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#161 Death to the Rah Rah's

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:51 AM

BARLA did give the BARLA Cumbria Mens ARL a financial leg up to get the competition off the ground, but it has to be said that the bulk of the running about was done by the two RFL development Officers in Cumbria on behalf of the competition organisers. I have been told that it wouldn't have got off the ground if it wasn't for the cooperation of the RFL and BARLA, so that just shows the two parties can work together when the right people are alongside them without hidden agendas from either side!

I don't know how long the BARLA funding is in place for, but I would hope it would be for at least three seasons to give them time to grow the competition and get other sponsors on board. Rome wasn't built in a day, but the competition so far has been brilliant and very competitive. The £5,000 sponsorship from BARLA isn't a huge investment for this level of competition, but it meant the difference between the competition starting and helping to revitalise the game in Cumbria or being yet another good idea that was discarded. I would certainly see it as a better long term investment that taking a tour to somewhere like Germany or to play in a rugby union competition in Dubai.

Cumbria has been through some bad times and the game generally gets ignored in this part of the country, but the game is trying very hard to reinvent itself and so far the signs are good. There will always be teams that want the prestige of playing in the NCL, but I don't think people realise how strong the Cumbria Men's competition is, there are some very good teams in it and they would give the majority of NCL teams a good game in exactly the same way as the top teams in the Pennine League.

Maybe its time to review the National Cup and create a two tier competition for the district league clubs with a regionalised cup competition for the top division and the last two in each region going into an open draw for the last couple of rounds? The same format could be used for the teams in the lower divisions to give them something to play for.

Cumbria launched a new competition this season to run alongside the BARLA Cumbria Cup, which is the Cumbria Shield for the CARL and Barrow & District clubs. The draw is regionalised to the semi-final, and the draw is rigged so only one side travels from each side of the county to minimise travel costs ie: semi 1: Barrow v West Cumbria / Semi 2: West Cumbria v Barrow.

Obviously you could still end up with an all-barrow or all-west cumbrian final, but it does give clubs the chance to play against new opposition without the worry of incurring big travel costs if drawn away in every round. All the clubs have entered as well (first time ever probably)

One other thing that you probably aren't aware of in regard to the Men's Comp is that for the West Cumbrian clubs, the league management blocked booked the coaches for the season for the trips to Barrow in order to get the best price possible. The local clubs pay a lump sum into the league in 2 or 3 advance payments and the league pay the bus bills centrally. Gilly will know the costs, but I don't think it was very much.

The purpose of this was to stop the scenario experienced in the NWC league when clubs opted not to travel to Barrow rather than pay £350-450 hire for a bus, so if a side didn't travel in the Cumbria Men's there is no financial saving as they had already paid in advance for the coach.

Edited by Death to the Rah Rah's, 02 July 2013 - 07:58 AM.


#162 Marauder

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:52 AM

Will the pennine clubs want to travel to hull Lancashire and cumbria? Isnt that why they play in the pennine league because the games are local? And forgive me if im wrong but outside the NCL in hull Lancashire and cumbria I don't think their are any sides who could compete on a weekly basis with the likes of sharlston drighlington queens and hunslet old boys so setting up a winter conference would be pointless if its just going to be dominated by pennine league sides,

I think you will find that the top 4 or 5 clubs in the Pennine where all ex-Yorkshire league and they moved to the Pennine for the better organised season, on the point of competing with the top Pennine clubs wouldn't it be the same as the clubs who left the regionals to join the NCL over the years, if my memory serves me right I believe only Hunslet Warriors & East Hull topped the Yorkshire league the years they left, so that indicates to me that clubs would pick up a few players who wanted to play at a higher standard and the league would also offer somewhere for the stay-away NCL guys to play in the winter.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#163 Marauder

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:54 AM

all I know is,that's its being discussed again.

shouldn't it be discussed with the district leagues as well?


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#164 Ranger12

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:59 PM

shouldn't it be discussed with the district leagues as well?

i would imagine it will be ,if there is enough support for it.

#165 Marauder

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:23 AM

i would imagine it will be ,if there is enough support for it.

I'm sure the support will be there for this type of competition but do we have to be prepared to initially accept well run clubs who are ambitious and not playing in the top divisions of the regional leagues?


