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Fans to be consulted on Super League structure changes

Super League Fans consultation

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49 replies to this topic

#21 Cherry and White

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:11 AM

people who have read that report state that superleague works out at £23m per year.

 

http://forums.digita...d.php?t=1699938

 

 

posts 12 and 15


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#22 LordCharles

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:51 AM

people who have read that report state that superleague works out at £23m per year.

 

http://forums.digita...d.php?t=1699938

 

 

posts 12 and 15

 

As I said my proposed figures are not exact, but close as the information regarding some of the financials is'nt the clearest.



#23 RSN

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:40 AM

I thought fans were blinkered by bias towards their own club hence no one should care about their opinion. Well that's the view of Steve McNamara, but then again bias is much more likely to occur in this situation rather than the selection of the England squad.



#24 JohnM

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:48 AM

Nothing to do with Steve McNamara , though, so why bring it in?



#25 a.n Other

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:30 AM

No they don't. It is only deeply unpopular with a few. But not as many as those of us who don't like , support, want automatic single-season points-based P and R

I think you are wrong on this. Everyone i know who is interested in RL wants a return to P&R, whether or not they are a fan of a SL club or a Championship club.

Where is you evidence up suggest that the majority of people don't want a return to single season P&R?

Edited by a.n Other, 02 July 2013 - 10:31 AM.


#26 Ant

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:05 PM

I don't want to see that again

It will set RL in this country back a decade

#27 Methven Hornet

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:16 PM

The divide between SL and Championship funding (Sky/TV Money) has to be addressed, by creating 2 SL Divisions of 10 this could be achieved giving SL2 Teams a realistic chance of being in a position player and infrastructure wise to cope far better with promotion to SL1.

 

SL 1 - 10 teams getting £1,687,500 each (Plus a further £67,000 from the share of £2 Million)

SL 2/Championship - 10 teams getting 75% of the remaining £9,767,500 (£8,437,500 + £1,330,000)...........so that's £732,562.50 each

 

Championship 1 - 2 Divisions of 10 Teams (North & South) getting the remaining 25% between them £2,441,875.00...........So that's £106,168.00 each

 

At least that way you can create an opportunity for 20 full time clubs and a SL2 competition that can deliver clubs able to cope far better with a P & R system than previous and a regionalised semi pro competition in which each club receives far more than any Championship 1 club does currently from the system.

 

Unfortunately, for the greater good of the game it needs certain existing SL clubs to accept that in order to take two steps forward long term they need to take one step back short term.

 

But now you've just created a divide between SL2/Championship and Championship 1 to replace the current one between Super League and the Championship. I don't there is any way in which Championship clubs could bridge that gap.

And we're fooling ourselves if we think competitions based largely on M62-land can support 20 fulltime clubs.


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#28 Mumby Magic

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:26 PM

We moan when we haven't a say we moan when we do. The 8x8x8 will kill the game off at many levels. Tis farcical. I van't believe it is even being considered.

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#29 LordCharles

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:36 PM

But now you've just created a divide between SL2/Championship and Championship 1 to replace the current one between Super League and the Championship. I don't there is any way in which Championship clubs could bridge that gap.

And we're fooling ourselves if we think competitions based largely on M62-land can support 20 fulltime clubs.

 

Relative to the current money a Championship 1 club gets it is a significant improvement and will allow them to operate in a better manner on a number of fronts, plus the regional structure will reduce the impact on travel costs, player availabilty etc.

 

I doubt, considering the infrastructure required within a club to meet criteria for SL1 when moving up from SL2/Championship, Championship 1 clubs would need to the to be in a position to meet equivalently stringent criteria to move from Championship 1 up to SL2/Championship, they also only have 1 team to cater for in Championship 1, where as Clubs in SL2/Championship would have a first grade and U23's.

 

A well run Championship 1 club would comfortably make the transition providing it was proactive early in identifying players for the following season and spent wisely given the considerable playing budget it would then have.

 

SL1 gates would average upwards of 7,000 and I think that would be a suitable figure to make it viable to all 10 SL1 clubs, some would obviously get regular gates well in advance of that figure, but overall 7,000+ for all fixtures as a minimum in SL1 would make it work IMHO.

 

If you say average crowds for SL2 would be 3500 - 5000 given the likely interest in a strong, intense and balanced competition and the fact they have an opportunity through the 8 match Cup competition to take on SL1 teams, I think SL1 & 2 would be more than capable of housing 20 Full time teams.


Edited by LordCharles, 02 July 2013 - 01:42 PM.


