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London Cup Final


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#21 London Drifter

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:08 PM

Bbfaz - you only managed 4 games and a couple of cup games. You used 60 players in those games? Why do you think that they weren't available to play more games?

#22 Number 16

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:38 PM

Bbfaz - you only managed 4 games and a couple of cup games. You used 60 players in those games? Why do you think that they weren't available to play more games?

 

To be fair, in the few weeks that I was around it was the opposition that pulled out.


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#23 Pottsy

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:35 PM

I can't think of one single reason why anybody would object to you resurrecting the famous South London Storm name, colours etc in Croydon. Really hope you pull it off, Graeme.

#24 Number 16

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 12:02 PM

Number 16 if my memory serves me correctly didn't storm used to be called South London Saints? Might be a good time to bring back the name? Or even South London Hurricanes to link into the juniors?

With all these London clubs popping up maybe it's time for a regional London comp (under the premier one). Bears, Newham, Stains, Chargers A, Hammersmith A, B&D, Weald A, new South London, even Southend? Would be a nice competition with regular fixtures.

I wish you all the best with the new club, although I can see it being tough to get the juniors onboard - in my experience it was always hard getting them (players) to cross from youth to open age.

I guess time will tell.

Yeah, the club was nicknamed Saints for the first couple of seasons, it was never too popular a name though!

 

As Pottsy says, the name South London Storm has real history to it, and for a decade it was a strong local sporting brand in the area. It should come back so hopefully sense will prevail and the new incarnation will be permitted to use Storm (but tbh, is permission needed?). I, too, can't see how anyone could object to it!

 

And yes, I know as well as anyone how difficult it is to get juniors progressing through to OA, but at least with a club in the Borough of Croydon at least youngsters have the opportunity to do so. Without a club we risk losing them to the sport forever.

 

As regards a new regional London competition, yes, that's got to be the way to go. Five/six sides with a scheduled 8/10 fixtures over three or four months has got to be an improvement on the current Entry level league arrangements. Build in slots for Cup/Shield and spare weekends to play occasional/new teams could work.


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#25 London Drifter

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:07 PM

Do you really think that having a club in the borough will make these kids keep playing rugby league? The South London Acadamy side has folded this year and from all reports they didn't really want to play much seniors last year. Thinking back over the last 10 years I can only think of a dozen storm juniors who went on to play for storm seniors on a regular basis.

If there is so much history and passion for Storm, why did it get to the situation it was in? Surely it is better to start a fresh and launch a new club - names and colours mean nothing. It is the heart and sole of a club that is its true identity.

The Storm club is now part of chargers just like the Sharks. It would be weird if Balmain Tigers started playing again while West Tigers still existed.

I think the move back to Frant road is a great idea and will be a great link back into a strong union club so wouldn't Stretham & Croydon xxxxx be better? .... I don't know why Storm moved in the first place.

#26 Pottsy

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:27 PM

I guess it'd be a little bit like when Gateshead Thunder and Hull Sharks merged to form Hull FC.

It's brilliant that the remnants of the two old clubs have been able to form something new and vibrant in Chiswick/Clapham Common but, equally, I can't imagine why anyone would object to 'Stormlord' resurecting SLS 2.0 back at Frant Road as long as no attempt was made to destabilise the new club.

#27 Pottsy

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:33 PM

The Storm club is now part of chargers just like the Sharks. It would be weird if Balmain Tigers started playing again while West Tigers still existed.


Balmain still play in the NSWRL.

#28 bbfaz

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 04:57 PM

Bbfaz - you only managed 4 games and a couple of cup games. You used 60 players in those games? Why do you think that they weren't available to play more games?

 

 

We had eight run outs in the end; four league, two cup, the 9’s and an intra-squad due to a late cancellation.  We had a 10 game regular season scheduled at the start of the year and had our opponents not dipped, we would have played eight of those fixtures.  Two weeks, we just didn’t have numbers due to injuries and our opponents didn’t have numbers either so it was a mutual cancellation. 

 

Looking at the numbers, half of the guys who missed games were unavoidable; injuries, family issues, work issues or money trouble.  For instance, we lost a high-quality back because he signed for an RFU Championship club for next season!  About a sixth were just guys who played because they were curious or to fill in and almost all of them never came back to training.  Another sixth joined us later in the season.  The squad listing at the end of the season was genuinely very different to how it looked at the start.

