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Yesterday was a great day for French Rugby League, Toulouse must be in Super LEague 2015


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#41 Northern Sol

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:40 PM

Learn to read Sol. Or at least learn to comprehend what you can read. I never said Toulouse should be in SL because of a "rugby culture".

No, you backed up the guy that did say that.

 

You claimed that they might average 15,000. They might, they might not but the fact that "They are a city that's four times the size of Toulouse and has a rugby culture" isn't really a convincing argument. That could be said of Bristol but who thinks a Bristol SL side would achieve that?


Edited by Northern Sol, 23 June 2013 - 09:40 PM.


#42 deluded pom?

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:19 AM

No, you backed up the guy that did say that.
 
You claimed that they might average 15,000. They might, they might not but the fact that "They are a city that's four times the size of Toulouse and has a rugby culture" isn't really a convincing argument. That could be said of Bristol but who thinks a Bristol SL side would achieve that?

Cut and paste me the bit where I said Toulouse should be in SL. I simply threw a couple of comments in that may or may not back up the possibility that Toulouse might (that's might not will) pull in 15,000 after three years in SL.

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#43 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:13 AM

[quote name="The Daddy_merged" post="2730311" timestamp="1372017927"]

[quote name="Just to be clear" post="2730303" timestamp="1372017526"]

Just to be clear, that is the attendance reported on the PA data feed that most websites use. The figure reported by the club was 14,858.

If you look at the Hull KR web site it gives this higher figure in the match report even though the conspicuously rounded 12,000 appears in the stats panel underneath. It is not the first time this season the PA has provided bad data.[/quote

So it was 14,858 then thanks, lets round that up to 15,000 then.[/quote]

The 12,000 is clearly an estimate, the precise figure is bound to be the announced figure.

I'm not sure how they counted the attendance but seeing as though it holds 19,000 I think 15,000 was a bit generous. Both areas behind the posts were pretty sparse. That's a minor point though that doesn't detract from a great occasion and they're only doing what most SL clubs do.

#44 Cliff Spracklen

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:46 AM

It's all good and well saying put Toulouse in SL, but are they good enough? I mean, we beat them in the challenge cup..

What has that got to do with it? The performances of the current part-time team has absolutely nothing to do with building a full-time professional Super League team.

#45 Cliff Spracklen

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:49 AM

Where are all of Tolouses players going to come from for them to compete? They are literally going to have to sign 20 players if they want to play SL.

As would any new entrant to Super League. As my comment above. The state of the current team of part-time players has little to do with setting up a full-time professional Super League operation.

#46 Cliff Spracklen

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:53 AM

You pulling my leg??


Average over 15,000 , Catalans can't do that, so why would Toulouse ???

Much much much bigger and more affluent younger population than Perpignan.

#47 Cliff Spracklen

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:55 AM

So does Bristol.
 
It has a rugby culture but it is mostly a rugby union culture.

It has a culture of supporting successful events.

#48 Rascal Bongo Stork

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:09 AM

I think if a city of the same size in England had a RL club who wanted to join SL and also had a long tradition of the sport being played there then nobody on here would question it. Let 'em in!

As for the ground - I think it's important that they do develop their current one rather than share with the RU lot. I think I'm right in saying that the Dragons had a less than pleasant time of it sharing with the local Vichyballers. I doubt very much Toulouse RU will be overly enthusiastic about a new show in town, best to have your own base than have an unhappy groundshare



#49 Jarv

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:00 AM

I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by the crowd I saw on TV. However if we base it on "15,000" does anyone know how many came from KR - say 1,000? How many travelled from Perpignan - i.e. did the club put on free transport or anything because of the change of venue? Where they literally giving tickets away in Toulouse or anything? Kids free? Just to get an idea of what an achievemen it was/wasnt?

Having being to Toulouse I know they are big on the RU but is it an area that is also "anti RL" generally or quite open to it?



#50 Northern Sol

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:13 PM

It has a culture of supporting successful events.

Everywhere has a culture of supporting successful events. Conversely everywhere has a culture of not supporting unsuccessful events.



#51 Rascal Bongo Stork

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:50 PM

TO President quoted in League Express as saying they'd sold 7000 tickets in Toulouse. So anything above that is Dragons fans,HKR fans and freebies I presume



#52 The Daddy_merged

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:17 PM

7,000 is a fantastic figure and notice the key word being sold, ie not freebie.



