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#441 sbull

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 07:13 AM

But haven't the next level up also grabbed the control of the decision making mechanism of the amateur game with the very INDEPENDENT Community Board  of puppets who will not allow a amateur league in direct competition to set up a structure in the traditional season (How strange that it allowed the opposite to happen when we where all happy playing with 17 men on a team sheet in sub-zero and wet conditions with one man and his dog watching)

Not up to speed on all the politics of the community board, but it seams that a lot of obstacles have been put in the way if teams want to go back to winter
is there anything stoping a new league being formed without the community board being involved?
the NCL started with just 10 teams so for instance if teams who no longer want to play in summer but want to play at the same standard, couldn't they just start a fresh league? What obstacles are difficulties would prevent this from happening?

I'm sure administrating it would be an issue, and it couldn't happen over night but if a structure was put in place, say a short playing season jan 2015 to say may and then start the traditional season 2015, then like people keep saying, if you don't like summer, go and find a winter team, then teams and players could actually do it.

#442 Spidey

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 07:51 AM

Not up to speed on all the politics of the community board, but it seams that a lot of obstacles have been put in the way if teams want to go back to winter
is there anything stoping a new league being formed without the community board being involved?
the NCL started with just 10 teams so for instance if teams who no longer want to play in summer but want to play at the same standard, couldn't they just start a fresh league? What obstacles are difficulties would prevent this from happening?

I'm sure administrating it would be an issue, and it couldn't happen over night but if a structure was put in place, say a short playing season jan 2015 to say may and then start the traditional season 2015, then like people keep saying, if you don't like summer, go and find a winter team, then teams and players could actually do it.

 

BARLA attempted to set up a Winter Conference but I don't think there was enough interest/uptake.   There's definately not enough time to set up an alternative for this Winter and get it right, however if they'd plan a competition for to start say 2014/15 I'm sure that's enough time to get a proper proposal in place and the structure/administration right for those clubs who feel Winter is best for them



#443 sbull

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:33 AM

BARLA attempted to set up a Winter Conference but I don't think there was enough interest/uptake.   There's definately not enough time to set up an alternative for this Winter and get it right, however if they'd plan a competition for to start say 2014/15 I'm sure that's enough time to get a proper proposal in place and the structure/administration right for those clubs who feel Winter is best for them


It was all a bit rushed last time and and no wanted to jump overboard, personally I think it should be left until 2015 so clubs could finish the third season of summer and if no vote takes place because of all the obstacles that will be put in the way, at least by then a clear structure would be in place giving clubs the choice.

You wouldn't want to make the same mistake that were made when the switch to summer took place by rushing it,

I though barla were unable to stare a new league due to rules on the community board?

But can anybody tel me is there anything wrong with a new winter bases NCL being formed by the clubs who don't want to compete in summer?

#444 Marauder

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:36 AM

BARLA attempted to set up a Winter Conference but I don't think there was enough interest/uptake.   There's definately not enough time to set up an alternative for this Winter and get it right, however if they'd plan a competition for to start say 2014/15 I'm sure that's enough time to get a proper proposal in place and the structure/administration right for those clubs who feel Winter is best for them

I believe there was enough interest but politics got in the way at the time and since then there has been approximately 18 months of summer rugby that has seen dwindling numbers on match days but greater numbers being reported at training.

 

The way back is simple and it would also be simple to integrate any NCL clubs with any ambitious BARLA winter clubs.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#445 casyorkie

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:22 AM

I believe there was enough interest but politics got in the way at the time and since then there has been approximately 18 months of summer rugby that has seen dwindling numbers on match days but greater numbers being reported at training.

 

The way back is simple and it would also be simple to integrate any NCL clubs with any ambitious BARLA winter clubs.

If there was enough intrest they would have formed the league.you have your views which are find but you seem to find it very hard to accept that it seems most of the NCL are happy with the summer format, Barla have a perfectly good winter league in the Pennine .



#446 Marauder

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:32 AM

If there was enough intrest they would have formed the league.you have your views which are find but you seem to find it very hard to accept that it seems most of the NCL are happy with the summer format, Barla have a perfectly good winter league in the Pennine .

You obviously don't know all the politics, even the name of a new league is not as simple as it may seem simply because the Community board can veto it and would Lancashire teams want to play in a league called the CMS Yorkshire league which I believe could be a name that didn't have to go in front of the Community Board.

 

I'd personally would use my imagination and called the new league The National Conference Men's League but I'm sure the Community Board/RFL wouldn't allow it.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#447 sbull

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 02:10 PM

You obviously don't know all the politics, even the name of a new league is not as simple as it may seem simply because the Community board can veto it and would Lancashire teams want to play in a league called the CMS Yorkshire league which I believe could be a name that didn't have to go in front of the Community Board.
 
I'd personally would use my imagination and called the new league The National Conference Men's League but I'm sure the Community Board/RFL wouldn't allow it.


