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Does anyone else want USA to do well in the World Cup?


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#41 ChrisGS

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:37 PM

It was a pipe dream in Serbia, the Ukraine, Russia, Lebanon, Chech republic, Poland, Italy,Ireland, Fiji, Samoa. Jamaica, Canada etc etc.

 

Don't be so dismissive of a large country whose preference in football involves a funny shaped ball, running and tackling. From little acorns great oaks grow etc etc. The USA qualified for the World Cup for Pete's sake. They have played internationals in the USA against Canada, Ireland, South Africa and Jamaica.

 

Give them a sporting chance, how many hundreds of years have we been trying to make an impact in Wales ? Nobody is suggesting the RL community pour money into the American game, just that the International Governing body step in to sort out the split in the USA domestic competiton for the greater good of our sport.

 

We are always compaining about a shortage of players. Do you have any idea the riches of talent lying idle in the USA after their college/high school careers are over. If the US league could grow and prosper just a little bit there would be an instant source of players. Hull have already formed a link to the Canadian game. Don't be so parochial and insular in your thinking.

 

It still IS a pipe dream in most those countries you name-dropped. Ukraine, Lebanon, Poland? You'd have to ask 100 people in the street before you found someone who knew what rugby league was, and that 100th person would end up being some general knowledge genius.

 

I don't even understand the shortage of players remark. Who says that there is a shortage of players? There's an abundance of players, there's more amazing athletes than a game of our size could possibly need. The game already has an instant source of players, it's known as the Pacific Islands. Does America have athletes that can't be found in Samoa, Tonga, Fiji? Athletes that can't be found in Manchester, London or Paris, even?

 

I've got nothing against growth in America, it can only be good for the game, I just don't see it happening. And what isn't good for the game is this weird belief that 1,000 participants in America is more valuable than 10,000 people playing the game in Pakistan or 3,000 in Argentina.

 

I think Ireland and the Cook Islands beating the USA will be better for the games development. if that makes me insular then so be it.



#42 ChrisGS

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:48 PM

 

I would think that RL would appeal to Americans far more than RU does. The trick is getting enough of them to realise it exists as a separate entity. Some good news - as far as I'm concerned - earlier this month that the US Pro RU league sounds like pie in the sky. NRL put your new riches to good use - get in first and help start a pro league up!

 

 

Rugby union in America has a million participants and millions more fans, and still there is no pro rugby comp as of yet because it's simply not been viable. What makes you think that rugby league, with 1% of the participation and fans, is in a position to start a pro comp? Even Vince McMahon would laugh at the idea. The NRL are right to ignore the charlatans in the States who talk about starting a pro rugby league comp.



#43 keighley

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:08 PM

It still IS a pipe dream in most those countries you name-dropped. Ukraine, Lebanon, Poland? You'd have to ask 100 people in the street before you found someone who knew what rugby league was, and that 100th person would end up being some general knowledge genius.

 

I don't even understand the shortage of players remark. Who says that there is a shortage of players? There's an abundance of players, there's more amazing athletes than a game of our size could possibly need. The game already has an instant source of players, it's known as the Pacific Islands. Does America have athletes that can't be found in Samoa, Tonga, Fiji? Athletes that can't be found in Manchester, London or Paris, even?

 

I've got nothing against growth in America, it can only be good for the game, I just don't see it happening. And what isn't good for the game is this weird belief that 1,000 participants in America is more valuable than 10,000 people playing the game in Pakistan or 3,000 in Argentina.

 

I think Ireland and the Cook Islands beating the USA will be better for the games development. if that makes me insular then so be it.

 

 

If we get 3,000 in Argentina or 15,000 in Pakistan, that would be great. If it were to happen, i fail to see why growth in the USA would be mutually exclusive. Surely the game would be best served with sucess in all those three countries.

 

I have nothing against the Cook islands, i bet it's a great place for a holiday, but i think the population is about 20,000, so how you come to the conclusion that sucess for them as against sucess for the USA is better for the game is beyond me.

