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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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#4521 The Parksider

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:14 PM

We are told that Leigh have money to burn....

Fev if they are outside the top 2 also....

 

North Wales seem capable of raising capital?

Sheffield also seem to be improving turnover whilst keeping in profit?

 

There maybe around 6 clubs in the championship who could scrape together 10-15 full time players.....It will be the clubs with the full time backroom staff who will prosper!

 

May scrape together 10-15 full time players on a few "maybe's"?

 

Fev outside the top 2?

 

I'll just work on the realities thanks.



#4522 yipyee

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:21 PM

May scrape together 10-15 full time players on a few "maybe's"?

 

Fev outside the top 2?

 

I'll just work on the realities thanks.

 

1. Why would it be maybes?

2. I am saying if fev finish outside the top 2 they would still spend full cap

3. I listed some realities for 8 clubs and said that 6 would manage full cap based on realities stated!

 

Speaking of realities..... if you are working on realities how do you get fax to be in the top 2???

Just sayin B)



#4523 Griff

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:41 PM

 

Fev outside the top 2?

 

I'll just work on the realities thanks.

 

They were third last year, Parky.


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#4524 GIANTSTRIDES

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:33 PM

Thank you for replying.

 

I know that the SKY contract is just to stick a load of RL on telly to sell adverts in between the action. But does that mean it doesn't matter that many of clubs don't have much of a physical audience??

 

Physical interest by people in RL means they start to get interested in playing and forming Junior clubs. Why do Wigan have such a strong junior scene if not for the fact they've had 14,000 people interested in the club for what 30 years?? Why is junior RL growing strongly in Leeds? Is it baecause they've had big crowds for 25 years? Does it help to get kids playing and dads organising if the local SL club are a big attractive one?

 

You say the future is getting to the  levels of the NRL/Aussies. Why are they strong?? Is it because SKY pay £Millions for their clubs to play in half empty stadia?? Or is it because the game has a much bigger standing amongst the public themselves who in turn pay to watch, and organise their kids to play.

 

Physical interest by people in RL means they start to get interested in playing and forming Junior clubs. Why do Wigan have such a strong junior scene if not for the fact they've had 14,000 people interested in the club for what 30 years?? Why is junior RL growing strongly in Leeds? Is it baecause they've had big crowds for 25 years? Does it help to get kids playing and dads organising if the local SL club are a big attractive one?

 

Leeds don't struggle, Caddick puts little in. Saints and Wigan struggle no more and their chairmen are keen to not be cash cows. Same at Hull, Pearson aims for a break even business. You discount the new TV deal and the TV money taken off Bradford - why would they now struggle??

 

My case is RL needs investment into the biggest clubs to attract maximum direct physical interest in the game to them, to in turn grow the local infrastructure of our game. Fartown play Wigan tomorrow, between them they mopped up the three trophies. Leeds and Salford will be busting a gut to change that.

 

You tell me  honestly that there'd be no difference difference between an SL of 12 Wigans/Leeds type clubs against an SL of 12 Fartown/salford type clubs????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know that the SKY contract is just to stick a load of RL on telly to sell adverts in between the action. But does that mean it doesn't matter that many of clubs don't have much of a physical audience??

 

__________________________________________________________________________________

 

Bit flippant that in view of what it's costing them, Especially as you are celibrating the fact that it's their money that is going to save the Bulls.

 

 

Physical interest by people in RL means they start to get interested in playing and forming Junior clubs. Why do Wigan have such a strong junior scene if not for the fact they've had 14,000 people interested in the club for what 30 years?? Why is junior RL growing strongly in Leeds? Is it baecause they've had big crowds for 25 years? Does it help to get kids playing and dads organising if the local SL club are a big attractive one?

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I have already agreed with you several times about the desirabillity of crowds, Wigan are indeed a great club to use as the benchmark, as are Leeds, and i did mention that Saints ,Wolves, Dragons, and Hull are getting to that standard, Wigan particularly turn out a fair surplus of players, The Giants have benefitted from that, I see nothing wrong with that, these players have to play somewhere.

