........fact!


Edited by LordCharles, 10 July 2013 - 03:00 PM.


#304 old fiddle

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:04 PM

I have been reading this forum with interest for many years without contributing.

 

A recurring theme is always the future of the game.

 

In my opinion there are too many vested interest and RFL/SL salaries to protect for the right solution ever to be achieved but I will have a stab.

 

I know it looks very much like how it was pre SL but here goes.

 

Tier 1 Professional teams

All teams including championship to run A team and under 19s, the reserves made up of the best under 19s  and squad members who cant make 1st team A team. Triallists allowed in all teams.

 

Championship 1 to use trialists from amateur clubs, who can play for amateur club if not selected

 

NCL runs as a summer league in tandem with RFL. Any players who sign professional forms can return to original club to play if not selected(as long as the pro teams have a game). This will stop pro clubs freezing good players out of the game, especially youngsters  and ensure lads are playing rugby every weekend.

 

Barla runs in summer or winter whichever it chooses under same rules as NCL regarding pro teams.

 

Under 18s to operate under Barla rules in winter or summer.

 

No one is class as pro until they sign a contact of more than 1 year that is not dependant on number of games played, or pay as you play.

 

Disband community lions and have Barla run all amateur representative teams.

 

All players considered amateur again following a fixed period with an amateur club( say 3 or 4 years).

 

Amateur players encouraged to trial with pro clubs, to see if we can return to the days when someone can go from amateur to pro to full international.

 

Pro clubs will inevitably say they cannot afford to run 3 teams, but they will already have the squads and should utilise the best under 18s or amateurs (like the old days) where necessary.

 

I don’t think NCL would care much either way or the other.

 

Barla may not like the idea of so called pros moving freely between games but other than that I cannot see why this is simple system cannot work.  It does in Australia

 

Either way I look forward to some interesting debate and amendments until hopefully everyone agrees or is it RLs version of the Gaza strip.



#305 Marauder

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:23 PM

Personally I'm enjoying summer rugby, it's good to know that on a Saturday your game is going to be on.

If clubs can't cash in on weekends like last weekend and this weekend when the weather is like it is then that's their problem.

Get kids games on as curtain raisers, possibly double up with the 2nd team game - make it an event. Ice creams, BBQ foods, games and events that the kids and adults can get involved with. Beats just turning up at 2.30 and going home at 4.30.

You hit the biggest problem right on the nail (Weather)

 

Where you may get two or three weeks in the winter where a game is called off in the summer you are seeing 1st teams being propped up by 2nd team, U18's & even U16's, granted the 1st team fixtures are fulfilled but the knock on is games being cancelled further down the food chain, in other cases teams have gone and played short of numbers.

 

What is the long term future for a competitive competition once it becomes normal for players to hit, miss & choose their games (This is not a dig, it's a genuine worry because I've seen it all happen at the club I've been with since 1977).


Edited by Marauder, 10 July 2013 - 07:25 PM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

#306 Spidey

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:26 PM

Your NCL team has already postponed two of its League fixtures this season...........fact!


Coventry game. Well documented

I'm struggling with the other game? So much for your "facts"

#307 LordCharles

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:10 PM

Sat 23rd 14:30 AWAY Wigan St Cuthberts League P    


Edited by LordCharles, 10 July 2013 - 09:10 PM.


#308 Marauder

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:11 PM

I have been reading this forum with interest for many years without contributing.

 

A recurring theme is always the future of the game.

 

In my opinion there are too many vested interest and RFL/SL salaries to protect for the right solution ever to be achieved but I will have a stab.

 

I know it looks very much like how it was pre SL but here goes.

 

Tier 1 Professional teams

All teams including championship to run A team and under 19s, the reserves made up of the best under 19s  and squad members who cant make 1st team A team. Triallists allowed in all teams.

 

Championship 1 to use trialists from amateur clubs, who can play for amateur club if not selected

 

NCL runs as a summer league in tandem with RFL. Any players who sign professional forms can return to original club to play if not selected(as long as the pro teams have a game). This will stop pro clubs freezing good players out of the game, especially youngsters  and ensure lads are playing rugby every weekend.

 

Barla runs in summer or winter whichever it chooses under same rules as NCL regarding pro teams.

 

Under 18s to operate under Barla rules in winter or summer.

 

No one is class as pro until they sign a contact of more than 1 year that is not dependant on number of games played, or pay as you play.

 

Disband community lions and have Barla run all amateur representative teams.

 

All players considered amateur again following a fixed period with an amateur club( say 3 or 4 years).

 

Amateur players encouraged to trial with pro clubs, to see if we can return to the days when someone can go from amateur to pro to full international.

 

Pro clubs will inevitably say they cannot afford to run 3 teams, but they will already have the squads and should utilise the best under 18s or amateurs (like the old days) where necessary.

 

I don’t think NCL would care much either way or the other.

 

Barla may not like the idea of so called pros moving freely between games but other than that I cannot see why this is simple system cannot work.  It does in Australia

 

Either way I look forward to some interesting debate and amendments until hopefully everyone agrees or is it RLs version of the Gaza strip.