 

As to the player shortage. there have been numerous threads on here about there not being enough players to sustain a bigger SL or to enable Touluse to compete. There have been countless cries of woe at the imminent loss of the Broncos from SL because, allegedly, of the loss of players from the London area.

 

There have been further threads about the difficulty amateur teams all over the country, even in the heartlands, are having in staffing their junior teams. This is being compounded by the loss of development officers nationwide.

 

Right now there seems to be a surfeit of young players which have been produced by the already depleted amateur and SL systems. Going forward, this spigot might be turned off and all the progress we have made will come to nothing.

 

The fact that the game exists in all these countries. you brush off as irelevant is what is important. The fact that they are playing in international  competitons from European and Pacific locales all the way to World Cup qualifiers and for some, into the World cup proper is what is important. Exposure and knowledge of the game to the general public in these countries will come over time aided and abetted by any success that they might have. The USA is no different. RU has proven that.

 

i would hazard a guess that there are areas of Britain where you could ask the man in the street about RL and they would be clueless.

 

As John Donne said "No man is an island" and neither is RL whether a top team or an emerging nation.



#44 Rascal Bongo Stork

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:20 PM

Rugby union in America has a million participants and millions more fans, and still there is no pro rugby comp as of yet because it's simply not been viable. What makes you think that rugby league, with 1% of the participation and fans, is in a position to start a pro comp? Even Vince McMahon would laugh at the idea. The NRL are right to ignore the charlatans in the States who talk about starting a pro rugby league comp.

 

yes RU is much much bigger in the US than RL but I think you'll find your figures are grossly exaggerated.You've more than doubled the participants and 'millions' or rah rah fans in the US. Really?

I'd say that an 'entry level' pro RL league stands as much chance of taking off as the big time pro RU league that's been spoken of. A quote from an American organiser " it is crucial that the first elite professional rugby union XV game in the United States must be of the same quality that is expected on the pitch in Toulouse, Stade de France or Twickenham: history must be made". Methinks it's a lot of hot air m'lud.

History teaches us that rugger normally wins out in these things and already has a gigantic headstart but let's not stop believing. The sport is, in my opinion, far more suited for American tastes than the turgid fare the other code has to offer.

 

edit - and the number of adult RU players is c.60,000. Again, far more than RL but let's not make them out to be such an overwhelming colossus that RL cant get a piece of the cake as well.


Edited by Rascal Bongo Stork, 25 June 2013 - 03:29 PM.


#45 GeordieSaint

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:39 PM

edit - and the number of adult RU players is c.60,000. Again, far more than RL but let's not make them out to be such an overwhelming colossus that RL cant get a piece of the cake as well.

 

I was going to mention his figures. It would mean the US had probably more participants than the rest of the World put together!


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#46 keighley

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:39 PM

I was going to mention his figures. It would mean the US had probably more participants than the rest of the World put together!

 

Yes but we underestimate them also. They are into the colleges, the high schools and have hundreds of club teams. The 7s scene is booming and at 15s they just attracted an attendance of 20,000.

 

I think they also have a scheme whereby they have introduced rugby into deprived ghetto areas and which has been a great success so, mock them as you want, they are moving onwards and growing exponentially. RL needs to solve it's differences and get on with expanding the scope of the game inthe US pronto.

 

League would kill for such success. we should definitelt trade on the word Rugby and jump on their coattails to push our game.



#47 deluded pom?

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:42 PM

Rugby to an American conjures up pictures of pi**ed up frat boys. We'd do better to drop the word rugby from the name of the game in the USA.


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#48 keighley

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:04 PM

Rugby to an American conjures up pictures of pi**ed up frat boys. We'd do better to drop the word rugby from the name of the game in the USA.

 

Not so much any more. The athleticism and fitness needed for the 7 competitons have been pushed into the mainstream consciousness by ESPN both in televising the games and doing cover pieces on the various players.

