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Yesterday was a great day for French Rugby League, Toulouse must be in Super LEague 2015


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#61 RSN

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:32 PM

Is this for real? Why would any Englishman want to do the same job in the south of France than up north in the uk?
Maybe a better standard of living

I think you would be mad If you turned down the opportunity to live there for a few years.

Let's start, you could have just over an hours drive to the Mediterranean, but why would you Want that when you can drive to Scarborough & Blackpool in the same time.
You could live in the north for the beautiful wet summers or have constant sun.
Oh I nearly forgot, in winters you are a couple of hours from a ski resort, but then again if you played at castleford you have the xscape at your doorstep.


Why is there only two Englishmen at Catalans then?

If Toulouse can attract 7 or 8 quality english players then I'll be surprised, especially when an English club will likely be able to match their offer and not relocate, travel every fortnight and leave their families ect.

#62 winnyason

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:37 PM

Really barrow raiders fringe players at catalans is a start, baile, pala, gossard, bathau all more than capable not getting opportunity.
Stacul left catalans because he could not get start at fb where he played quite well, the Bentley boys in particular Kane does well.
Quintella did not get good go at catalans is at to xiii now, griffi young miloudi is another and I would imagine web raguin being a local may play in first season. Why the negative spin ....cannot understand.

#63 RSN

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:56 PM

Really barrow raiders fringe players at catalans is a start, baile, pala, gossard, bathau all more than capable not getting opportunity.
Stacul left catalans because he could not get start at fb where he played quite well, the Bentley boys in particular Kane does well.
Quintella did not get good go at catalans is at to xiii now, griffi young miloudi is another and I would imagine web raguin being a local may play in first season. Why the negative spin ....cannot understand.


I constantly ask on threads where Toulouses players are going to come from and I never get an answer.

I think one of the reasons for the 12 12 split is too accommodate Toulouse and Avignon which will be great for the sport.

I'm not being negative. It's so hard to attract players as I feel we are really stretching the resources we have with fourteen 'super' or 'elite' clubs which ever you are going to call it. Toulouse are going to have to sign 20 players minimum to even compete. You see how hard it is for London to find quality players, it's going to be even harder for Toulouse. If you could draw up a team which Toulouse could realistically field containing majority of French players which are good enough for the 14 club competition then I'd like to see it.

I just think that the step from where they are now to the current SL format is too large players wise. I think they could compete in the 12 12 split though with assisted help from elsewhere.

#64 jim_57

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:49 AM

I constantly ask on threads where Toulouses players are going to come from and I never get an answer.

I think one of the reasons for the 12 12 split is too accommodate Toulouse and Avignon which will be great for the sport.

I'm not being negative. It's so hard to attract players as I feel we are really stretching the resources we have with fourteen 'super' or 'elite' clubs which ever you are going to call it. Toulouse are going to have to sign 20 players minimum to even compete. You see how hard it is for London to find quality players, it's going to be even harder for Toulouse. If you could draw up a team which Toulouse could realistically field containing majority of French players which are good enough for the 14 club competition then I'd like to see it.

I just think that the step from where they are now to the current SL format is too large players wise. I think they could compete in the 12 12 split though with assisted help from elsewhere.


Any new club changing up a division is going to have the same dilemma. Toulouse should be given notice sometime soon if they are to be accepted for 2013. It gives them 2 years of off-contract players to target instead of one.

I would think the initial squad set up would be something like:

10 Current TO 13 players including any fun juniors.
5 Catalans Fringe players.
5 of Elite 1's best
5-8 Imports (Either antipodean or from the UK).

That squad would probably see them favorites for the spoon but they should be reasonably competitive. Once they are there they have something to build on and it's a new avenue for promising French juniors to make a professional career.

What you're saying really seems like a chicken & egg situation. How are we supposed to find all these French full timers needed for Toulouse's entry without an avenue for them to become full timers?
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#65 zorquif

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:08 AM

I think it's more a question of would you really want to either move on your own to a country where you don't speak the lingo, leaving your family and friends, or maybe uproot your (probably) young family to move to somewhere with a foreign culture ad language leaving your support network behind.

Is this for real? Why would any Englishman want to do the same job in the south of France than up north in the uk?
Maybe a better standard of living

I think you would be mad If you turned down the opportunity to live there for a few years.

Let's start, you could have just over an hours drive to the Mediterranean, but why would you Want that when you can drive to Scarborough & Blackpool in the same time.
You could live in the north for the beautiful wet summers or have constant sun.
Oh I nearly forgot, in winters you are a couple of hours from a ski resort, but then again if you played at castleford you have the xscape at your doorstep.



#66 Mumby Magic

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:47 AM

They should start Championship 1.

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#67 The Parksider

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:59 AM

I constantly ask on threads where Toulouses players are going to come from and I never get an answer.

I think one of the reasons for the 12 12 split is too accommodate Toulouse and Avignon which will be great for the sport.

