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Lee Briers

1 year deal with Hull KR?

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#21 Dave T

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:50 PM

Warrington are the only club in the salary cap era who are able to stockpile players in key positions to such an extent that they're habitually sending seasoned internationals out on dual reg.

Whether they are cheating the cap I've no idea, but they do well to fit so many top line players under the cap when even clubs like Leeds and Saints are forced to pad their squads out with kids and journeymen such as Stu Howarth, Joe Vickery etc.

Who are these players that we are stockpiling?

 

We don't habitually send internatiionals out on dual reg, Briers, Morley and Bridge have all played a game for Swinton on return from injuries, don't be so melodramatic as it actually weakens your argument.

 

Despite what the likes of you often spout, our squad is not full of internationals at all, we have been sensible in some signings and got the best out of some rather average players that other clubs have been happy to offload (Solomona, Bridge, Higham etc).

 

We also have, Riley, Wood, Cooper, McCarthy, Harrison, Evans, Blythe, Williams, O'Brien and Currie in our first 25 who are all club-developed players and hardly worldwide stars.

 

Just to be simplistic about this, our first 13 players could be on £100k per year (they won't all be) and our next 12 could be on £50k per year (they won't all be) and that is £1.9m. Pretty much the cap.

 

You seem to have a rather large chip on your shoulder about Warrington, and tbh I'm surprised your claims are allowed to go unchallenged on here.

 

Are you saying that Warrington are breaking the salary cap, and what proof do you have?



#22 Dave T

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:51 PM

Yeah he does.few whispers he's gonna call it a day though this year.

I wouldn't be surprised if he did tbh.



#23 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:05 PM

Who are these players that we are stockpiling?

 

We don't habitually send internatiionals out on dual reg, Briers, Morley and Bridge have all played a game for Swinton on return from injuries, don't be so melodramatic as it actually weakens your argument.

 

Despite what the likes of you often spout, our squad is not full of internationals at all, we have been sensible in some signings and got the best out of some rather average players that other clubs have been happy to offload (Solomona, Bridge, Higham etc).

 

We also have, Riley, Wood, Cooper, McCarthy, Harrison, Evans, Blythe, Williams, O'Brien and Currie in our first 25 who are all club-developed players and hardly worldwide stars.

 

Just to be simplistic about this, our first 13 players could be on £100k per year (they won't all be) and our next 12 could be on £50k per year (they won't all be) and that is £1.9m. Pretty much the cap.

 

You seem to have a rather large chip on your shoulder about Warrington, and tbh I'm surprised your claims are allowed to go unchallenged on here.

 

Are you saying that Warrington are breaking the salary cap, and what proof do you have?

 

Not sure it's a case of them not being challenged, more a case of many of us, can't be bothered to argue the toss over such nonsense.

 

Warrington has done an outstanding job in recent years. They had opportunities provided by a wealthy back and the prospect of a good new ground, and have seized the opportunity with both hands.



#24 Dave T

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:05 PM

Warrington are the only club in the salary cap era who are able to stockpile players in key positions to such an extent that they're habitually sending seasoned internationals out on dual reg.

Whether they are cheating the cap I've no idea, but they do well to fit so many top line players under the cap when even clubs like Leeds and Saints are forced to pad their squads out with kids and journeymen such as Stu Howarth, Joe Vickery etc.

Just to pick up on the Saints point, have you even looked at their squad?

 

Wellens - international, top star of the game

Gardner - international

Turner - signed him up this year

Soliola - international

Meli - international

Hohaiha - international

Lomax - young star of the future apparently

Perry - NRL star and international

Roby - international superstar

LMS - international

Puletua - international

Manu - top class SL player

Laffranchi - international

Flanagan - decent player

Walmsley - poached from the Championship

 

They then have a handful of young players who were apparently going to be the future of SL, including:

Makinson

Clough

Wheeler

Jones

Percival

 

And a couple of players like:

Howarth

O'Brien on loan

 

So the makeup of their squad is a strong 15 or so, littered with internationals. The next 5 being young lads expected to be stars. Another couple of players possibly short term signings. They then have another three youth players to make up their 25.

 

Wire have a solid first 17 littered with internationals supplemented with a further 8 locally developed players to fill up the squad.

 

Whilst you also mention Leeds with the signing of Vickery, you then ignore the signing of Moon to complement their huge list of international stars.

 

Using leeds and Saints was a bad example.



#25 HKR AWAY DAYS

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 05:36 PM

With all due respect to Lee Briers, who has been a good one, we're not a retirement home. Briers should go to Salford with Meli and Morley. 

 

The rumour is complete tosh any road...

 

In other news, keep a check on the availability of Canberra's Sam Williams and Newcastle's Neville Costigan.



#26 ELBOWSEYE

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:49 PM

Do players who have had a testimonial (10 years at the one club) have all the wages count against the cap, I thought the dispensation was 50% only counts, Briers, Westwood, Wood have all count in this area.

#27 Dave T

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:52 PM

Do players who have had a testimonial (10 years at the one club) have all the wages count against the cap, I thought the dispensation was 50% only counts, Briers, Westwood, Wood have all count in this area.