 

Not that RL ever had any pi**ed up players or teams eh.!!



#49 GeordieSaint

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:26 PM

Yes but we underestimate them also. They are into the colleges, the high schools and have hundreds of club teams. The 7s scene is booming and at 15s they just attracted an attendance of 20,000.

 

I think they also have a scheme whereby they have introduced rugby into deprived ghetto areas and which has been a great success so, mock them as you want, they are moving onwards and growing exponentially. RL needs to solve it's differences and get on with expanding the scope of the game inthe US pronto.

 

League would kill for such success. we should definitelt trade on the word Rugby and jump on their coattails to push our game.

 

Where am I mocking or underestimating in my post?


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#50 deluded pom?

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:55 PM

 

 

Not that RL ever had any pi**ed up players or teams eh.!!

The Yanks wouldn't know the difference. ;)


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#51 ParraEelsNRL

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:57 PM

7's lol.

 

Has as much hope of winning over the masses like it did 100 years ago when it was first played in the games.

 

People can say this and that, but if a person watches the 7's on TV and thinks, great I love this fast contact sport, what are they going to do when they search for Rugby and all that other XV man garbage pops up?

 

 



#52 keighley

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:25 AM

Where am I mocking or underestimating in my post?

I don't think you are mocking them. Where did I say that.? The discussion of the exaggerated numbers playing was on tap and you rightly corrected that downwards and my point was that, yes those numbers were false but by the same token, don't underestimate the progress RU is making in the USA. I am not arguing against your point merely expanding and elaborating on it.

#53 keighley

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:27 AM

7's lol.
 
Has as much hope of winning over the masses like it did 100 years ago when it was first played in the games.
 
People can say this and that, but if a person watches the 7's on TV and thinks, great I love this fast contact sport, what are they going to do when they search for Rugby and all that other XV man garbage pops up?

Exactly. A golden opportunity to push the league version of the game and ride in on the coattails of RU 7s and RU 1t5s.

#54 thirteenthman

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:59 AM

Rugby to an American conjures up pictures of pi**ed up frat boys. We'd do better to drop the word rugby from the name of the game in the USA.

 

We would've done a damn sight better if we'd dropped the word rugby from the name completely years ago. I get fed up of reading about how our games progress in a new country is being stunted in some way because of the obvious confusion over our name.

 

As for the US, the most important thing is to get a unified set up. It'll be interesting to see what sort of team is assembled for the World Cup - I assume the likes of Clint Newton and Junior Paulo will be in the team?



#55 GeordieSaint

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:09 AM

I don't think you are mocking them. Where did I say that.?

 

You said it in the quote below.

 

I think they also have a scheme whereby they have introduced rugby into deprived ghetto areas and which has been a great success so, mock them as you want, they are moving onwards and growing exponentially.

 

If you weren't actually referring to me, I'll wind my neck in.


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#56 brooza

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:55 AM

From what I understand, some USARL players are being picked for the squad, in which case, I hope they do well


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#57 Futtocks

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:49 AM

I don't think you are mocking them. Where did I say that.? The discussion of the exaggerated numbers playing was on tap and you rightly corrected that downwards and my point was that, yes those numbers were false but by the same token, don't underestimate the progress RU is making in the USA. I am not arguing against your point merely expanding and elaborating on it.

RU have been working on the North American market for far longer than RL. The Olympic inclusion could give RU Sevens critical mass, but RL might be able to piggyback any success, if they are crafty and (are you listening AMNRL & USARL?) united.

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#58 keighley

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:00 AM

You said it in the quote below.
 
 
If you weren't actually referring to me, I'll wind my neck in.

Well, I can't argue with that can I.My apologies. Perhaps "mock" was the wrong word. Underestimate as in underestimate their growth might have conveyed better what I meant. Peace

#59 Shadow

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:47 PM

 I get fed up of reading about how our games progress in a new country is being stunted in some way because of the obvious confusion over our name.

 

Yeah, happens all the time.  :rolleyes:


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