 

If you ask our coach, what killed us was inconsistent fixtures due to pull-outs.  Numbers were high until we started losing a week or a fortnight.  He wants to be in a fully-fixtured league, which brings me on to…

 

 

With all these London clubs popping up maybe it's time for a regional London comp (under the premier one). Bears, Newham, Stains, Chargers A, Hammersmith A, B&D, Weald A, new South London, even Southend? Would be a nice competition with regular fixtures.

 

Of those teams, only Newham and Chargers A put together consistent seasons.  Staines will qualify for the playoffs, Southend and Thames Ditton have been impressive considering how late they started, Weald A, Hoists A and B&D have barely played a game.  Enfield are trying to get a team going at Chingford RU, South London at Streatham-Croydon RU.  If somebody could fill that empty gap between Staines and Skolars, we might actually be onto something here.

EDIT: What I'd actually propose is conferences.  If B&D can raise a team next season, why not have them, Newham, Southend, Mudchute and Enfield in a formal conference?  Provide, say, eight fixtures per season, this leaves the ability to have inter-conference games and then a playoff system would actually make sense?
 


Edited by bbfaz, 23 July 2013 - 05:05 PM.

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#29 Pottsy

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:15 PM

Could something along the lines of the Midlands Premier (ie, a large league with a regionalised draw) not be made to work in London?

Merit leagues are a great testing ground initially but my experience has always been that the less commitment you ask from players the less they will give.

#30 bulldog_paddy

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:21 PM

We had eight run outs in the end; four league, two cup, the 9’s and an intra-squad due to a late cancellation. We had a 10 game regular season scheduled at the start of the year and had our opponents not dipped, we would have played eight of those fixtures. Two weeks, we just didn’t have numbers due to injuries and our opponents didn’t have numbers either so it was a mutual cancellation.

Looking at the numbers, half of the guys who missed games were unavoidable; injuries, family issues, work issues or money trouble. For instance, we lost a high-quality back because he signed for an RFU Championship club for next season! About a sixth were just guys who played because they were curious or to fill in and almost all of them never came back to training. Another sixth joined us later in the season. The squad listing at the end of the season was genuinely very different to how it looked at the start.

If you ask our coach, what killed us was inconsistent fixtures due to pull-outs. Numbers were high until we started losing a week or a fortnight. He wants to be in a fully-fixtured league, which brings me on to…



Of those teams, only Newham and Chargers A put together consistent seasons. Staines will qualify for the playoffs, Southend and Thames Ditton have been impressive considering how late they started, Weald A, Hoists A and B&D have barely played a game. Enfield are trying to get a team going at Chingford RU, South London at Streatham-Croydon RU. If somebody could fill that empty gap between Staines and Skolars, we might actually be onto something here.
EDIT: What I'd actually propose is conferences. If B&D can raise a team next season, why not have them, Newham, Southend, Mudchute and Enfield in a formal conference? Provide, say, eight fixtures per season, this leaves the ability to have inter-conference games and then a playoff system would actually make sense?

What killed us this year is fairly local games ,both home and away, oppos cried off . No point naming names. Week after was Southampton away then another team cried off against us then HHH 1s away. With a few games do I think we could ve got 17 lads on a minibus for 3 hours? Probably. Reckon we could've won 1 out of 2 as well :-)
A league with no more than 90-120 mins travel time, starting in May would be ideal for many

Edited by bulldog_paddy, 23 July 2013 - 05:22 PM.


#31 bbfaz

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 11:24 AM

Of course, we're all in glass houses here.  Nobody is perfect, nobody should profess to be.  My main concern about forming a full fixture list is that of the 11 genuine Entry League teams from last year and the two I know are entering next year (Enfield and South London), eight are newly formed.  The league is very young, are we ready for fully-fixtured seasons?  Are there even really enough merit teams around anymore?


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#32 Number 16

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:07 PM

Do you really think that having a club in the borough will make these kids keep playing rugby league? The South London Acadamy side has folded this year and from all reports they didn't really want to play much seniors last year. Thinking back over the last 10 years I can only think of a dozen storm juniors who went on to play for storm seniors on a regular basis.

If there is so much history and passion for Storm, why did it get to the situation it was in? Surely it is better to start a fresh and launch a new club - names and colours mean nothing. It is the heart and sole of a club that is its true identity.