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#166 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:07 AM

BARLA did give the BARLA Cumbria Mens ARL a financial leg up to get the competition off the ground, but it has to be said that the bulk of the running about was done by the two RFL development Officers in Cumbria on behalf of the competition organisers. I have been told that it wouldn't have got off the ground if it wasn't for the cooperation of the RFL and BARLA, so that just shows the two parties can work together when the right people are alongside them without hidden agendas from either side!

I don't know how long the BARLA funding is in place for, but I would hope it would be for at least three seasons to give them time to grow the competition and get other sponsors on board. Rome wasn't built in a day, but the competition so far has been brilliant and very competitive. The £5,000 sponsorship from BARLA isn't a huge investment for this level of competition, but it meant the difference between the competition starting and helping to revitalise the game in Cumbria or being yet another good idea that was discarded. I would certainly see it as a better long term investment that taking a tour to somewhere like Germany or to play in a rugby union competition in Dubai.

Cumbria has been through some bad times and the game generally gets ignored in this part of the country, but the game is trying very hard to reinvent itself and so far the signs are good. There will always be teams that want the prestige of playing in the NCL, but I don't think people realise how strong the Cumbria Men's competition is, there are some very good teams in it and they would give the majority of NCL teams a good game in exactly the same way as the top teams in the Pennine League.

Maybe its time to review the National Cup and create a two tier competition for the district league clubs with a regionalised cup competition for the top division and the last two in each region going into an open draw for the last couple of rounds? The same format could be used for the teams in the lower divisions to give them something to play for.

Cumbria launched a new competition this season to run alongside the BARLA Cumbria Cup, which is the Cumbria Shield for the CARL and Barrow & District clubs. The draw is regionalised to the semi-final, and the draw is rigged so only one side travels from each side of the county to minimise travel costs ie: semi 1: Barrow v West Cumbria / Semi 2: West Cumbria v Barrow.

Obviously you could still end up with an all-barrow or all-west cumbrian final, but it does give clubs the chance to play against new opposition without the worry of incurring big travel costs if drawn away in every round. All the clubs have entered as well (first time ever probably)

One other thing that you probably aren't aware of in regard to the Men's Comp is that for the West Cumbrian clubs, the league management blocked booked the coaches for the season for the trips to Barrow in order to get the best price possible. The local clubs pay a lump sum into the league in 2 or 3 advance payments and the league pay the bus bills centrally. Gilly will know the costs, but I don't think it was very much.

The purpose of this was to stop the scenario experienced in the NWC league when clubs opted not to travel to Barrow rather than pay £350-450 hire for a bus, so if a side didn't travel in the Cumbria Men's there is no financial saving as they had already paid in advance for the coach.

 

Sadly despite what you are led to believe DTTRR, the two RFL officers were working to an agenda which was to; secure this new initiative - which in truth did evolve through various officials from West Cumbria and Barrow - talking to BARLA over a period. And not only to claim ownership of a BARLA sponsored/funded league but also to get the league signed securely to the MOU and the proposed RFL operational rules. The Cumbrians had to stand their ground to have the word "amateur" included in the title. So on this evidence it's not exactly the nicety of cooperation between the RFL and other parties as people are led to believe. But the fact of the matter is that the competition is off the ground and running. 

 

Encouragingly as well, I am led to believe that the sponsorship/funding is in place for the first year and will be reviewed annually, which on evidence of the success of the competition and the recent interest shown from other teams, should be a virtual formality when it comes to renewal. As you so rightly say this initiative has certainly revitalised the game in Cumbria and having been able to take in a couple of games myself, the competitiveness is their for all to see.

 

Again as you say the league management blocked-booked the transport at a highly competitive price, to avoid any non fulfilments owing to travel costs. They have also introduced some simple initiatives which will raise revenue for the clubs, which will help secure transport as the league evolves and gathers strength. And it was the canny Cumbrian/Barrow management that sourced the best deals for the transport after exploring many avenues.

 

The revamped BARLA County Cup competition certainly looks to be a sure fire winner and the introduction of the new Shield competition has seen virtually 100% participation from both ends of the county. As you suggest lessons could be learned and implemented to the BARLA National Cup. One thing is for sure, the impressive new competitions in Cumbria, both league and cup, has really reinforced the collective strength within the County. 


