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#341 sbull

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 11:36 AM

I still think its too early to say whether summer rugby has been a success or failure. Yes the game is struggling at certain ages and playing in the summer months doesn't suit some clubs, but it does suit others!!

We are now seeing the start of a generation of players who HAVE ONLY EXPERIENCED playing the game in summer.

The older winter players will gradually fade out of the game as they retire from the sport and I think only then we can step back and examine if the transition to summer has worked.

I've said before that BARLA has a role to play in the amateur game and its becoming ever more evident that they need to take the lead role in rebuilding the game. There are some very knowlegible people running the regional leagues and the BARLA board need to tap into that knowledge.

 

 

so the new generation of players will not get married are go on holidays are work longer hour because that when the building trade is at its peak not to mention all the other distractions.  interesting !!!

 

the 16 to 18 year olds who have voted with there feet,  FACT, do you expect them to come back when they have finished there education,

 

I agree summer does suit some, just not the majority but how the RFLNCL went about it they give clubs little chose but to follow



#342 Death to the Rah Rah's

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 11:49 AM

In case you haven't noticed people get married all year round now, and players will jump on a bus and go to Blackpool, Newcastle or wherever, whenever they want regardless of who your team are playing. Social activities happen in the winter months as well.

Maybe the answer is to form stronger regional conferences, then if players are unavailable for weddings or otherwise there is the flexibility to play midweek.

Likewise with fixture planning, there are certain weeks which could cause problems with all clubs such a V Festival, Lees Festival, T in the Park etc. so why not make those the free weekends?

A lot of the problems seem to stem from the league administrators inability to be a bit more flexible on fixtures.

In regard to the 16-18 year olds voting with their feet, has anyone (not the RFL) actually spoken to the 16-18 year olds to find out why they have stopped playing?

Anyone who thinks the games problems will be solved by moving back to winter en-block need a reality check. Summer is far from perfect and winter was no picnic either

#343 old fiddle

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:17 PM

It makes me wonder why they can't see the wood for the tree's when a thick tw @ like me can, every decision that's being made at Red Hall seems to be to preserve Super League at all costs and that can only be because the powerbase are preserving their own income before the good of the game.

Everyone is aware of the RL vested interest this is never going to change, so why plough on with your own regardless. move under 18,s to winter, allow free movement of juniors with pro clubs. This will automatically increase playing pool. If what everyone says is correct, all under 18, will be chomping at the bit, so problem 1 solved

 

Under 18,s can also double up with summer if they want to this should mean less reserve fixtures cancelled

 

Barla play in winter and NCL play in summer and players decide which league they want to play in,

 

Players are not interested in the politics, they have to want to play or not, unfortunatley the culture has changed dramaticaly from back in the day. a product has to be attractive and enjoyable

 

It may mean teams will go by the wayside or merge, but lets not kid ouselves that this never happened in winter

 

Think field of dreams, if they don,t come, then to be honest they didn,t really want to



#344 Marauder

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:04 PM

Everyone is aware of the RL vested interest this is never going to change, so why plough on with your own regardless. move under 18,s to winter, allow free movement of juniors with pro clubs. This will automatically increase playing pool. If what everyone says is correct, all under 18, will be chomping at the bit, so problem 1 solved

 

Under 18,s can also double up with summer if they want to this should mean less reserve fixtures cancelled

 

Barla play in winter and NCL play in summer and players decide which league they want to play in,

 

Players are not interested in the politics, they have to want to play or not, unfortunatley the culture has changed dramaticaly from back in the day. a product has to be attractive and enjoyable

 

It may mean teams will go by the wayside or merge, but lets not kid ouselves that this never happened in winter

 

Think field of dreams, if they don,t come, then to be honest they didn,t really want to

I take it you've had dealings with a junior/youth player who a pro club have taken a fancy too - I have, they tell them not to play with their amateur club so they don't get injured.

 

Have you had dealings with players playing all year round, I have and trust me they become lethargic and start missing games because they have had to much rugby.

 

Pub teams where always going to the wall in winter, I can not recall the top well establish NCL sides struggling like they are now.


Edited by Marauder, 12 July 2013 - 03:05 PM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#345 super_reff

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:31 PM

I take it you've had dealings with a junior/youth player who a pro club have taken a fancy too - I have, they tell them not to play with their amateur club so they don't get injured.
 
Have you had dealings with players playing all year round, I have and trust me they become lethargic and start missing games because they have had to much rugby.
 
Pub teams where always going to the wall in winter, I can not recall the top well establish NCL sides struggling like they are now.