Could the community board stop a bunch of teams starting there own leage if there was enough interest?

#448 Marauder

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 03:33 PM

Could the community board stop a bunch of teams starting there own leage if there was enough interest?

Yes, the community board control what happens in the amateur game and if you check on who make up the community board you will see most have been selected by the RFL including the two so called independent members, in other words whoever sits down to represent BARLA would feel more comfortable with a pack of laughing Hyenas.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#449 LordCharles

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 03:56 PM

Yes, the community board control what happens in the amateur game and if you check on who make up the community board you will see most have been selected by the RFL including the two so called independent members, in other words whoever sits down to represent BARLA would feel more comfortable with a pack of laughing Hyenas.

 

Marauder................the Community Board can only dictate to any of its members, if your not a member..........then it can't say, impose or dictate anything!



#450 Cutsyke Raiders

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:07 PM

The NCL won't return to a traditional season because as you so rightly know it has now been grabbed as the next level to support the ailing professional game. The teams however may do.

 

Nev, If you were in charge at BARLA, would you set up another BARLA National league in the winter, with the discontent from the glorious summer teams?



#451 TaxiEgg

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:26 PM

Back to the Barla being only winter again , which is not the case .

If and its a big if given recent inactivity from the Barla policy makers , Barla offered a meaningful structured competition backed with several worthwile incentives playing in a season that suited clubs taking out all the conflicts would clubs not consider switching back ?

#452 once a ref always a ref

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:36 PM

 Careful, incentives mean bribes on here. :D


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#453 LordCharles

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:40 PM

 Careful, incentives mean bribes on here. :D

 

 

Yes........and "Operational Rules" means "Bull****"



#454 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 06:14 PM

Nev, If you were in charge at BARLA, would you set up another BARLA National league in the winter, with the discontent from the glorious summer teams?

 

Straight answer Raider - yes. This provided that there is clear indication for a need from the clubs and that there was enough solid support to operate a meaningful structure as evolved from the BARLA National Conference League all those years ago. And  if need be, let such a league be bank-rolled by BARLA and benefits clearly shown. However not wishing to stray off thread and meeting the wrath of the mighty whistler (once a ????) this would only be a quick fix for just a few.

 

If I remember correctly Raider, was your club one of around ten clubs that showed concern over the move to summer, but now you seem to be enjoying an amount of long awaited success. So maybe the switch was good for you will Ince Rose Bridge be in the same mind.

 

Just a little aside, I know it's early doors but the BARLA Cumbria Men's ARL seems to be heading in the right direction and that's far from being a winter/traditional season, so it would seem that BARLA are turning some sort of corner and surely they deserve some credit for that. And I believe although there is a lack of forward thinking within BARLA at this moment in time, if the association shows that it is willing to look at all aspects, then more people will show interest and put some weight and invention behind BARLA.

 

However the problems behind the demise of open age ARL are more deep rooted than just the summer/winter issue and in my opinion attention should be paid - literally - to the kids coming into or considering coming into the game. If a sustained focus was shown in this area and beyond - and not just on the persuit of talent - but to allow everyone to have the opportunity to play the game, at a level that suits their own skills, then I believe that we are on the right track.

 

The talent within the game will be unearthed and the lucky few will go on, as have thousands of others before them, to play at the highest level. I believe in the old adage that if they're good enough then they'll get found and if they have the desire and ambition, they'll make sure that they get found.  

 

As so often documented, sport in general has seen a downturn in recent years that's clear. Why even today there are reports that the legacy left by the Olympics is in question with less participants around than twelve months previous and the onus seems to be on the billions of pounds generated to the economy by the games. So a clear focus needs affording in making the game attractive for players at all levels and doing away with the political battlefield, which in my mind is being fought to support the professional game sadly with a high cost being paid by the amateur sport.


Edited by Nev V Dawn, 25 July 2013 - 07:44 PM.


#455 TaxiEgg

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 06:34 PM

Excellent post

#456 Sid Hall

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:39 AM

Well after yesterdays results, I would suspect several teams have absent players on holiday. It's not a true reflection on the league when you've got half strength teams. Very rarely did you have that situation in the winter.



#457 LordCharles

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:08 AM

Well after yesterdays results, I would suspect several teams have absent players on holiday. It's not a true reflection on the league when you've got half strength teams. Very rarely did you have that situation in the winter.

 

Sid I think many people have the same opinion and as you point out its not a true reflection of the sport at that level, which is frustrating given the calibre of clubs, coaches and players that are within it.



#458 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:42 AM

BARLA attempted to set up a Winter Conference but I don't think there was enough interest/uptake.   There's definately not enough time to set up an alternative for this Winter and get it right, however if they'd plan a competition for to start say 2014/15 I'm sure that's enough time to get a proper proposal in place and the structure/administration right for those clubs who feel Winter is best for them

 

That's right Spidey, a couple of years ago there was an attempt to introduce a top level alternative to those ten or so conference teams who weren't happy with the summer switch, but I agree with you this plan was too rushed and really the only teams that looked to it were the top end of Pennine ARL and CMS Yorkshire ARL.  