#53 oiseau

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:00 PM

From the outset of the TO13 SL murmurings a few years back the target Carlos had set for attendances was between 6 - 8K fans for the initial couple of seasons for the home games with a gradual increase over a few seasons to a steady 10K home crowd, hence the desire for a 10K seater stadium - any predicted crowds over and above the 10K ceiling would be accommodated at Earnest Wallon thanks to an agreement between TO13 and Stade Toulousain

Regarding the Hull KR game last weekend I purposely did a tour of the car parks within half a mile of the ground (getting some funny looks !) and did a very approximate personal survey of french car registrations ( the department or county numbers can be found on the vast majority of french cars) and I found the majority coming from the Perpignan area with the next popular county being the Lezignan/Limoux/Carcassonne areas followed by Albi and the north  and then Villeneuve and all points west including Bordeaux. Assuming about 7000 were locals from the Toulouse catchment area which I feel is accurate including the important  St Gaudens area,   and allowing for about 750 HKR fans I estimate a travelling Catalans crowd of about 3500 with about 1500  etc  from the Carcassonne areas 1500 from Albi etc and about 1000 from the Villeneuve area

Ok, not a very clinical method of calculating maybe but I think it gives a pretty clear indicator as to the origin of the travelling fanbase - I reckon Carlos has done his homework and knows that even a semi-successful TO13 side will attract a steady 7/8K regular fans for the home games



#54 RSN

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:14 PM

As would any new entrant to Super League. As my comment above. The state of the current team of part-time players has little to do with setting up a full-time professional Super League operation.

No this is Toulouse it's completely different.

First of all Catalan have first dibs of all the French talent. So where is Toulouses French players going to come from seeing as Catalan is there.

They can't attract any real British talent as who would want to go to Toulouse when they're likely to be losing every week. It's a big step moving from England to France to play RL then travelling to the north of England every other fortnight.

So they don't have much French talent to pick from. It's unlikely English folk will travel down their to live.

Who's left... Aussies and Kiwis. Great a team full of them.

Toulouse should only be in SL once there is at least 10 French players good enough for SL not getting a game for Catalans. Then Toulouse have some chance of having a real French side and compete.

Otherwise you are going to have a team full of Aussies and Kiwis who are looking for a good pay day and won't put effort in.

Edited by barrowraiderskid, 24 June 2013 - 04:53 PM.


#55 deluded pom?

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:17 PM

So who defines if these 10 French players not in the Catalans' squad are good enough to grace SL?


Edited by deluded pom?, 25 June 2013 - 05:43 PM.

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#56 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:22 PM

I think if a city of the same size in England had a RL club who wanted to join SL and also had a long tradition of the sport being played there then nobody on here would question it. Let 'em in!

As for the ground - I think it's important that they do develop their current one rather than share with the RU lot. I think I'm right in saying that the Dragons had a less than pleasant time of it sharing with the local Vichyballers. I doubt very much Toulouse RU will be overly enthusiastic about a new show in town, best to have your own base than have an unhappy groundshare

 

May I say that I am delighted that RBS has used the term Vichyballers.

Toulouse could be huge - they have a treiziste tradition, they are in a fashionable, large wealthy city, they have shown in other fields that a lot of them will turn up to watch top class sport, Les Catalans have already shown that a French SL club can quickly overtake a number of the incumbents, we may get extra TV money.

Toulouse could fail - the player base may be too thin, people may not turn up to watch a team that loses every week, esp given the competing attractions, there may be no extra TV money, the Vichyballers may go out of their way to deny them sponsorship, access to facilities etc.

Given the size of the upside and that most of the risks can be assessed, and you would hope mitigated in advance, then they seem to have a compelling case.

I look forward to watching Nottingham take on Barcelona in 2015!

 

One final point, and like SOL I search the forum for any scraps of "evidence" that will confirm my entrenched position, I think this reinforces my view of the way forward for London as a host city for RL events. People will turn up if the quality is high enough and it is sold well enough. You don't necessarily need a franchise in a place to spread the word.



#57 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:36 PM

TO President quoted in League Express as saying they'd sold 7000 tickets in Toulouse. So anything above that is Dragons fans,HKR fans and freebies I presume


That is an excellent figure.

A French derby could do wonders for the game.

#58 Rascal Bongo Stork

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:49 PM

If you make Toulouse wait until such a time Catalans are literally having to turn away French players then it'll never happen. If they come in then right from the get go you will have a Super League setup in Toulouse and they will start to produce their own players. Yes it might take a good while until you start to see the full fruition of that but what's more likely to produce more French players - 1 French SL club or two? Pretty easy question to answer I think. I have little doubt that Toulouse can support a fully pro RL side, making them jump through so many hoops isnt going to achieve anything.



#59 MikeFletchersBarmyArmy

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:58 PM

No this is Toulouse it's completely different.

First of all Catalan have first dibs of all the French talent. So where is Toulouses French players going to come from seeing as Catalan is there.

They can't attract any real British talent as who would want to go to Toulouse when they're likely to be losing every week. It's a big step moving from England to France to play RL then travelling to the north of England every other fortnight.

So they don't have much French talent to pick from. It's unlikely English folk will travel down their to live.

in.


Is this for real? Why would any Englishman want to do the same job in the south of France than up north in the uk?
Maybe a better standard of living

I think you would be mad If you turned down the opportunity to live there for a few years.

Let's start, you could have just over an hours drive to the Mediterranean, but why would you Want that when you can drive to Scarborough & Blackpool in the same time.
You could live in the north for the beautiful wet summers or have constant sun.
Oh I nearly forgot, in winters you are a couple of hours from a ski resort, but then again if you played at castleford you have the xscape at your doorstep.

#60 joe elliot

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:21 PM

Another reason to have Toulouse in, and answering the French player question is escare's sudden rise, which has only happened because greenshields decided to go back to Oz.
I'd put them in next season
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