You can come up with as many structures, formations and even a mid-week league as you like, the main problem is player availability during the summer months.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

#309 Spidey

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:19 PM

Sat 23rd 14:30

AWAY

Wigan St Cuthberts League

P


Wigan St Cuthberts pitch was under a foot of snow that weekend

#310 Marauder

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:22 PM

Wigan St Cuthberts pitch was under a foot of snow that weekend

That has to be a score draw with the winter league then :tease:


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#311 Spidey

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:24 PM

That has to be a score draw with the winter league then :tease:


Agreed (for once) ;)

#312 super_reff

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:27 PM

You hit the biggest problem right on the nail (Weather)
 
Where you may get two or three weeks in the winter where a game is called off in the summer you are seeing 1st teams being propped up by 2nd team, U18's & even U16's, granted the 1st team fixtures are fulfilled but the knock on is games being cancelled further down the food chain, in other cases teams have gone and played short of numbers.
 
What is the long term future for a competitive competition once it becomes normal for players to hit, miss & choose their games (This is not a dig, it's a genuine worry because I've seen it all happen at the club I've been with since 1977).


Work on creating a larger player pool. I'm not having it that players prefer to play in winter than summer.
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#313 Marauder

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:45 PM

Work on creating a larger player pool. I'm not having it that players prefer to play in winter than summer.

Did I say they did and how are you going to reverse the currant trend of p[layers having other things to do during the summer months ?


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#314 super_reff

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:08 PM

Did I say they did and how are you going to reverse the currant trend of p[layers having other things to do during the summer months ?


As I mentioned above, create an atmosphere that you can't create in winter. Bring a element of fun, family, outside activities etc I'm sure players would rather play in the summer and then after the game sit outside or hang around the club having a few cold ones afterwards as the sun is setting with their mates and/or their family and their kids if the club has put something on for the day.

As I say, obviously some weeks you may struggle, for one off events like stag doos, holidays, weddings and even most weeks you may have one or two missing due to family commitments but for the majority if you make it a good enough environment to be in then I'm convinced you'll get a strong, committed side out most weeks.
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#315 Marauder

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:56 PM

As I mentioned above, create an atmosphere that you can't create in winter. Bring a element of fun, family, outside activities etc I'm sure players would rather play in the summer and then after the game sit outside or hang around the club having a few cold ones afterwards as the sun is setting with their mates and/or their family and their kids if the club has put something on for the day.

As I say, obviously some weeks you may struggle, for one off events like stag doos, holidays, weddings and even most weeks you may have one or two missing due to family commitments but for the majority if you make it a good enough environment to be in then I'm convinced you'll get a strong, committed side out most weeks. 

well that's one week (2 weekends) for the stag do, one week for the wedding and on average people take two weeks holiday a years (3 weekends could be affected) times this by any number of players you like and it will always come down to not having or rarely having your first choice team add to this injuries and we are struggling, lets also look into your match day BBQ, stag do, wedding, holiday and a nagging wife and the myth of people stopping longer after the game has not been true, it seems that on the cold dark nights of winter when there is little else to do the supporters did stop for a couple more drinks than they do now.

 

 

I know players would sooner play in a settled side and at the best standard against an opposition who are also at full strength every time.


Edited by Marauder, 10 July 2013 - 11:02 PM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#316 super_reff

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:37 PM

well that's one week (2 weekends) for the stag do, one week for the wedding and on average people take two weeks holiday a years (3 weekends could be affected) times this by any number of players you like and it will always come down to not having or rarely having your first choice team add to this injuries and we are struggling, lets also look into your match day BBQ, stag do, wedding, holiday and a nagging wife and the myth of people stopping longer after the game has not been true, it seems that on the cold dark nights of winter when there is little else to do the supporters did stop for a couple more drinks than they do now.
 
 
I know players would sooner play in a settled side and at the best standard against an opposition who are also at full strength every time.


Give it a chance my friend. You're too negative. I see Leigh Miners are putting on a bit of a bumper day on Saturday - kids curtain raisers, first team quarter final at 2.30 and the 2nd team game at 4.30 plus BBQ, bouncy castle etc. I reckon it's the right way to go.
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#317 Marauder

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:55 AM

Give it a chance my friend. You're too negative. I see Leigh Miners are putting on a bit of a bumper day on Saturday - kids curtain raisers, first team quarter final at 2.30 and the 2nd team game at 4.30 plus BBQ, bouncy castle etc. I reckon it's the right way to go.

I spent 7 years on the committee (treasurer) of a RLC club, I handed over £19,250.46 (Not bad for a pub team) and that's after taking over a skint winter club and running both for the last 2 years of the 7 - what experience of the pit falls have you got of summer or winter or even the highs ?


Edited by Marauder, 11 July 2013 - 12:57 AM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

#318 super_reff

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:33 AM

I spent 7 years on the committee (treasurer) of a RLC club, I handed over £19,250.46 (Not bad for a pub team) and that's after taking over a skint winter club and running both for the last 2 years of the 7 - what experience of the pit falls have you got of summer or winter or even the highs ?


None but don't let that stop you getting on your high horse. You've also ran a skint winter club too - why are we bothering then? Let's just pack it all in.
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#319 Marauder

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:00 PM

None but don't let that stop you getting on your high horse. You've also ran a skint winter club too - why are we bothering then? Let's just pack it all in.

The Skint winter club in bank balance only, on paper they had assets (land) worth £250,000 at the time of amalgamation (guess what, "yep" I was the treasurer and instigated the purchase of the land way back in 1996 at a cost of £6,500 "whoops nearly fell off")


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#320 super_reff

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:23 PM

The Skint winter club in bank balance only, on paper they had assets (land) worth £250,000 at the time of amalgamation (guess what, "yep" I was the treasurer and instigated the purchase of the land way back in 1996 at a cost of £6,500 "whoops nearly fell off")


Well done.
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