#30 LordCharles

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:01 PM

Lets do the maths for SL2/Championship clubs

 

 

13 Home fixtures averaging a gate of 3,500 = 45,500 spectators through the gate each season.

 

50% as full paying adults @ £15 per head = £341,250.00

50% as Concessions @ £5 per head = £113,750.00

 

Total home gate revenue of £455,000.00

 

TV Money £732,562.50 + £455,000.00 = £1,187,562.50

 

You can then take in to account merchandise, commercial opportunities, match day hospitality revenue, sponsorship etc etc, giving you a stable foundation to build a solid club if managed appropriately on and off the field in preparation to compete at a higher level should the opportunity present itself.


Edited by LordCharles, 02 July 2013 - 02:01 PM.


#31 Evil Homer

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:00 PM

SL1 gates would average upwards of 7,000

So you're advocating a system that would see crowds at the top level decrease.



#32 LordCharles

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:12 PM

So you're advocating a system that would see crowds at the top level decrease.

 

Lost me now, "average upwards of 7,000" is nothing more than a statement to suggest as a minimum, given the crowds over the past seasons in SL, the very least you can expect are gates of 7,000 + within the top tier of the competition.

 

Further supported by "some would obviously get regular gates well in advance of that figure, but overall 7,000+ for all fixtures as a minimum in SL1 would make it work IMHO".



#33 amh

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 04:05 PM

The OP was raised and discussed 26 June in the 'If you could ask Nigel Wood 1 question, what would it be?' thread - I did email the RFL about it - the most relevant part to the OP and posts here...

 

"Please be aware that whilst the RFL is happy to listen to the views of the RLSA, they are a non-representative, unelected body: the views aired at next week’s meeting will carry no more or any less weight than those put forward by individuals directly to their clubs or the RFL.

The ultimate decision on league structure will be decided by the RFL’s independent Board of Directors, whose job it is to find a solution that is in the best interests of the whole sport – clearly whatever they decide will not please everybody!"


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#34 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 04:43 PM

I don't want to see that again

It will set RL in this country back a decade


Getting rid of it has set the game back 20 years. If your club hadnt stayed up I doubt youd be happy stuck in the CC

#35 Evil Homer

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

^ You are a complete buffoon.

 

Lost me now, "average upwards of 7,000" is nothing more than a statement to suggest as a minimum, given the crowds over the past seasons in SL, the very least you can expect are gates of 7,000 + within the top tier of the competition.

 

Further supported by "some would obviously get regular gates well in advance of that figure, but overall 7,000+ for all fixtures as a minimum in SL1 would make it work IMHO".

The season average this year is close to 9,000, and that is significantly down on the last few years. In fact you'd have to go back to 2003 to find an average crowd below 8,000. So in effect, a competition with an average of 'upwards of 7,000' would literally be setting the sport back 10 years.



#36 Keith T

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:16 PM

No they don't. It is only deeply unpopular with a few.  But not as many as those of us who don't like , support, want  automatic single-season points-based P and R


So how would you decide which SL clubs are relegated to get the number down to 12 or 10? Is that not going to be decided by a points based relegation system?

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#37 LordCharles

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:17 PM

^ You are a complete buffoon.

 

The season average this year is close to 9,000, and that is significantly down on the last few years. In fact you'd have to go back to 2003 to find an average crowd below 8,000. So in effect, a competition with an average of 'upwards of 7,000' would literally be setting the sport back 10 years.

 

I think you will find that my figures of 7,000 minimum were to highlight the worst case scenario and outline that if that was the case it would still be a viable competition. Again I think you will find that I went on to state that clubs would get gates well in advance of that, so it is more likely that they will be far better off when operating with gates of 9K, 10K, or in some instances 15K plus, making it a very strong financial concept.

 

Curb your tone fella, its a discussion forum for debate.


Edited by LordCharles, 02 July 2013 - 05:18 PM.


#38 gingerjon

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:19 PM

The OP was raised and discussed 26 June in the 'If you could ask Nigel Wood 1 question, what would it be?' thread - I did email the RFL about it - the most relevant part to the OP and posts here...
 
"Please be aware that whilst the RFL is happy to listen to the views of the RLSA, they are a non-representative, unelected body: the views aired at next week’s meeting will carry no more or any less weight than those put forward by individuals directly to their clubs or the RFL.
The ultimate decision on league structure will be decided by the RFL’s independent Board of Directors, whose job it is to find a solution that is in the best interests of the whole sport – clearly whatever they decide will not please everybody!"


So, basically, it's a talking shop.
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#39 Cliff Spracklen

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:25 PM

Letting the lunatics take over the asylum?

 

Interesting. ;)

Are you referring to rugby league fans and/or supporters trusts here?



#40 Ant

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:44 PM

Aren't they the same thing?