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Will the clubs listen to Steve O'Connor?


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#1 League Express

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:56 AM

Reproduced from Talking Rugby League, Martyn Sadler's column in League Express on Monday.


Last week the RFL held its annual Council meeting at Warrington.
Today (Wednesday) the Super League clubs will meet again.
The agenda, as you might have guessed, will be the proposals to change the league structure.

Click here to view the article

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#2 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:52 AM

Excellent piece and the facts start to overtake the emotions at last.

 

So we have 6 sides that can pay the full cap....7 obviously with Salford....we should form the rest with mergers and if possible benefactor-funded expansion teams.

 

For me even an 8 team Super League wouldn't be a total disaster - certainly better than an extra 4 or 6 clubs just for the sake of them being there.

 

The Hull bid should be a joint bid.



#3 RSN

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:22 PM

Mergers won't work. You need to realise this. Who are these proposed mergers you would want in the league?

Edited by barrowraiderskid, 10 July 2013 - 12:22 PM.


#4 Father Ted

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 01:29 PM

When there are money worries the same old lazy remedy comes out. "Lower the salary cap".
Clubs have two catagories of salaries. Those governed by the SC and others that are not.
There have been amendments to the SC which have lifted the figure for some clubs but the general
£1.65m has been around for some time.
However there are those employees who's salaries are not governed by the SC, that is the non playing staff. At most clubs the salaries for those staff go up each year and the clubs appear to be able to fund that.
So how is it that the players have to have their salaries capped and the other members of staff do not.
It's time clubs dealt with their costs problems honestly and not hide behind the salary cap.

As for Steve O'Connor, he's right of course. Relegation when we last had it was a disaster. So why re-introduce it?

#5 JohnM

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

Mergers won't work? Well, no one actually knows. You could do some modelling, though. A mind experiment. Choose the most contentious...Wallie, Cass and Fev. Go back over the last 25 years. Look at trophies won in total, aggregate attendances, aggregate income, aggregate costs, losses, amounts owing to creditors from administrations, etc. then imagine one club formed from all three. Of say a total of 12500 aggregate average crows..would drop yo how many, for how long, but would grow as new fans come along...won't happen but it's worth doing some sums.

#6 Methven Hornet

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 01:49 PM

Mergers won't work? Well, no one actually knows. You could do some modelling, though. A mind experiment. Choose the most contentious...Wallie, Cass and Fev. Go back over the last 25 years. Look at trophies won in total, aggregate attendances, aggregate income, aggregate costs, losses, amounts owing to creditors from administrations, etc. then imagine one club formed from all three. Of say a total of 12500 aggregate average crows..would drop yo how many, for how long, but would grow as new fans come along...won't happen but it's worth doing some sums.

 

Wallie? As in Wallie Lewis Is Coming? That takes me back a bit!!!

Good argument, all the same.


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#7 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:25 PM

Excellent piece and the facts start to overtake the emotions at last.

So we have 6 sides that can pay the full cap....7 obviously with Salford....we should form the rest with mergers and if possible benefactor-funded expansion teams.

For me even an 8 team Super League wouldn't be a total disaster - certainly better than an extra 4 or 6 clubs just for the sake of them being there.

The Hull bid should be a joint bid.

So within one post you've decided to thread drift? Great.
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#8 JohnM

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:41 PM

Wallie? As in Wallie Lewis Is Coming? That takes me back a bit!!!

Good argument, all the same.

 

 

Sorry about that. it's fanger trible woth mi keybeard.



#9 Dave T

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:25 PM

Does anybody have any info on each club's income?

Rather than saying if a club cant generate £3.6m they cant spend to the cap, id go as far as to say they have no place being anywhere near SL.

In reality they have to generate £2.4m after central funds.

#10 a.n Other

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:36 PM

Does anybody have any info on each club's income?

Rather than saying if a club cant generate £3.6m they cant spend to the cap, id go as far as to say they have no place being anywhere near SL.

