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forward passes going to video ref


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#1 Carnie's Cover

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:58 PM

watched the third lions test yesterday and I was very surprised to see the second lions try was referred up stairs to the video ref to check for a forward pass...... what was interesting was they took no notice of the flight of the ball but the position of the player hands who threw the ball. simply the decision is were the players hands passing the ball backwards yes or no. I think this should be adopted in RL, it is not often we take anything from RU but this should be.

 

thoughts?


Edited by Carnie's Cover, 07 July 2013 - 06:59 PM.


#2 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:04 PM

watched the third lions test yesterday and I was very surprised to see the second lions try was referred up stairs to the video ref to check for a forward pass...... what was interesting was they took no notice of the flight of the ball but the position of the player hands who threw the ball. simply the decision is were the players hands passing the ball backwards yes or no. I think this should be adopted in RL, it is not often we take anything from RU but this should be.

thoughts?


If I remember correctly the rule in League states the ball must go backwards from the hands, i.e. if you pass it backwards and it bounces forward its play on.

#3 Padge

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:05 PM

No no no no no.

 

It is absolutely not possible to get forward passes accurately judged by TV cameras.

 

I saw that one you are on about and it looked forward to me, the ref thought it was forward, the video ref thought not.

 

Others may watch it and say it wasn't forward, the angle of view makes all the difference, the hands is a complete red herring.



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#4 Padge

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:06 PM

If I remember correctly the rule in League states the ball must go backwards from the hands, i.e. if you pass it backwards and it bounces forward its play on.

No it states the ball must not go forward, it doesn't say it must go backwards, the backwards thing is a complete myth.


Edited by Padge, 07 July 2013 - 07:06 PM.


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#5 Carnie's Cover

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:07 PM

why discount it? if the video ref cannot make a decision it becomes ref's call which I believe happens in the NRL..... video refs don't have a clear angle for a lot of tries but we don't drop it.....



#6 Old Frightful

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:08 PM

Pah!

 

You lot seem to have no shame coming out of the Union closet.


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#7 Carnie's Cover

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:31 PM

I have no shame.



#8 bobbruce

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:34 PM

How would the video ref take wind into account

#9 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:40 PM

How would the video ref take wind into account

Bisodol?


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#10 Padge

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:59 PM

Pah!

 

You lot seem to have no shame coming out of the Union closet.

Oddly I was on my way to a rugby league 1895 play at Wigan museum, a play devised by Tony Collins, when I stopped off for a shandy, didn't want to over smell of beer at a kuds even. As I drank my shandy the afore mentioned incident happened, it was the only bit of the game I saw. Also its obviously the only bit of the game worth mentioning.



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#11 tonyXIII

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:13 PM

Oddly I was on my way to a rugby league 1895 play at Wigan museum, a play devised by Tony Collins, when I stopped off for a shandy, didn't want to over smell of beer at a kuds even. As I drank my shandy the afore mentioned incident happened, it was the only bit of the game I saw. Also its obviously the only bit of the game worth mentioning.

 

A likely story! You were glued to it from start to finish. ;)

 

Anyway, I get the idea that the VR would find it difficult to judge forward passes. However, I would like to see it trialled. Not so that decisions could be overturned, just "How did the VR see that one?" It might not be as difficult as we think.


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#12 Impartial Observer

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:34 PM

...... what was interesting was they took no notice of the flight of the ball but the position of the player hands who threw the ball.

This is what the Refs look for in RL and have done so for numerous years.



#13 Padge

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:37 PM

A likely story! You were glued to it from start to finish. ;)

 

Anyway, I get the idea that the VR would find it difficult to judge forward passes. However, I would like to see it trialled. Not so that decisions could be overturned, just "How did the VR see that one?" It might not be as difficult as we think.

 

You have so many problems, a ref has to take in to account did the ball get blown forward by the wind after the player released the ball is just the start of it.


Edited by Padge, 07 July 2013 - 08:38 PM.


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#14 tonyXIII

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:42 PM

You have so many problems, a ref has to take in to account did the ball get blown forward by the wind after the player released the ball is just the start of it.

 

Which is why I wouldn't use it to overturn decisions. I would just test it to see if it is feasible or if the problems are insurmountable. I think it could be tested.


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#15 Carnie's Cover

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:35 PM

This is what the Refs look for in RL and have done so for numerous years.

have you ever officiated? I have done it for 4 years and it is bloody difficult to watch for this dependant on the angle you are at, who is in your way, the speed at which the game is played etc etc..... which is pretty much why video refs are there any way to help the refs with the bits they could not see.



#16 Johnoco

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:52 PM

How about issuing the linesmen with either glasses or P45's so they actually can see when the ball is passed forward? (ie when I say so)

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#17 Duff Duff

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:16 PM

I know this is a Union video but it is quite good at showing that even if you pass the ball over your head the ball can travel forward relative to the ground. My understanding was that the ball has to travel backwards from the passer at the moment of release.



#18 SE4Wire

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:17 PM

Beat me to it Duff Duff, was about to dig that out

Edit: I was actually about to dig out the 7 min Aussie one from years ago with similar drills


Edited by SE4Wire, 07 July 2013 - 11:26 PM.


#19 Duff Duff

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:35 PM

They are good videos aren't they? I have had so many arguments with people who refuse to acknowledge the need for the forward pass to be relative to the passer at the moment of release and not the ground or the other players. People are very set in their ways about a pass "looking right" and that the pass has to travel absolutely backwards.

If you took the absolute interpretation of the forward pass law then rugby would be an unplayable sport.

#20 Old Frightful

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:46 PM

have you ever officiated? I have done it for 4 years and it is bloody difficult to watch for this dependant on the angle you are at, who is in your way, the speed at which the game is played etc etc..... which is pretty much why video refs are there any way to help the refs with the bits they could not see.

Ooooh, I think you may well get a reply to this if I'm not much mistaken,


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