I'm not being negative. It's so hard to attract players as I feel we are really stretching the resources we have with fourteen 'super' or 'elite' clubs which ever you are going to call it.

 

I think the plan is for Toulouse to enter "SL2" in the second tier which acknowledges the player problem.

 

Yes they will struggle with quality French players and may struggle to attract a share of the English player market. They will of course turn to Australia for players, and will get the best they can from where they can.

 

Yes they may struggle for some time, but if their set up offers sustained major investment year on year, and yes they may need a lot of years before French quality players come through, but the prize is too big not to go for it. A return to meaningful England.v.France test games.

 

The investment Toulouse offer and the International RL they also would underpin is what I think you need to match against your alternative to allowing the club into Superleague. Which penniless M62 club on low crowds who can barely develop it's own players despite being in the heartlands were you thinking of instead of Toulouse??



#68 Cliff Spracklen

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:21 PM

I constantly ask on threads where Toulouses players are going to come from and I never get an answer.

I think one of the reasons for the 12 12 split is too accommodate Toulouse and Avignon which will be great for the sport.

I'm not being negative. It's so hard to attract players as I feel we are really stretching the resources we have with fourteen 'super' or 'elite' clubs which ever you are going to call it. Toulouse are going to have to sign 20 players minimum to even compete. You see how hard it is for London to find quality players, it's going to be even harder for Toulouse. If you could draw up a team which Toulouse could realistically field containing majority of French players which are good enough for the 14 club competition then I'd like to see it.

I just think that the step from where they are now to the current SL format is too large players wise. I think they could compete in the 12 12 split though with assisted help from elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course there is not an alternative pool of ready-made, established full-time professional players in France. There is only one full-time professional club, the Catalan Dragons. But then the season before the Dragons entered Super League UTC became a full-time pro club giving the Dragons a year's lead-in time. Before that there were no full-time pro French RL players, only lots of promising part-timers who with a full-time professional training regime could make the transition. Having just one full-time pro team means that is hardly going to change in a big way. Talented youngsters, and France produces many of them as results at Junior international level, either get snapped up by the Dragons, stay part-time in the Elite or leave RL altogether. I even know of talented young players who could have gone to the Dragons but opted against the full-time route because it was too risky to give up a professional secure job/education outside, for they would get only once chance as a pro. If it did not quite work out then they were snookered, with no alternative. Also as pointed out above some pro players if surplus to requirements at the Dragons revert to part-time. Cyril Stacul has just signed for part-time Lezignan for example. Avignon have two or three ex-Dragons but now playing on apart-time basis. The argument that if there were enough potential French SL players and they could not all get into the Dragons squad they would sign for English SL clubs is not relevant One or two might and do occasionally but that is not going to happen. Again it is too risky for them.  A second SL club in Toulouse will give that alternative and reduce the risk somewhat, as well as encouraging more younger athletes in France that RL can offer a good career. Sure it will take some time. The first squad will have a significant antipodean element. But the sooner the decision is made to accept Toulouse into SL the more lead-in time will be available to encourage, increase and assemble, and place in a professional environment, the best of the undoubted young talent that has always existed in France. It just needs time and a stage for that potential talent to be promoted. Toulouse are in no different a position than that which UTC/Catalan Dragons faced before they started SL life.


Edited by Cliff Spracklen, 25 June 2013 - 05:24 PM.


#69 henage

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:32 PM

Is this for real? Why would any Englishman want to do the same job in the south of France than up north in the uk?
Maybe a better standard of living

I think you would be mad If you turned down the opportunity to live there for a few years.

Let's start, you could have just over an hours drive to the Mediterranean, but why would you Want that when you can drive to Scarborough & Blackpool in the same time.
You could live in the north for the beautiful wet summers or have constant sun.
Oh I nearly forgot, in winters you are a couple of hours from a ski resort, but then again if you played at castleford you have the xscape at your doorstep.

Don't knock Scarborough some great surfing spots



#70 deluded pom?

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:48 PM

Don't knock Scarborough some great surfing spots

Internet cafes?


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#71 Northern Sol

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:14 PM

I think the plan is for Toulouse to enter "SL2" in the second tier which acknowledges the player problem.

 

They've already done the equivalent when they joined NL1 / CC. It didn't work. It's SL or stay in Elite 1.



#72 Rascal Bongo Stork

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:29 PM

I assume it'll be SL1 but wouldnt be a mega shock if it was SL2. It would be different from last time, if it was SL2, in that this time they'd be full time pro. Either way I guess the first few years are going to be spent firmly in the 2nd pool of 8, be that coming down into it or going up into it (if that actually is the format of course)



#73 Northern Sol

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:34 PM

I think that a fully professional SL2 is a pipedream, we find it difficult enough to keep 14 clubs solvent whilst operating a full-time set-up.