Which top NCL sides are struggling?
www.procompress.co.uk

#346 old fiddle

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:20 PM

I take it you've had dealings with a junior/youth player who a pro club have taken a fancy too - I have, they tell them not to play with their amateur club so they don't get injured.

 

Have you had dealings with players playing all year round, I have and trust me they become lethargic and start missing games because they have had to much rugby.

 

Pub teams where always going to the wall in winter, I can not recall the top well establish NCL sides struggling like they are now.

I,ve had many many dealings with junior players involved with pro clubs from both sides and i fully understand the problems involved. i,m not saying it will be easy. educate them to whether playing 20 mins out of position or not at all most weeks is a really enjoyable experience, especially when  some players are progressing to the SL ranks professional ranks via the championship sides and to Championship via  NCL. You just seem to keep highlighting problems without offering any solution/opinion how to fix it.

 

Maybe some clubs will need to accept that players won,t return, incidentally i also am not aware of any NCL clubs in trouble



#347 Marauder

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:51 PM

I,ve had many many dealings with junior players involved with pro clubs from both sides and i fully understand the problems involved. i,m not saying it will be easy. educate them to whether playing 20 mins out of position or not at all most weeks is a really enjoyable experience, especially when  some players are progressing to the SL ranks professional ranks via the championship sides and to Championship via  NCL. You just seem to keep highlighting problems without offering any solution/opinion how to fix it.

 

Maybe some clubs will need to accept that players won,t return, incidentally i also am not aware of any NCL clubs in trouble

I know, "Lets make rugby league a nine a side sport" or we can ban anyone under the age of 19 going within 20 miles of the coast.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#348 Marauder

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:55 PM

Which top NCL sides are struggling?

Take a look at the blow out scores, people reporting that some clubs don't have a settled side one week to the next, 2nd team fixtures being postponed and played mid-week because the 1st team have taken players, even youth fixtures are have been postponed for the same reasons, I believe last season one side had over 100 points put on them because they sent basically a youth team.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#349 old papa

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:35 PM

Everyone is aware of the RL vested interest this is never going to change, so why plough on with your own regardless. move under 18,s to winter, allow free movement of juniors with pro clubs. This will automatically increase playing pool. If what everyone says is correct, all under 18, will be chomping at the bit, so problem 1 solved

 

Under 18,s can also double up with summer if they want to this should mean less reserve fixtures cancelled

 

Barla play in winter and NCL play in summer and players decide which league they want to play in,

 

Players are not interested in the politics, they have to want to play or not, unfortunatley the culture has changed dramaticaly from back in the day. a product has to be attractive and enjoyable

 

It may mean teams will go by the wayside or merge, but lets not kid ouselves that this never happened in winter

 

Think field of dreams, if they don,t come, then to be honest they didn,t really want to

Great post all makes sense and your views are exactly the same as mine.



#350 Historical value

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:03 PM

I'll tell you how it is. People with degrees controlling the masses, for there own ends, RFL that is. On the gravy train. How much of there hard earned have any of these RFL, ncl put in. Well I don't know, but I've got a idea, probably nowt.
Get real, get back to winter. A good friend of mine, who is a massive fan of summer, said its so we can compete with the Aussies well they take all our juniors, and manipulate em anyway. Scholarships ect, and give nowt. Years ago, if you were any good, you would get a signing on fee, what now a dream, of being on sky,

#351 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:19 AM

I’ve seen this document doing the rounds for the past day or so and from this sort of thinking from the chair of an amateur league, it reinforces the post from Historical Value that this long running thread was opened with;

(message starts)

Hi secretaries

I have also sent this to all the under 16s delegats on my list (I hope).

Please can you help out in any way.


It has been brought to my attention that at least 144 under 16s players are expected to turn up for trials at Ince Rose Bridge on Wednesday 17 July.


May I suggest, that in the best interests of the players, that these trials are delayed until the players know where their future lies within the professional body of our game.

It is likely that those players who will be signed professionally will not then be eligible to play for Lancashire Under 17s and it seems to me that it could be a waste of time and effort for all coaches and players, if at the end of the month some of the players find out that they will not be eligible to trialbecause of their professinal commitments.


Can I please appeal to your better nature and ask you to delay the date of these trials by at least three weeks, if not four or five.

Thanking you for your anticipated support.


Hilary Steel M.B.E.
Chair/Secretary
North West Youth

(message ends)

 

It’s very hard for me to comprehend the thinking behind this message, especially the paragraph highlight by bold. All well and good, if unlikely as it may be, the 144 players concerned are going to secure professional contracts well that’s great and the respective clubs that have nurtured them for the past eight years or so, should take a bow for a job well done. Also credit their coaches for coaching enough players to a level to displace, “144 past their sell by date overseas players” from the English professional game.