Edited by Nev V Dawn, 03 July 2013 - 11:10 AM.


#167 del capo

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:42 AM

The Community Board minutes can all be found on Google. They may be seen as irrelevant to some on here but at least they can occasionally be of interest to others who may have a minute or two to spare.

 

Have a look at how far  committed / fenced in / agreed to ( call it what you will ) Barla have become on Operational Rules and in respect of any proposed new playing structures.

 

On the former, July 2012 at 8.1.1 ,     October 2012 at 4.2        January 2013 at  4.2  and April 2013  at 3.5....

 

On the latter , again October 2012 at 4.3 and January 2013 also at 4.3



#168 Marauder

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:06 PM

I did notice that out of all the people at the July meeting 2012 It appears that only one out of the twenty two was representing BARLA, while the RFL had what looks like thirteen on their direct payroll and a further eight who have been appointed into a position by the RFL - :rap: Is there a reason you said the minutes can be found on Google instead of the RFL website ?

The Community Board minutes can all be found on Google. They may be seen as irrelevant to some on here but at least they can occasionally be of interest to others who may have a minute or two to spare.

 

Have a look at how far  committed / fenced in / agreed to ( call it what you will ) Barla have become on Operational Rules and in respect of any proposed new playing structures.

 

On the former, July 2012 at 8.1.1 ,     October 2012 at 4.2        January 2013 at  4.2  and April 2013  at 3.5....

 

On the latter , again October 2012 at 4.3 and January 2013 also at 4.3

 

 

Present:

Maurice Watkins

Chair

Nigel Wood

RFL Chief Executive Officer

Stuart Prior

BARLA

Warrant Officer Damian Clayton MBE

Armed Forces Rugby League

Peter Moran

Independent Member

John Piercy

Student Rugby League

Charlie Bray

Tier 4 Youth & Junior Leagues

Ian Szwandt

English Schools Rugby League

Martin Coyd

Tier 4 Adult Leagues

Fred Baker

Independent Member

Trevor Hunt

Tier 3 Leagues

In Attendance:

David Gent

Director of Participation & Strategic Partnerships

Chris Rostron

Head of Partnerships

Andy Harland

Community Competitions Manager (in part)

Kelly Barrett

Community Games Services Manager

Robert Hicks

Legal & Compliance Officer (in part)

Matt Lowery

RFL Marketing Consultant (in part)

James Mercer

RFL Commercial Director (in part)

Sue Allan

RFL Finance Director (in part)

Blake Solly

RFL Standards and Licensing Director (in part)

BJ Mather

Head of Performance (in part)

Emma Brown

Community Games Services PA

 

ALL THESE PEOPLE IN JOBS FOR THE BOYS & THE FUNDING FOR THE FRONT LINE TROOPS (Development) WAS REDUCED TO SUCH AN EXTENT THAT THE MUCH PRAISED NATIONAL GAME IS SHRINKING FASTER THAN A HELIUM FILLED BALLOON.


Edited by Marauder, 03 July 2013 - 12:19 PM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#169 tim2

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:11 PM

The Youth and Junior rep was elected by the leagues. The Midlands League certainly voted in that respect. Sorry that I have to bust at least one of the "RFL appointee" myths.
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#170 Marauder

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:29 PM

The Youth and Junior rep was elected by the leagues. The Midlands League certainly voted in that respect. Sorry that I have to bust at least one of the "RFL appointee" myths.

Who Charlie Bray, LOL

 

We all know the score there and time waits for no man Tim.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#171 LordCharles

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:37 PM

The Youth and Junior rep was elected by the leagues. The Midlands League certainly voted in that respect. Sorry that I have to bust at least one of the "RFL appointee" myths.

 

You should be a comedian Tim..............................I've just wet myself laughing!!!

 

And that's part of the real issue with the game............................the Charlie boys of this world representing us!!!


Edited by LordCharles, 03 July 2013 - 12:39 PM.


#172 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:43 PM

The Community Board minutes can all be found on Google. They may be seen as irrelevant to some on here but at least they can occasionally be of interest to others who may have a minute or two to spare.