 

All that said , for one good game between the top clubs on a Friday night on TV i would guess at a figure of around 4 times what the whole rest of the round will attract through the gates, And don't interpret that as being what i want, It's what is happening. If you can't see who's funding the game  It's because you choose to pretend otherwise.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

I never said any club will struggle without a Money man, I said Bradford, and though It's just my opinion  It's at least based on something, Like what it's going to cost to run Odsal ect,

 

I thought the money taken from Bradford, ( which i didn't agree with ) was the result of them getting into their trouble rather than being the cause of it.

 

____________________________________________________________________________________

 

My case is RL needs investment into the biggest clubs to attract maximum direct physical interest in the game to them, to in turn grow the local infrastructure of our game. Fartown play Wigan tomorrow, between them they mopped up the three trophies. Leeds and Salford will be busting a gut to change that.

 

 

I agree (yet again ), but until we reach this utopian position, What do you suggest we do ? Go with what we have, which is what will happen, ( happening ) or do we opt for some hairy fairy notion of telling all the money men ( below the Wolves Saints line ) to clear off unless they are prepared to put their money in Bradford or Wakey. How that would help the game escapes me. It's not generally a good thing to turn investors down because they don't want to put their money in your chosen places, I thought you said something about taking reality pills.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

You tell me honestly that there'd be no difference difference between an SL of 12 Wigans/Leeds type clubs against an SL of 12 Fartown/salford type clubs????

 

 

What is the point of posing a question like that, We have never had a SL full of teams like Wigan and Leeds etc, Or Fartown and Salford, and It's unlikely we ever shall have. It would be wonderful, but if it ever happens it will because money is going into the clubs IMO. Why it's got so far up your nose that the Dr chose Salford before Bradford i don't know.

 

You now seem to be on the dream that you were condemning some fans for at the start of this thread, People flocking in to grounds in such numbers that we will be able to get rid of these money men who have ruined clubs like Bradford and Wakey.

 

It may not fit your dream ( or mine ) but Sky is the major money power in League now , Did you not notice the frenzy that erupted, when the announcement of the new deal came out. People queuing up to say how it should be divided up. Take another reality pill.

 

And don't worry about Bradford they will be fine unless they go down the same route again. I don't think that will happen, But you never know the Bulls fans were raised on success, The pressure to win things may become too great to bear, hopefully the new team have learned, and who knows the next Dr may be waiting to strike, at Bradford this time.


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#4525 Rover and out

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:41 PM

They were third last year, Parky.


I believe he means league table position where they've finished first for the last 3 year as I presume that is how the funding will be worked out. I expect you knew that tho 😏

#4526 Griff

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:30 PM

I believe he means league table position where they've finished first for the last 3 year as I presume that is how the funding will be worked out. I expect you knew that tho

 

Yet to be approved, apparently.  Couple of meetings to go yet. ;)


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#4527 gingerjon

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:47 PM

I believe he means league table position where they've finished first for the last 3 year as I presume that is how the funding will be worked out. I expect you knew that tho

 

I'd expect the champion share to go to the champions.

 

We're all about jeopardy now.  That's how it should be.


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#4528 Keith T

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:55 PM

I'd expect the champion share to go to the champions.

 

We're all about jeopardy now.  That's how it should be.

 

But don't the Champions get a £100,000 for winning the GF already?


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#4529 Griff

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:17 PM

But don't the Champions get a £100,000 for winning the GF already?

 

Not like £550,000 though, is it ?

 

And, anyway, couple of meetings to go yet ..... who knows what might happen ?


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#4530 gingerjon

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:50 PM

But don't the Champions get a £100,000 for winning the GF already?

 

I think we can all agree that the team that gets through the most jeopardy deserves the big payments.


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#4531 The Parksider

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 07:02 AM

Bit flippant that in view of what it's costing them, Especially as you are celibrating the fact that it's SKY money that is going to save the Bulls.

 

Thanks for the reply, will reply later. Good luck BTW for tonight.