 

However sadly it appears that the chair of NWC Youth seems not to be content at just sacrificing youth rugby at club level to the RFL academies, this looks like a definite drive to scupper a well respected higher level competition. What happened the players having a choice?

 

The message I get from this is that the amateur game ends at youth level so the clubs may as well scrap all their open age teams or just let them wither.

 


Edited by Nev V Dawn, 13 July 2013 - 10:25 AM.


#352 LordCharles

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

only if they are players that are not on full contracts and not playing in the championship or super league ie a player that as gone to the pro club to try and get a contract but as not yet signed any pro forms ie Amateur form only  ( Like the good old days when players were call another or anewman.) I Believe they call it T & C nowadays. You can not stop a lad from trying to get a pro contract and if the chance comes his way to go to one of these clubs he should be encouraged Is this  not what every player whats to do when he is coming up through the junior ranks.  but he should also be encouraged to return to his junior club when he is not playing.  I Do not agree with full pro's just looking to use the NCL Or any other league to get their players back to fitness. I believe that every player must sign some form of registration at whatever level they play for insurance purposes so yes that is the form of dual registration I agree too. Amateur players trying to make a career out of professional Rugby League. should not be banned from playing at their Commutiny club just because they have are training and playing the odd game for a pro club. Didnt we once slate the RFU for doing exactly the same a few years ago. just to recap I do not agree with fully contracted players playing in a Amateur League Competition. 

 

 

I can tell you for free my old chum that the AGREED Dual Registration system for 2014 will be for Part-Time Pro Players playing at Championship Level to play in NCL Competitions.

 

I'm sure Del Capo can substantiate this!

 

This has already been discussed and agreed at Regulatory group level in February 2013 and Community Board level in April 2013.


Edited by LordCharles, 13 July 2013 - 02:17 PM.


#353 Marauder

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:38 PM

I can tell you for free my old chum that the AGREED Dual Registration system for 2014 will be for Part-Time Pro Players playing at Championship Level to play in NCL Competitions.

 

I'm sure Del Capo can substantiate this!

 

This has already been discussed and agreed at Regulatory group level in February 2013 and Community Board level in April 2013.

Oh dear Del

 

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln ...

 

 

Now we know which camp Old Fiddle is in after a handful of posts does it indicate to me; someone has opened a second account or the RFL Benedict Arnolds are getting worried because the penny is starting to drop very fast, if it's the latter you'd best get the MOU pushed through very quickly.


Edited by Marauder, 13 July 2013 - 03:44 PM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#354 old fiddle

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 06:54 PM

[quote name="Marauder" post="2745436" timestamp="1373729913"]Oh dear Del
 
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln ...
 
 
Now we know which camp Old Fiddle is in after a handful of posts does it indicate to me; someone has opened a second account or the RFL Benedict Arnolds are getting worried because the penny is starting to drop very fast, if it's the latter you'd best get the MOU pushed through very quickly.

Ugh ugh. You got me wrong. I, m just playing devils advocate. Remember the Peoples front of judea in life of brian? Well guess what? It's happening just like pubs and town centres are closing. If that letter from NW Counties is genuine then you are playign straight into the hands of the RFL

Why not go ahead with the trials and hope that palyers choose to play representative rather than sign pro, if they don't then tough, pick someone else. Or, maybe do something radical like change the rules and pick them anyway dependant on size and length of the contract.

Fight back before there is nothing left to fight for.

For the record I am totally against any form of dual reg. The only exception is I would allow players to return to their amateur club when not selected for their pro club on a weekend.

#355 old fiddle

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:03 AM

Great post all makes sense and your views are exactly the same as mine.

thanks for that beginning to think new contributors weren,t welcome.

 

Further still something needs to be done about the huge amount of good players not involved in a game every weekend, because of the uneccessary large squads the championship and under 19,s pro clubs have. Thats whats having the worst effect on rugby. All organisations have a duty to find a way to allow these players to play if thats what they want to do. Change the rules, adapt, evolve. Just don,t except the inevitable. Or to go back to my original post, is there too many vested interests in all organisations



#356 Marauder

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:10 PM

[quote name="Marauder" post="2745436" timestamp="1373729913"]Oh dear Del
 
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln ...
 
 
Now we know which camp Old Fiddle is in after a handful of posts does it indicate to me; someone has opened a second account or the RFL Benedict Arnolds are getting worried because the penny is starting to drop very fast, if it's the latter you'd best get the MOU pushed through very quickly.