There are a couple of things, I think it is up to £50k limits or similar. Same for providing internationals etc. I think from memory the cap with all boosters is something like £200k higher.

 

There was a detailed post on this board recently explaining it.



#28 Pottsy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:37 PM

Just to pick up on the Saints point, have you even looked at their squad?

Wellens - international, top star of the game
Gardner - international
Turner - signed him up this year
Soliola - international
Meli - international
Hohaiha - international
Lomax - young star of the future apparently
Perry - NRL star and international
Roby - international superstar
LMS - international
Puletua - international
Manu - top class SL player
Laffranchi - international
Flanagan - decent player
Walmsley - poached from the Championship

They then have a handful of young players who were apparently going to be the future of SL, including:
Makinson
Clough
Wheeler
Jones
Percival

And a couple of players like:
Howarth
O'Brien on loan

So the makeup of their squad is a strong 15 or so, littered with internationals. The next 5 being young lads expected to be stars. Another couple of players possibly short term signings. They then have another three youth players to make up their 25.

Wire have a solid first 17 littered with internationals supplemented with a further 8 locally developed players to fill up the squad.

Whilst you also mention Leeds with the signing of Vickery, you then ignore the signing of Moon to complement their huge list of international stars.

Using leeds and Saints was a bad example.


Surely you're undermining your own argument by including people like Walmsley in your list of 'top earners' at Saints, whilst at the same time claiming people like Moz and Briers are only on £100k at Warrington.

It's common knowledge that most young players at Leeds are actually on fairly meagre contracts (Mark Calderwood wasn't even a 20-20 player when he left despite being an established first grade player). It's also well known that a lot of players at Leeds could earn far more elsewhere but stick around because of the strong club culture.

When the likes of Leeds and Saints have injuries their forced to draft in kids and journeymen. Warrington, on the other hand can lose a centre or standoff and fetch in internationals to replace them (Bridge, Evans, Ratchford) can afford to have two established top level hookers (Higham and Monaghan) vying for a starting berth, have international props like Moz and Carvell on the bench and can afford to practically discard players like McCarthy.

I'm not saying Warrington are cheating the cap but I am saying they do well to fit more top line stars in their squad than most of their rivals seem able to.

What's more annoying is when that annoying person, Stevo, claims on Backchat that Salford's wage bill next season is going to be over £3million before we've actually signed anyone!

#29 Dave T

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:53 PM

Surely you're undermining your own argument by including people like Walmsley in your list of 'top earners' at Saints, whilst at the same time claiming people like Moz and Briers are only on £100k at Warrington.

It's common knowledge that most young players at Leeds are actually on fairly meagre contracts (Mark Calderwood wasn't even a 20-20 player when he left despite being an established first grade player). It's also well known that a lot of players at Leeds could earn far more elsewhere but stick around because of the strong club culture.

When the likes of Leeds and Saints have injuries their forced to draft in kids and journeymen. Warrington, on the other hand can lose a centre or standoff and fetch in internationals to replace them (Bridge, Evans, Ratchford) can afford to have two established top level hookers (Higham and Monaghan) vying for a starting berth, have international props like Moz and Carvell on the bench and can afford to practically discard players like McCarthy.

I'm not saying Warrington are cheating the cap but I am saying they do well to fit more top line stars in their squad than most of their rivals seem able to.

What's more annoying is when that annoying person, Stevo, claims on Backchat that Salford's wage bill next season is going to be over £3million before we've actually signed anyone!

I didn't do the list as top-earners as such. Walmsley was a similar signing for Saints as Hill was for us.

 

I also didn't claim that Moz and Briers were on £100k. I used the point for the top 13 on £100k at a blended level. I suspect players are on far less than people actually think anyway, and I'd expect we have a handful of players on £100k plus, maybe the top 6-8 earners. 

I'd expect the likes of Riley, Harrison, Grix, Hill, Wood, Bridge, Cooper etc will not be anywhere near £100k, and tbh I wouldn't be suprised if the likes of Myler, Ratchford are on less than people think. Don't forget not all of Briers and Westwood's wages count on the cap.

 

You are happy to believe that Leeds pay under the going rate, but won't believe the same about Warrington?

 

If you were offered £100k at Castleford (no disrespect) or £85k at Warrington, where would you go?



#30 Dave T

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:59 PM

Surely you're undermining your own argument by including people like Walmsley in your list of 'top earners' at Saints, whilst at the same time claiming people like Moz and Briers are only on £100k at Warrington.

It's common knowledge that most young players at Leeds are actually on fairly meagre contracts (Mark Calderwood wasn't even a 20-20 player when he left despite being an established first grade player). It's also well known that a lot of players at Leeds could earn far more elsewhere but stick around because of the strong club culture.

When the likes of Leeds and Saints have injuries their forced to draft in kids and journeymen. Warrington, on the other hand can lose a centre or standoff and fetch in internationals to replace them (Bridge, Evans, Ratchford) can afford to have two established top level hookers (Higham and Monaghan) vying for a starting berth, have international props like Moz and Carvell on the bench and can afford to practically discard players like McCarthy.