 

Also with the restrictive RFL Community Board policies preventing any new leagues being set up - and that's at any age group - a traditional alternative would have to come from an existing league and I think that even then, there would be massive opposition and threats from that body directed towards any proposed conception. But as Lord Charles has so rightly indicated, if you're not part of the RFL Community Board, the threats and protestation would count for nothing.

 

Again I think that you're spot on with the timing Spidey, if planning/consultation with clubs was to begin now for a September 2014, then I believe that a solid, safe, suitable structure would be put in place for that starting time. Add to this any possible sponsorship/funding and then clubs would have time to discuss the facts and figures to make their own minds up as to whether it would be in their benefit, before making their own decision on their future. If BARLA have any desire to impact once again, then planning should be underway at this moment.

 

Maybe administrators should look at the success of the Cumbria model that is underway and emulate what is happening there. Yes it's not being played as a traditional competition but it is being played when the players and clubs want it to be played as they were all part of the consultation for the March - September transition that took place in West Cumbria a couple of years ago. Unlike just bowing to the recommendations from their management as happened with the NCL vote, they actually had a say in their future and now the game in that particular part of the world, is taking big steps forward.

 

What's to stop similar leagues/divisions being introduced in the NWC and Yorkshire and with the similar amount of backing from BARLA which has led to the success in Cumbria. Maybe it could be an idea to start off with a more regionalised competition for the moment, through the correct consultation with clubs this could be discovered. Until that takes place then everyone's playing a guessing game, one which was definitely guessed wrongly by the RFL with summer rugby. The evidence is in the results.

 

And now the RFL are aiming the dual registration gun at their foot which in my mind would not go down a treat with the strong amateur ethos a large percentage of the game enjoys at present. This is just one of many future concepts to come from the RFL as they continue to slowly professionalise the top end of the amateur game for their own benefit, which I don't suppose makes many friends for the RFL as they blatently abuse and squeeze the life out of the amateur game.

 

But as I've said before on this thread, the summer/winter issue is only part of why we see the open age in such disarray and the problems are deep rooted. The games policy makers should take a look at what is happening at the early part of a player's time in our game and have a re-think on realisation of the damaged caused by their selfish persuit of talent.

 

For a large percentage of amateur under 15/16 games to be disrupted in order to pacify the professional games academies/scholarships is simply unacceptable. The problem has always been there at the end of the amateur season when there was a  brief "crossover period" of around a month. So just what were the RFL thinking when they actually fixtured the amateur season around the professional academies, as the result has been catastrophic. 

 

I believe that it's only a matter of time before the amateur game certainly at these age groups 15's through to 18's will return to a more traditional season than it enjoys now. The RFL spin doctors will more than likely be working overtime to produce the exit strategy of all exit strategies in order to back track and not admit that they were wrong in dragging the game to summer just to prop up the ailing professional game.  

 

I strongly believe that once the aspects of youth/junior are in more settled times, then open age amateur rugby league will benefit greatly with the more settled environment.


Edited by Nev V Dawn, 29 July 2013 - 05:51 AM.


#459 Marauder

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 05:55 PM

I was talking to a Bank Quay player at the BARLA over 35's tri-county games today at Featherstone, It seems things aren't all that clever in the NWC Men's league when it comes to numbers on teams sheets come match days.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#460 LONGMAN

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:54 PM

From visiting grounds and hosting games since the move to Summer it is clear to anyone to see the crowds have dropped significantly. Each week the team is different, we played Saturday and had 6 missing, playing tonight with 8 missing not same lads different from weekend mainly.

There was nothing better than the banter in the clubhouse after the game, travelling home on the bus from games following a good day out. How times have changed, Clubs are empty everywhere you go, within an hour of a game only a handfull left in club. This has all gone, we have been at clubs before in the winter season where you would not leave tio come home to 7/8 pm and vice versa when clubs visited you the same. Nowadays, each week there are a number who do not even come in the club as other things to be doing.

As for player participation increasing as stated earlier - WRONG

The standard of officials we are getting is shockling. Each week is a lottery as to the number of cards teams will get. Do the management care anymore or is this area a massive money making operation.

Management meeting Monday - if the question was asked of hoe many teams would stop season now and move back to a winter NCL i think they would be shocked at the response.

A lot of good admin people at clubs, players & coaches have left and i fear more will do the same then the once great competition we had will be no more than a pub league

At Milford on Saturday which had a reasonable size crowd, it was noticeable that only a handful of players and hardly any officials or supporters from Oulton came back to the club after the game.

They didn't even stay for the after match speeches or MOM presentations. If this is the norm from Oulton its not surprising your club is empty. IMO 






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