Ugh ugh. You got me wrong. I, m just playing devils advocate. Remember the Peoples front of judea in life of brian? Well guess what? It's happening just like pubs and town centres are closing. If that letter from NW Counties is genuine then you are playign straight into the hands of the RFL

Why not go ahead with the trials and hope that palyers choose to play representative rather than sign pro, if they don't then tough, pick someone else. Or, maybe do something radical like change the rules and pick them anyway dependant on size and length of the contract.

Fight back before there is nothing left to fight for.

For the record I am totally against any form of dual reg. The only exception is I would allow players to return to their amateur club when not selected for their pro club on a weekend.

That's exactly what has been reported what they have done in the past and it's always worked, it looks like the people in charge are ahead in their thinking and also have a system in place to compensate for lads signing.

 

 Did you see the scores from yesterday in the NCL,  (couple of blow outs)


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#357 Marauder

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:10 PM

[quote name="Marauder" post="2745436" timestamp="1373729913"]Oh dear Del
 
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln ...
 
 
Now we know which camp Old Fiddle is in after a handful of posts does it indicate to me; someone has opened a second account or the RFL Benedict Arnolds are getting worried because the penny is starting to drop very fast, if it's the latter you'd best get the MOU pushed through very quickly.

Ugh ugh. You got me wrong. I, m just playing devils advocate. Remember the Peoples front of judea in life of brian? Well guess what? It's happening just like pubs and town centres are closing. If that letter from NW Counties is genuine then you are playign straight into the hands of the RFL

Why not go ahead with the trials and hope that palyers choose to play representative rather than sign pro, if they don't then tough, pick someone else. Or, maybe do something radical like change the rules and pick them anyway dependant on size and length of the contract.

Fight back before there is nothing left to fight for.

For the record I am totally against any form of dual reg. The only exception is I would allow players to return to their amateur club when not selected for their pro club on a weekend.

That's exactly what has been reported what they have done in the past and it's always worked, it looks like the people in charge are ahead in their thinking and also have a system in place to compensate for lads signing.

 

 Did you see the scores from yesterday in the NCL,  (couple of blow outs)


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#358 old fiddle

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:54 PM

That's exactly what has been reported what they have done in the past and it's always worked, it looks like the people in charge are ahead in their thinking and also have a system in place to compensate for lads signing.
 
 Did you see the scores from yesterday in the NCL,  (couple of blow outs)

Yes, can, t fathom the hunslet one. Ince look they are struggling to compete at the moment. Don, t know whats going on but the have a good set up and will come allright again even if it has to be in div 1

If you go behind in that weather with a weakened team theres alaways a chance of it happening

#359 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:59 AM

[quote name="Marauder" post="2745436" timestamp="1373729913"]Oh dear Del
 
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln ...
 
 
Now we know which camp Old Fiddle is in after a handful of posts does it indicate to me; someone has opened a second account or the RFL Benedict Arnolds are getting worried because the penny is starting to drop very fast, if it's the latter you'd best get the MOU pushed through very quickly.

Ugh ugh. You got me wrong. I, m just playing devils advocate. Remember the Peoples front of judea in life of brian? Well guess what? It's happening just like pubs and town centres are closing. If that letter from NW Counties is genuine then you are playign straight into the hands of the RFL

Why not go ahead with the trials and hope that palyers choose to play representative rather than sign pro, if they don't then tough, pick someone else. Or, maybe do something radical like change the rules and pick them anyway dependant on size and length of the contract.

Fight back before there is nothing left to fight for.

For the record I am totally against any form of dual reg. The only exception is I would allow players to return to their amateur club when not selected for their pro club on a weekend.

 

I think that I'd tend to agree with Marauder on this one.

 

With all the smoke slowly clearing from the mirrors, it's becoming clear that it's just an old tune being played on a new fiddle,


Edited by Nev V Dawn, 15 July 2013 - 07:01 AM.


#360 Wilber

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:15 AM

Face facts, we will always get player drop off and there is no way of stopping it, the secret is to have a larger pool of players to start with, then the drop off isn't as noticeable, but the stupid Sport England funding restrictions prevents this.

Sport England funding starts at 14+, so how are you supposed to start developing players from the ages of 14+ when we need to be putting all our time and resources into getting 6 - 11 years old's playing the game.

Its quite evident to everyone except Sport England that the only way you can have a good pool of 14 year olds and upwards is to have a strong crop of youngsters playing the game between 6-13.

Why Sport England and the RFL seem to miss this obvious point is beyond me

 

Now here is a good point for you. the next community board meeting has the big wig of Sport England attending, the very person I would love to chew some fat with. Sue Taylor will attend for BARLA and knows nothing about youth and Junior so I hope Charlie Bray can steer our future.






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