 

I don't know about SKY money ultimately saving the Bulls. You ignore:-

 

1. Having a big fanbase is the major saviour

 

2. It was a withdrawal of the SKY money that stuffed them. You very conveniently forget the SL clubs kept £1,200,000 of Bradfords SKY share for themselves. How would Fartown do if they had that taken off them? I suppose Davey would resign on principle maybe or just write a cheque?

 

I'll just leave you with those facts you've twisted into the idea Bradford haven't the financial power to make a comeback.


Edited by The Parksider, 07 February 2014 - 07:04 AM.


#4532 Wanderer

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 07:51 AM


 

2. It was a withdrawal of the SKY money that stuffed them. You very conveniently forget the SL clubs kept £1,200,000 of Bradfords SKY share for themselves. How would Fartown do if they had that taken off them? I suppose Davey would resign on principle maybe or just write a cheque?

 

 

 

I thought they received an advance of sky moneys to help them through financial difficulties and it was this that was subsequently with-held. So they got the same money as every one else but just at different times I am remembering incorrectly?



#4533 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 09:02 AM

I have to agree with gingerjon. Just because we change the structure in 2015 doesn't mean that we must go for the league placings in 2014.

On the one hand, we're telling the fans that the Grand Final is all-important. On the other hand, money says it isn't.

It's traditional RL management - we can't make up our minds.

I'd have thought they'd start a completely new system as they mean to go on Griff ie league placings. That's entirely what the new structure is based upon.

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 07 February 2014 - 09:09 AM.

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#4534 Griff

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 09:17 AM

I'd have thought they'd start a completely new system as they mean to go on Griff ie league placings. That's entirely what the new structure is based upon.

 

Well, we'll see, Terry.  Apparently league positions is favourite but it's not been ratified.

 

But that's a strange thought - we change part of our system this year and another part next year.


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#4535 sweaty craiq

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:39 AM

Just received this on email from Leigh.

Following a meeting between the RFL and the championship clubs yesterday Thursday 6th February 2014 at the Big Fella's Stadium Featherstone, Leigh Centurions have announced their complete support of the RFL and its new structures that were presented to them.

Football Director Derek Beaumont who represented the club at the meeting with club director Allan Rowley commented;

“I would like to congratulate Nigel Wood and his team for all their hard work to bring this format to life. They have given the game a heartbeat and an opportunity to all to become masters of their own destinies. The composed and assured manner in which the RFL have dealt with this process is testament to their beliefs and ambition for our great game. They have come into some very harsh criticism in the public domain and I am sure this did not help them negotiate what is a ground breaking broadcasting deal with SKY TV”

“I would also like to thank Mark Campbell and his team at Featherstone for their hospitality and the professional manner in which they staged the meeting. Visiting the Big Fella’s Stadium brought back memories of my first stint in rugby league ten years ago when we were banging on Super League's door from Hilton Park. The new structures provide more opportunities to championship clubs who are not as fortunate as us to have the world class facilities afforded to us by our partners Leigh Sports Village. The older grounds possess character and it is good that they won’t hinder ambitious clubs from grasping the nettle”

“It was talk of the new structure that re-engaged me personally with rugby league as there was the vision of a clear pathway to achieve over time in a controlled measured manner as any business would expect to grow. I sincerely hope that the innovative structure re-engages many more business men, sponsors and spectators in their droves to put the great game of rugby league up at the top of the sporting tree. It is inspiring and comforting to know that in the RFL we have a leader that has courage of its convictions to make changes and to adapt to modern eras for the greater good of the game and I sincerely hope they are rewarded for that with some explosive meaningful games across all facets of the competition”

“At Leigh Centurions we are prepared for that challenge and ready to take advantage of the opportunity created for us. We have a home grown ex international player as our coach who is young and vibrant and was named championship coach of the year in 2012. Together and with the rest of our coaching team we have assembled a squad with a mix of experience and youth that we believe will have the power and pace to deliver our goals. We have a board of management that would be envied by any business in or outside of the sporting circles and one that would cost seven figures to employ. We have the stage at LSV that is the envy of the championship and what I consider the best playing surface in rugby league as a whole and we are extremely proud of our partnership with the Leigh Sports Village which continues to grow from strength to strength”

“These are extremely exciting times for Leigh Centurions, and the game as a whole, and we really are now ready to kick on to take our opportunity afforded by the RFL with both hands”

Leigh Centurions start their campaign hosting Batley Bulldogs at 3pm Sunday 16th February 2014 at the Leigh Sports Village and are hoping to see a large vociferous crowd cheering them on. 