The Storm club is now part of chargers just like the Sharks. It would be weird if Balmain Tigers started playing again while West Tigers still existed.

I think the move back to Frant road is a great idea and will be a great link back into a strong union club so wouldn't Stretham & Croydon xxxxx be better? .... I don't know why Storm moved in the first place.

 

At a guess you're one of the Storm people who went to Chargers?

 

With a club in the Borough there is a possibility that some kids will keep on playing through in to OA. Without a club they'll probably be lost to the game forever. So the Academy team has folded. Sad news indeed. I wonder if the loss of the OA team played a part in their demise. I honestly don't know. I'll admit that I was often left disappointed by just how few youth players went on to the Seniors. Was it a Storm thing, or was the club no worse than anyone else?

 

I disagree that names and colours mean nothing - they help create an identity. It's not for no reason that sports clubs the world over by and large retain the same colours, logos, nicknames etc. I was heavily involved with Storm from 97 to 07 and know that we built a loyalty and passion for the club. Things went belly up after that. Ill-advised moves and wrong personnel played a part. Maybe not enough creedance was given to the factors that  had helped build the club up.  

 

Anyway, if names and colours mean nothing then I guess there'll be no objection to the new South London entity using the name Storm.


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#33 EastLondonMike

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:07 PM

South London "insert new name" making a comeback.. great news. will look forward to a game or two next year..


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#34 TackleMachine

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:16 AM

Storm died a slow death when it moved from Streatham&Croydon. S&C didn't like Storm there - that's why they increased the fees to £6k. If you think you're going to train on a better facility (that S&C will provide for less cash then that, you're deluding yourself. Or you'll have to fiddle the books a hell of a lot better than the last lad who ran storm back in the day...



#35 Pottsy

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 10:43 AM

Sounds like Graeme has reached an agreement with S&C so, whatever the 'new' club ends up being called, it's a good news story as far as I'm concerned.

Croydon Hurricanes?

#36 Number 16

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 12:00 PM

Sounds like Graeme has reached an agreement with S&C so, whatever the 'new' club ends up being called, it's a good news story as far as I'm concerned.

Croydon Hurricanes?

 

Spot on! TackleMachine's way, way out on this one.

 

For ten years Storm enjoyed an excellent relationship with our landlords, but from 2008 onwards it went increasingly pear-shaped. And it's true, S-C were happy to see the back of Storm by the end, but that was as much due due to some of the personalities involved with Storm as anything else.  


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#37 Pottsy

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 12:24 PM

I think the fact that N16 will boost S&C's bar takings will also probably sweeten the deal too.

#38 TackleMachine

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 05:12 PM

Oh, it's good that S&C are more welcoming now. Last I heard their attitude was "We're rugby union, why should we do anything to help rugby league?" Maybe that South African isn't there any more.

 

The problem with Storm post 09 was the lack of players. And arrogant juniors not stepping up to play senior footy without a Super League contract. Have you thought about how you will recruit players around there? There's always a lot of talk from the locals about how 'pumped' they are for the season to come and when it does, they don't even show. They spend more time wearing Storm stash in the gym then putting the work in on the pitch.

 

Storm had good coaches and a decent ground last season, but no players. What would you do differently starting a new club 5 min down the road from Lanfranc?

 

Have you found a coach? Important to have one that won't quit halfway through the season like the Beckenham one.



#39 Marauder

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:00 PM

Oh, it's good that S&C are more welcoming now. Last I heard their attitude was "We're rugby union, why should we do anything to help rugby league?" Maybe that South African isn't there any more.

 

The problem with Storm post 09 was the lack of players. And arrogant juniors not stepping up to play senior footy without a Super League contract. Have you thought about how you will recruit players around there? There's always a lot of talk from the locals about how 'pumped' they are for the season to come and when it does, they don't even show. They spend more time wearing Storm stash in the gym then putting the work in on the pitch.

 

Storm had good coaches and a decent ground last season, but no players. What would you do differently starting a new club 5 min down the road from Lanfranc?

 

Have you found a coach? Important to have one that won't quit halfway through the season like the Beckenham one.

These problems happen all the time in the amateur game.


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#40 Pie tries

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:43 PM

This is all great reading, keep up the good work !




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