Jump to content





Photo
- - - - -

Harry Sunderland


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
232 replies to this topic

#1 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 42,196 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:16 AM

I think it is wrong that there is a trophy named in his honour


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#2 ehbandit

ehbandit
  • Coach
  • 697 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:20 AM

why?

#3 brooza

brooza
  • Moderator
  • 4,453 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:26 PM

why?

Because of reasons. That's why.


St Albans Centurions 1st Team Manager. Former Medway Dragons Wheelchair RL player.

Leeds Rhinos, St Albans Centurions y Griffons Madrid fan. Also follow (to a lesser extent) Catalans Dragons, London Broncos, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Jacksonville Axemen, Vrchlabi Mad Squirrels, København Black Swans, Red Star Belgrade and North Hertfordshire Crusaders.

Moderator of the International board

#4 ehbandit

ehbandit
  • Coach
  • 697 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:27 PM

Because of reasons. That's why.

haha, ye, but what reasons?

#5 Ant

Ant
  • Coach
  • 3,208 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:28 PM

Isn't the MoM of the grand final awarded the Harry Sunderland medal?

#6 brooza

brooza
  • Moderator
  • 4,453 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:32 PM

Isn't the MoM of the grand final awarded the Harry Sunderland medal?

the Harry Sunderland Trophy is awarded to the man-of-the-match in the European Super League Grand Final. In addition, the Harry Sunderland Medal is the award given to the best Australian player in each home Ashes series.


Edited by brooza, 27 June 2013 - 12:32 PM.

St Albans Centurions 1st Team Manager. Former Medway Dragons Wheelchair RL player.

Leeds Rhinos, St Albans Centurions y Griffons Madrid fan. Also follow (to a lesser extent) Catalans Dragons, London Broncos, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Jacksonville Axemen, Vrchlabi Mad Squirrels, København Black Swans, Red Star Belgrade and North Hertfordshire Crusaders.

Moderator of the International board

#7 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 42,196 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:33 PM

Isn't the MoM of the grand final awarded the Harry Sunderland medal?

in Aus, in the UK it's a trophy

and when Jason Robinson collected it, the irony was perfect


Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 27 June 2013 - 12:34 PM.

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#8 ehbandit

ehbandit
  • Coach
  • 697 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:34 PM

correct
and when Jasn Robinson collected it, the irony was perfect

think I get your point, was he racist?

Edited by ehbandit, 27 June 2013 - 12:36 PM.


#9 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 42,196 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:10 PM

think I get your point, was he racist?

Roy Francis is a legend in rugby lesgue
He was at Wigan when Sunderland took over as manager
He was forced to leave the club because as Geoffrey Moorhouse says in 'A People's Game'- silly title I know; "he had no time for blacks"

Of course that kind of racism was more acceptable then, but nevertheless it goes against everything we hold dear in the values of the game. There are more worthy people that we could dedicate the trophy/medal to
WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#10 fieldofclothofgold

fieldofclothofgold
  • Coach
  • 5,829 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:24 PM

Roy Francis is a legend in rugby lesgue
He was at Wigan when Sunderland took over as manager
He was forced to leave the club because as Geoffrey Moorhouse says in 'A People's Game'- silly title I know; "he had no time for blacks"

Of course that kind of racism was more acceptable then, but nevertheless it goes against everything we hold dear in the values of the game. There are more worthy people that we could dedicate the trophy/medal to

In that case you have a valid reason.Have you just read this recently?


but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

#11 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 42,196 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:27 PM

In that case you have a valid reason.Have you just read this recently?

Yes
I've read the book many times

Edit: I quoted directly from the book

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 27 June 2013 - 01:29 PM.

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#12 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 42,196 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:36 PM

In that case you have a valid reason.Have you just read this recently?

I think there are other references to his attitudes to black players elsewhere


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#13 hindle xiii

hindle xiii
  • Coach
  • 21,157 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:49 PM

and when Jason Robinson collected it, the irony was perfect

Leon Pryce then, too.


If you use "should of", "would of" or "could of", you are a moron.

On Odsal Top baht 'at.

 


#14 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 42,196 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:54 PM

Leon Pryce then, too.

absolutely

 

 

rugby league already had a tradition of accepting people of different races at the time, that was why Francis was playing for Wigan in the first race. For Francis to have to leave because of the colour of his skin was scandalous even then.


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#15 Johnoco

Johnoco
  • Coach
  • 20,343 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:55 PM

I'd have to know more about him before agreeing he should be erased from history. Was he he racist or is it possible that he was taken out of context? (sort of)
Very different times and people often said stuff like that without really thinking about it.

#16 Derwent

Derwent
  • Coach
  • 8,075 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:01 PM

On the plus side of the ledger he was credited for being at the forefront of the rise of the game in Queensland, and later played a huge role in developing and introducing the sport in France.

#17 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 42,196 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:02 PM

I'd have to know more about him before agreeing he should be erased from history. Was he he racist or is it possible that he was taken out of context? (sort of)
Very different times and people often said stuff like that without really thinking about it.

who said anything about him being erased from history

it wasn't what he said it was what he did.


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#18 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 42,196 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:04 PM

On the plus side of the ledger he was credited for being at the forefront of the rise of the game in Queensland, and later played a huge role in developing and introducing the sport in France.

and that stays on the record

it doesn't buy him the right to be a racist and for a prestigious award given to outstanding players no matter what their race


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#19 Derwent

Derwent
  • Coach
  • 8,075 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:10 PM

 

and that stays on the record
it doesn't buy him the right to be a racist and for a prestigious award given to outstanding players no matter what their race


I'm not condoning anything he did in that regard, but neither do I have a "guilt by proxy" complex that you seem to have. Many people held those views at that time and he was from Australia which, in my experience, is still one of the most racist countries in the world - certainly far in excess of the UK - so god knows what it was like in those days.

I'm sure if you dig hard enough you'll find skeletons in the closets of Lance Todd or Dally Messenger too, things which are considered unsavoury today but were acceptable at the time. Sometimes its best just to let sleeping dogs lie.

#20 Johnoco

Johnoco
  • Coach
  • 20,343 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:19 PM

who said anything about him being erased from history
it wasn't what he said it was what he did.

Well if the award was sacked he would slowly dissappear so its effectively the same thing.
I don't know what he did - what was it?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users