#74 The Parksider

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:15 PM

I assume it'll be SL1 but wouldn't be a mega shock if it was SL2.

 

I read that Toulouse would be proposed for SL2 as a start.

 

It makes perfect sense. The club has to build a pro team and that takes time, and at the same time they need to win games and not get drubbings off the top eight.

 

If they don't build a team good enough to qualify for SL1 after one year they get longer in SL2 to build and try again.

 

It's been said on here that Toulouse's sojourn in the Championship was marred by the best part time players in France not wanting to break time to travel, it was a silly move and has no bearing on a Toulouse who would operate full time in the second tier and basically build an SL quality team by.........

 

Doing what the mighty Cliff Spracklen says.....

 

The only question it raises for me is the idea Toulouse have to have SL1 before the Maire and local big industrialists get on board.

I hope they don't interpret SL2 as simply the Championship again. I suspect they won't.....



#75 The Daddy_merged

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:29 PM

I read that Toulouse would be proposed for SL2 as a start.

It makes perfect sense. The club has to build a pro team and that takes time, and at the same time they need to win games and not get drubbings off the top eight.

If they don't build a team good enough to qualify for SL1 after one year they get longer in SL2 to build and try again.

It's been said on here that Toulouse's sojourn in the Championship was marred by the best part time players in France not wanting to break time to travel, it was a silly move and has no bearing on a Toulouse who would operate full time in the second tier and basically build an SL quality team by.........

Doing what the mighty Cliff Spracklen says.....

The only question it raises for me is the idea Toulouse have to have SL1 before the Maire and local big industrialists get on board.
I hope they don't interpret SL2 as simply the Championship again. I suspect they won't.....


Why would they not? Attendances for the last time they were in the english second tier tells us whether this would be a success or not. French league fans will not part with their money to watch this level of football no matter what you call it, the championship os SL2.
I also wouldn't expect sponsors or the local marie to invest in a team at this level as the last foray indicates. Sports fans in Toulouse want to watch the top level of our sport and any other introduction would back fire.

#76 The Parksider

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:59 PM

1. Why would they not? Attendances for the last time they were in the english second tier tells us whether this would be a success or not.

 

2. French league fans will not part with their money to watch this level of football no matter what you call it, the championship is SL2.

 

3. I also wouldn't expect sponsors or the local marie to invest in a team at this level as the last foray indicates.

 

4. Sports fans in Toulouse want to watch the top level of our sport and any other introduction would back fire.

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

1. The big difference is in the CC campaign Toulouse fielded a weak semi pro side, whereas in SL2 they will be expected to go fully professional.

 

2. You do the "fan" a dis-service. Widnes fans smelt Superleague in 2011 because Mr O'Connor was a millionaire professionalising the club and they returned 4,000 crowds despite being mid table. Fans can smell success and have a history of riding bandwagons.

 

3. In the last foray Toulouse were given no assurances of Superleague at all. This time Messrs Lenegan, McManus, Moran and Hetherington (will accept corrections as regards the exact names) visited the club recently and gave them the green light. This won't be lost on smart investors because it was intended for smart investors

 

4. What would backfire is if Toulouse were put in SL1 and proceeded to lose most of their games.

 

What would be the better option is to put Toulouse in SL2 (with their millions) and pit them against semi pro clubs and ex-pro clubs booted out of SL and SL clubs who got dropped to the middle 8 league.

 

Fans just love their clubs spending money and winning games and the plan for Toulouse in SL2 to start with makes great sense.

 

Again don't underestimate the power of the fan to understand what's going on and to smell a club "on the up"...


Edited by The Parksider, 25 June 2013 - 08:00 PM.


#77 Northern Sol

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:09 PM

Thank you for your reply.

 

1. The big difference is in the CC campaign Toulouse fielded a weak semi pro side, whereas in SL2 they will be expected to go fully professional.

 

SL2 = CC under another name



#78 The Daddy_merged

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:30 PM

SL2 = CC under another name


Exactly, I rest my case.

Edited by The Daddy_merged, 25 June 2013 - 08:31 PM.


#79 sweaty craiq

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:09 PM

Not read all posts but anyone not wanting Toulouse into the SL structure is daft
Two tens to let them build because a season of thrashings could have a negative, allow them unlimited cap self funded in sl2, win promotion and watch them fly
Objective must be 4 French clubs within 10 years

#80 keighley

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:17 AM

Not read all posts but anyone not wanting Toulouse into the SL structure is daft
Two tens to let them build because a season of thrashings could have a negative, allow them unlimited cap self funded in sl2, win promotion and watch them fly
Objective must be 4 French clubs within 10 years

That's fine if it is intended to expand the size of SL. however if the intention is to reduce the size of the English section of SL to to 10 or 8 teams, this will be a disaster for the game in England and reduce our spectator base and TV viewing numbers and marginalise to even fewer areas than the current set up.




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