#4536 Ponterover

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:44 PM

Statement on Featherstone's Website

 

http://www.featherst...le.php?id=29441

 

Headlines
< Back Rovers back new TV deal and structures

Friday 7th February 2014

Story in brief:
Craig Poskitt said "As a club we fully support the new structures put in place and congratulate the RFL Executive..."

Featherstone Rovers yesterday were delighted to host the latest Championship meeting at the Big Fellas Stadium. The RFL represented by Nigel Wood, Ralph Rimmer and Blake Solly presented information to all Championship clubs outlining the new structures to be in place in 2015".
  
Featherstone Rovers Chief Executive Craig Poskitt said "As a club we fully support the new structures put in place and congratulate the RFL Executive on securing a record, long term TV deal with Sky that will bring stability to the sport. All at Featherstone are excited by recent developments and incentivised by the new structures being put in place. We are under no illusions that there is a lot of hard work ahead to get where we want to be.
 
"I know as a club we can see the bigger picture and are particularly excited about the commercial opportunities that promotion and relegation can represent."
 
On hosting the meeting Craig added "We have excellent facilities at the Big Fellas Stadium and it is an asset that currently is underutilised. It was a good learning experience too for our Commercial Manager Paul Taylor who observed the meeting. It also provided us with an opportunity to showcase the redevelopment of the Railway End of the stadium and our new Centre of Excellence."
 
Chief Executive of the RFL Nigel Wood said "We would like to thank Featherstone Rovers for their warm hospitality. It was particularly interesting to see the ground redevelopments taking place which is a unique and inspiring project. I was also impressed with the new Centre of Excellence and was given an informative tour by Chairman Mark Campbell. It is good to see a forward thinking club plan for the future in a sustainable fashion."



#4537 The Parksider

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 02:10 PM

We have never had a SL full of teams like Wigan and Leeds etc, Or Fartown and Salford, and It's unlikely we ever shall have. It would be wonderful, but if it ever happens it will because money is going into the clubs IMO. Why it's got so far up your nose that the Dr chose Salford before Bradford i don't know.

 

You now seem to be on the dream that you were condemning some fans for at the start of this thread, People flocking in to grounds in such numbers that we will be able to get rid of these money men who have ruined clubs like Bradford and Wakey.

 

It may not fit your dream ( or mine ) but Sky is the major money power in League now , Did you not notice the frenzy that erupted, when the announcement of the new deal came out. People queuing up to say how it should be divided up. Take another reality pill.

 

 

You don't understand my point whether deliberately or conveniently I don't know.

 

There is a difference between clubs with high numbers of actual fans and clubs with low numbers of fans.

 

That difference is worth a lot of money and it's worth a lot of players.

 

Bradford have proved they can pull 15,000 and produce juniors who become top players. Salford have proved they can't pull the crowds or develop top local players.

 

So if you have Salford in Superleague and not Bradford, so interest in watching and playing wanes in Bradford  as it does/has in the Championship areas, then you lose the interest of thousands of fans and local junior players.

 

All your saying is as long as SKY and a rich man work in unison to fund a club it would not matter if nobody came to watch and nobody played the game locally. After all you can ship in a load of antipodeans to make up the team.

 

But where you fall down is you ignore that the game is richer for SKY, then it is richer for paying fans, and it is richer again for the development of local players into professionals.

 

Sure, in recent years clubs lacked adequate resources to be Super clubs and the paltry TV money didn't make up the shortfall. That we have £200,000,000 now means we can find 12 clubs best suited to use that money to develop their crowds and develop players for the game.

 

12 clubs sharing £200M over 5 years = £3.3Million a season a club. Set up right a professional made for TV league would not need these mega rich men you somehow think are investing in the game. They aren't investing at all. They are making up losses, and where they elbow out from SL bigger clubs they would be creating losses.