 

Have a look at how far  committed / fenced in / agreed to ( call it what you will ) Barla have become on Operational Rules and in respect of any proposed new playing structures.

 

On the former, July 2012 at 8.1.1 ,     October 2012 at 4.2        January 2013 at  4.2  and April 2013  at 3.5....

 

On the latter , again October 2012 at 4.3 and January 2013 also at 4.3

 

What's all this about Del Boy, you yourself know that these minutes are so diluted that it makes Fosters Lager seem like a strong drink


Edited by Nev V Dawn, 03 July 2013 - 12:45 PM.


#173 LordCharles

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:43 PM

Good afternoon Del........................

 

Hope you are going to be actively inputting your thoughts on to a PC screen near you very soon in the old "Pro contracted players in the NCL" thread.

 

I would suggest it will make interesting reading to view your thoughts on that debate.

 

Anyway..................not to stray off topic, I'll catch up with your views on that thread once you post!


Edited by LordCharles, 03 July 2013 - 12:44 PM.


#174 Marauder

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:53 PM

I've just been wasting my precious time trawling through the community board minutes on the RFL website and I can't find anywhere that points to the new Cumbrian league agreeing to be a RFL controlled league via the operational rules.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#175 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:54 PM

The Youth and Junior rep was elected by the leagues. The Midlands League certainly voted in that respect. Sorry that I have to bust at least one of the "RFL appointee" myths.

 

I think that Marauder is pointing to the fact that; at the time that appointment was made, the RFL were funding a certain junior league - east of the Pennines and playing in a traditional season - with a significant amount of tax payer's money.

 

Since that league has joined the summer switch I believe that the funding has now ended.



#176 del capo

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:56 PM

One mans democracy is clearly not always anothers Marauder.

 

 Eleven  at that meeting had voting rights. seven had been put there directly by their constituent bodies . The rest are professional officers , only a few of whom are funded / part funded by public monies.

 

And if no-one wants to bother to read the stuff  ( and I can understand why ) it basically says that Barla have agreed to the Operational rules system subject to a couple of issues to be dealt with under Competition rules. It is also policy confirmed by Barla through it's delegates that no new leagues are allowed without Community Board approval. If there was a compelling argument for a national winter league for instance then the NCL would be asked to look at it first......

 

Yes Marauder it is occasionally worth having a look at the RFL website - I just google because I find it quicker



#177 Nev V Dawn

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:03 PM

 

It is also policy confirmed by Barla through it's delegates that no new leagues are allowed without Community Board approval. If there was a compelling argument for a national winter league for instance then the NCL would be asked to look at it first......

 

 

 

As Marauder simply asks Del, where does the new Cumbria League appear in the Community Board minutes.



#178 del capo

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:09 PM

I've just been wasting my precious time trawling through the community board minutes on the RFL website and I can't find anywhere that points to the new Cumbrian league agreeing to be a RFL controlled league via the operational rules.

 I can't evenfind a constitution  Marauder.

 

Maybe our friends from Cumbria or Barla , who are shelling out some money for it, can help ?

 

The operational rules are only to be in placeacross the game for next season 2014 , but my understanding is that the directly administered competitions ( is Cumbria - the playing league one of them?  )  are effectively playing to them now



#179 Marauder

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:10 PM

One mans democracy is clearly not always anothers Marauder.

 

 Eleven  at that meeting had voting rights. seven had been put there directly by their constituent bodies . The rest are professional officers , only a few of whom are funded / part funded by public monies.

 

And if no-one wants to bother to read the stuff  ( and I can understand why ) it basically says that Barla have agreed to the Operational rules system subject to a couple of issues to be dealt with under Competition rules. It is also policy confirmed by Barla through it's delegates that no new leagues are allowed without Community Board approval. If there was a compelling argument for a national winter league for instance then the NCL would be asked to look at it first......

 

Yes Marauder it is occasionally worth having a look at the RFL website - I just google because I find it quicker

So what your saying, BARLA couldn't start up a winter National League without the community boards say so, or in fact start winter junior leagues again without the community boards say so?


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#180 LordCharles

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:10 PM

So what your saying, BARLA couldn't start up a winter National League without the community boards say so, or in fact start winter junior leagues again without the community boards say so?

 

That is correct Marauder, as it goes against Community Board policy.






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