I'm not saying Warrington are cheating the cap but I am saying they do well to fit more top line stars in their squad than most of their rivals seem able to.

What's more annoying is when that annoying person, Stevo, claims on Backchat that Salford's wage bill next season is going to be over £3million before we've actually signed anyone!

To address the two examples of stacking players:

 

Centres - we have Bridge and Atkins as our 3 and 4. Bridge has struggled with injuries, so Ratchford has come in at 3. Evans shouldn't make any kind of list when you are talking about big name players, and we never signed Ratchford as a centre, he is doing a job there, he is a utility.

 

Basically we haven't stacked any position, we signed a utility (Ratchford) as we knew we had an ageing squad with some injury problems, and he has covered for Hodgson, Bridge and Briers. It's not like we went out and signed an international centre to sit in the stands in case we needed him, like happened at Wigan in the 80/90's.

 

As for hooker, Higham is a journeyman who has been given a new lease of life at Warrington. Hardly like we have Roby and Lunt on our books.



#31 Pottsy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:13 PM

Nobody's saying you're 'cheating the cap.' Only someone with inside knowledge could say that with any degree of certainly.

We have to assume that you're managing your resources effectively; I just hope the same assumption is applied when Salford eventually assemble a competitive squad.

#32 archibald

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:21 PM

Not as knackered as the bloke 'accounting' for Wire's salary cap!

 

 

Nobody's saying you're 'cheating the cap.' Only someone with inside knowledge could say that with any degree of certainly.

We have to assume that you're managing your resources effectively; I just hope the same assumption is applied when Salford eventually assemble a competitive squad.

Then what were you saying?

 

Just a quick question, how much is Morley going to being paid by Salford next season?



#33 Dave T

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:26 PM

Nobody's saying you're 'cheating the cap.' Only someone with inside knowledge could say that with any degree of certainly.

We have to assume that you're managing your resources effectively; I just hope the same assumption is applied when Salford eventually assemble a competitive squad.

You've insinuated it on a few threads, not just this one.

 

If you go out and sign 5 or 6 major names then you will always get some people asking questions, some people are just jealous and will hate to see the emergence of a club like Salford, just like we have seen that at Warrington. Some people don't like it.



#34 Pottsy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:46 PM

I'm actually quite comfortable with clubs circumventing the cap if they can afford to. It's not like the cap is really there to level things out.

The main effective use of the cap is to enable clubs to have a bit more leverage in contract negotiations, thus preventing unaffordable wage inflation ("we'd love to pay you more but we're up to our cap limit.....")

What annoys me is people like Stevo (and more than a few on here) slating Salford before we've even signed anyone of note.

#35 Leeds Wire

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:52 PM

Pottsy - First you stated this:


"It's common knowledge that most young players at Leeds are actually on fairly meagre contracts"


And then you aimed this at Dave:


"Only someone with inside knowledge could say that with any degree of certainty"


Yet you are the one talking about "undermining your own argument".


Hmmmmm....

Edited by Leeds Wire, 08 July 2013 - 09:07 PM.


#36 XIII

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:55 PM

 
If you were offered £100k at Castleford (no disrespect) or £85k at Warrington, where would you go?


I have been saying for some time that this is the flaw in the cap been used in the argument to Crete an even competition. It doesn't. If you want an even comp, the lesser lights such as Salford need to be able to over spend to attract the better players.

#37 Pottsy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:07 PM

Pottsy - First you stated this:


"It's common knowledge that most young players at Leeds are actually on fairly meagre contracts"


And then you aimed this at Dave:


"Only someone with inside knowledge could say that with any degree of certainly"


Yet you are the one talking about "undermining your own argument".


Hmmmmm....

Not really, because I have first hand info regarding Leeds.

Perhaps Dave T has the same level of info at Warrington. Perhaps not.

I don't, so I can only speculate.

The initial quip was just that: a quip. I didn't anticipate such a massive bite from Dave T. Perhaps he does have inside knowledge of Warrington's cap after all.

Edited by Pottsy, 08 July 2013 - 09:10 PM.


#38 Leeds Wire

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:11 PM

Not really, because I have first hand info regarding Leeds.
Perhaps Dave T has the same level of info at Warrington. Perhaps not.
I don't, so I can only speculate.


Give it up mate, seriously. You now admit that you are purely speculating.

As for "first hand info" about Leeds players' salaries, I doubt it somehow.

#39 Pottsy

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:18 PM

Give it up mate, seriously. You now admit that you are purely speculating.

As for "first hand info" about Leeds players' salaries, I doubt it somehow.


I'm not admitting anything. I didn't claim inside knowledge if Warrington in the first place.

#40 Just Browny

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:20 PM

Give it up mate, seriously. You now admit that you are purely speculating.

As for "first hand info" about Leeds players' salaries, I doubt it somehow.


I have the same 'first hand info': Sinfield said it in a post-Grand Final interview once. Then one of the Leeds fans on here (TWIG?) repeated it. Cast-iron that.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.





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