Edited by The Parksider, 07 February 2014 - 02:13 PM.


#4538 GIANTSTRIDES

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:31 PM

Thanks for the reply, will reply later. Good luck BTW for tonight.

 

I don't know about SKY money ultimately saving the Bulls. You ignore:-

 

1. Having a big fanbase is the major saviour

 

2. It was a withdrawal of the SKY money that stuffed them. You very conveniently forget the SL clubs kept £1,200,000 of Bradfords SKY share for themselves. How would Fartown do if they had that taken off them? I suppose Davey would resign on principle maybe or just write a cheque?

 

I'll just leave you with those facts you've twisted into the idea Bradford haven't the financial power to make a comeback.

 Fair enough then , I must have it wrong but i thought the reason for the holding back of money was the penalty for the crime ( so to speak ) rather than the other way round. This being the case why was the money held back?.  Not that i agree with it at all., but there must have been a reason.

 

1 Disappeared faster than a rat up a drainpipe, As opposed to Wigan , Who hit a bad patch and increased their fan numbers,. Still bigger than the Giants true , but then the Giants are doing OK without 15.000 fans. I accept you find it unpalatable that a club with less fans, is at the moment much better, but to be fair you keep talking about reality,

 

If i have twisted any facts , then i apologise, But it seems to me that at the moment the facts are that Bradford are struggling to get the financial power to survive , let alone make a comeback.

 

2 How would Fartown do. I wouldn't swear to it but IIR correctly Fartowns first ever season in SL was on condition they got no Sky money at all, so maybe that answers your question.

 

 

For what It's worth i think Bradford are a club well worth keeping alive , They have been as good as anyone to watch when they were at the top, Not just me that feels that way, The RFL have helped them, SLE were prepared to buy them, so they will survive, and I'll be glad,  But until Fartown get to the state of Hunslet and others ,i shall watch them.

 I don't care where they get the Money from, They are better being funded by a rich man and being competitive that being like Hunslet, and when/ If, they go down the pan, If i am still here i will accept it with good grace and be glad of the 60 years i have had. As you appear to have done with your club.

 

Regarding Fans, I don't know what else i can tell you. I have repeated so many times about the desirability of Fans, But you still keep trying to paint this picture that i think they are unnecessary, That is just not true, i would love to have crowds like some clubs have, and i have said that often enough, I just don't believe that they are (the main savior of the game).

 

There are many clubs struggling along with very few fans, but they are still there, There are some SL clubs that are struggling along with not enough fans,(Probably the reason some of them voted for the new format ), But they are still there. Now take away the Sky money for a couple of years , and see what level the game is at then.  Back where it was when Sky came along, A one team league, Or at best four.

 

That's it Parky , that's how it is, You and me may not find it ideal , But it's happening, and your dreams about Bradford, and mine about Fartown won't be worth diddly squat without Sky,

 

If Leeds went over to the dark side tomorrow ( God forbid ) and Bradford went bust, Super league would toddle on best it could without them, If Sky folded tomorrow, there would be NO Super league, If you can't see that ,well so be it.


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#4539 Steve May

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:41 PM

12 clubs sharing £200M over 5 years = £3.3Million a season a club. Set up right a professional made for TV league would not need these mega rich men you somehow think are investing in the game. They aren't investing at all. They are making up losses, and where they elbow out from SL bigger clubs they would be creating losses.

 

Who are the bigger clubs being elbowed out?

 

If, say, Huddersfield were to leave the game then which bigger clubs would be breathing a sigh of relief?   Leeds?  Bradford?  Halifax?  Batley?


That's me.  I'm done.


#4540 Steve May

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:45 PM


2 How would Fartown do. I wouldn't swear to it but IIR correctly Fartowns first ever season in SL was on condition they got no Sky money at all, so maybe that answers your question.

 

 

Pretty sure you're right.

 

At various times, a number of clubs have had the TV money withheld for a number of, usually daft, reasons. 


That's me.  I'm done.





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