In reality they have to generate £2.4m after central funds.

Widnes and Halifax both turned over in excess of £1m whilst in the Championship prior to the last round of licences. So I agree clubs should be able to turn over what you have stated.

Edited by a.n Other, 10 July 2013 - 04:37 PM.


#11 RSN

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:06 PM

Widnes and Halifax both turned over in excess of £1m whilst in the Championship prior to the last round of licences. So I agree clubs should be able to turn over what you have stated.

Selling the Championship as a product to fans is pretty much impossible to generate the turnover. The only way you can get fans to attend is that if they have some belief you are going to get into SL. What can you say about the Championship to get fans to watch unless they love RL.

If you don't believe me, look at Widnes' Barrows and Halifax's crowds prior to the SL announcement and after it. 1 teams crowds went up whilst the others have declined ever since. SL aspirations get people through the gates.

A championship side is increasing their gates impressively at the minute, as you'd expect there is talk of them getting into SL.

Edited by barrowraiderskid, 10 July 2013 - 05:07 PM.


#12 sweaty craiq

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:40 PM

Lemmings over a cliff or Turkeys voting for Christmas, your choice.

Banks also lend on PG's and assets if I am not mistaken.

If we want to show some danglies we go to 8 clubs incl Toulouse, that provides a vibrant second tier of Widnes, Cas, Wakey, HKR, London, Bradford, Salford, Fax, Fev, Leigh, Batley and Sheffield or does that not suite Steve's plans or cut costs and increase hand outs?? Give the 6 £2m each and let the French source their own deal, leaving 600k to run a full time second tier



#13 markleeds

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:54 PM

Reducing the gap is a ridiculous idea, it should be raised ASAP and let clubs spend up to £2m.

#14 Ant

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 06:27 PM

The whole argument of "you can't sell the championship without promotion" is an utter fallacy

80% of clubs in the championship will never be contenders for promotion even if unrestricted P&R came back in

How would you sell that?

#15 Rover and out

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 06:48 PM

It's alrights saying that dropping to the championship would kill clubs because they lose their overdrafts and things but what does that say to the cc clubs that have sl ambitions? That when you're in that league you haven't got a chance of going any where so just give up. Then what? Fans leave in droves and clubs go bust?

Martyn sadler might as well just say sl should be a closed shop (unless you're an expansion team like Toulouse) and teams like Fev, fax, batley etc should just pee off because you haven't got a chance.

The game isn't big enough and hasn't got enough fans to exclude clubs. For me we need some form of p&r but with minimum standards where if you win your league and meet the standards set you get promoted, no applying and getting knocked back. Raise the cap in the cc so that the clubs that can afford to spend more can so there's not as big a jump to make if they do make sl, and introduce teams like Toulouse into the cc, give them the same chance of getting sl as everyone else. Give clubs something to fight for and would make for more intense games IMO

#16 Marauder

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:13 PM

Mergers won't work? Well, no one actually knows. You could do some modelling, though. A mind experiment. Choose the most contentious...Wallie, Cass and Fev. Go back over the last 25 years. Look at trophies won in total, aggregate attendances, aggregate income, aggregate costs, losses, amounts owing to creditors from administrations, etc. then imagine one club formed from all three. Of say a total of 12500 aggregate average crows..would drop yo how many, for how long, but would grow as new fans come along...won't happen but it's worth doing some sums.

Once these clubs have been merged and if it doesn't work, WHAT THEN.


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#17 League Express

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:20 PM

Please continue the discussion here.

 

Super League will feature 12 teams from the 2015 season after Rugby League’s elite clubs today agreed to a key change to the structure of their competition.

http://www.totalrl.c...tion-from-2015/


League Express is Britain's biggest selling Rugby League publication
On sale every Monday, in shops, on subscription and online for PC/MAC, iPad, iPhone, Android & Kindle Fire.
Follow us on Twitter @leagueexpress
Like us on Facebook - www.facebook.com/rugbyleagueexpress





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