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Arming the "rebels" in syria

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#61 archibald

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 05:57 PM

Nobody's pretending to be massacred in syria, People are being massacred on both sides by both sides, nobody has clean hands in this civil war. They won't need to fly 737's into Blackpool tower to harm us, if they are succeful in toppling Assad like Gaddafi they will get their hands on all kinds of weaponry that can do considerable damage to us both at home and abroad, just like the attack on the US embassy in Benghazi. Not to mention Syria's stockpile of chemical weapons.

We're in the realms of "45 minutes from apocalypse" now, or whatever the last lot said would happen.



#62 walter sobchak

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 05:58 PM

Well duh. If they didn't they'd either never intervene or intervene all the time. Even the US doesn't have the resources to be able to intervene in every conflict. Therefore you want them to never intervene.
 
You don't give a reason why the protesters were okay until the US got involved (in so far as they are involved). What changed (aside from US involvement)?

The only problem is that the US has and is only intervening against anti-US dictators, what I've been trying to ram home to you for day's. In Iraq, Libya and now Syria but didn't lift a finger in Yemen, Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain. I'm guessing that you can't be that stupid not to see this and that you must be a neocon sympathizer and a supporter of US imperialism in the region.

#63 Northern Sol

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:02 PM

The only problem is that the US has and is only intervening against anti-US dictators, what I've been trying to ram home to you for day's. In Iraq, Libya and now Syria but didn't lift a finger in Yemen, Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain. I'm guessing that you can't be that stupid not to see this and that you must be a neocon sympathizer and a supporter of US imperialism in the region.

And the point that you don't see is that Bahrain was the only state where there was a pro-US dictator that was demonstrated against.

 

Why would they intervene in UAE, Oman, Saudi, Qatar etc where there are no significant "Arab Spring" protests?

 

Perhaps if you stopped trying to apply labels and actually thought about things logically the world might make more sense.



#64 archibald

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:04 PM

The only problem is that the US has and is only intervening against anti-US dictators, what I've been trying to ram home to you for day's.

They're hardly going to be intervening with those pro-US dictators are they.



#65 Northern Sol

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:07 PM

They're hardly going to be intervening with those pro-US dictators are they.

The other being that it took them three years to intervene in Syria and Syria was a police state.

 

The demonstrations in Bahrain didn't last three years and Bahrain isn't a "failed state" like Libya, Iraq or Syria.

 

Bahrainis are rich. It's just not a very equal society.



#66 walter sobchak

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:08 PM

They're hardly going to be intervening with those pro-US dictators are they.


Thats exactly my point!

#67 archibald

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:21 PM

Thats exactly my point!

Do you want them to or something, because that's never going to happen.



#68 walter sobchak

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:22 PM

Do you want them to or something, because that's never going to happen.


No, I'm just exposing the hypocrisy and double standards of US policy in the region and their apologists. I'd like to see the US keep it's big nose out of other countries business and politics.

#69 Northern Sol

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:32 PM

No, I'm just exposing the hypocrisy and double standards of US policy in the region and their apologists. I'd like to see the US keep it's big nose out of other countries business and politics.

If you think that the US should keep its nose out of other countries' business then why do you think Arab states should be involved in the Palestine-Israel conflict?

 

Hypocrisy much?

 

They complain about Israel killing Muslims when they are quite happy to kill Muslims themselves. They complain about Israel's treatment of Palestinians when they treat them like ###### themselves.



#70 archibald

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:16 PM

No, I'm just exposing the hypocrisy and double standards of US policy in the region and their apologists. I'd like to see the US keep it's big nose out of other countries business and politics.

You're not exposing anything. It's no big secret, America likes it's friends and doesn't like it's enemies.



#71 walter sobchak

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:25 PM

You're not exposing anything. It's no big secret, America likes it's friends and doesn't like it's enemies.


It's " friends" are pro-US Arab dictators and it's "enimies" are anti-US arab dictators. As the saying goes they maybe S.O.B.'s but they're our S.O.B.'s.

#72 walter sobchak

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:28 PM

If you think that the US should keep its nose out of other countries' business then why do you think Arab states should be involved in the Palestine-Israel conflict?
 
Hypocrisy much?
 
They complain about Israel killing Muslims when they are quite happy to kill Muslims themselves. They complain about Israel's treatment of Palestinians when they treat them like ###### themselves.

Because its their neighbourhood and Palestinians are their brothers and sisters.

#73 Northern Sol

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:39 PM

Because its their neighbourhood and Palestinians are their brothers and sisters.

So no complaints when the US intervenes in its "neighbourhood" to help its brother and sisters?

 

I strongly suspect otherwise.


Edited by Northern Sol, 29 June 2013 - 08:40 PM.


#74 Li0nhead

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 12:12 AM

So Walter Sobchak what you are saying is when the US acts they are wrong. When they don't act they are wrong.

When they help a rebel movement they are wrong. When they don't help a rebel movement they are wrong.

When they help a friendly dictator they are wrong. When they don't help a friendly dictator they are wrong.

When they help their friends they are wrong. When they don't help their friends they are wrong.

 

Reads like that to me reading your points on here. 



#75 walter sobchak

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 04:46 AM

So Walter Sobchak what you are saying is when the US acts they are wrong. When they don't act they are wrong.
When they help a rebel movement they are wrong. When they don't help a rebel movement they are wrong.
When they help a friendly dictator they are wrong. When they don't help a friendly dictator they are wrong.
When they help their friends they are wrong. When they don't help their friends they are wrong.
 
Reads like that to me reading your points on here.

You obviously haven't understood what I've been trying to get across so again I'll try one last time. I don't want the US to intervene in any middle east/Persian gulf country be it an anti-US dictatorship like Libya, Iraq or Syria because all they want to do is increase their hegemony in the region by swapping one dictator for another dictator, their own puppet dictator and kill and wound tens of thousands of innocent civilians in the process, hundreds of thousands in iraqs case. Neither do I want the US to intervene militarily in their pro-US puppet dictatorships and client states like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain etc, I just want the US to stop propping them up by selling them tens of billions of $$$ worth of arms a year so they can crush their own populations freedom and democracy movements and uprisings. So in short I oppose US imperialism and hegemony in the region, I hope that clears it up for you. Somehow I doubt it has.

#76 walter sobchak

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 04:51 AM

So no complaints when the US intervenes in its "neighbourhood" to help its brother and sisters?
 
I strongly suspect otherwise.

Just to be clear, what do you class as the US's "neighbourhood" ?

#77 Northern Sol

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 08:15 AM

Just to be clear, what do you class as the US's "neighbourhood" ?

You evidently see the whole Middle East and North Africa as "one region" where it is natural to intervene in the internal affairs of other states. Based on this, if you had any consistency, then the whole of North America, Central America and the Caribbean would be the US' backyard where they have a "right" to involve themselves in others' affairs.



#78 Northern Sol

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 08:16 AM

You obviously haven't understood what I've been trying to get across so again I'll try one last time. I don't want the US to intervene in any middle east/Persian gulf country be it an anti-US dictatorship like Libya, Iraq or Syria because all they want to do is increase their hegemony in the region by swapping one dictator for another dictator, their own puppet dictator and kill and wound tens of thousands of innocent civilians in the process, hundreds of thousands in iraqs case. Neither do I want the US to intervene militarily in their pro-US puppet dictatorships and client states like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain etc, I just want the US to stop propping them up by selling them tens of billions of $$$ worth of arms a year so they can crush their own populations freedom and democracy movements and uprisings. So in short I oppose US imperialism and hegemony in the region, I hope that clears it up for you. Somehow I doubt it has.

The thing is that you are quite in favour of Iranian hegemony throughout the region with their puppet dictators and hundreds of thousands being killed not wounded.



#79 GeordieSaint

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 08:49 AM

Is Walter 'George Galloway'?  ;)


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#80 JohnM

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 09:24 AM

So Walter Sobchak what you are saying is when the US acts they are wrong. When they don't act they are wrong.

When they help a rebel movement they are wrong. When they don't help a rebel movement they are wrong.

When they help a friendly dictator they are wrong. When they don't help a friendly dictator they are wrong.

When they help their friends they are wrong. When they don't help their friends they are wrong.

 

Reads like that to me reading your points on here. 

 

 

Are we talking the US here or the RFL?






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