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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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#741 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:34 PM

Be strong brother be strong


Absolutely! Stick together brothers....I can see it now....The Chucklevision Super League

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 15 July 2013 - 12:40 AM.

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#742 JohnM

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:21 AM

With Fev in the leading role.

#743 Dave T

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:18 AM

I have no problem with saying its conjecture on my part, and I am open to be refuted on my assertions.

I only see a few individuals from a few small clubs complaining, I don't see a mass groundswell of opinion from a lot of clubs clamoring for change.

I may be right or wrong, but I will be more than happy to bow to anyone that shows me that the majority of RL fans want the changes proposed.

I am willing to state that i have opinions that are there to be challenged but when I post facts I would like them to be challenged by facts and not opinions.

fair enough.

Previously I would have agreed that this was a small vocal minority, but as time has passed this view seems to have become more and more the norm.
I found myself having to explain and justify licensing and lack of p&r regularly to plenty of Wire fans, Saints fans, Leeds fans. I know no fans of lower league clubs in real life so it has all been SL fans. This has challenged my way of thinking about this.

#744 gingerjon

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:24 AM

It's going to be the mid-season 8x3 isn't it?

 

The classic, "Well it's not as bad as the chasm of a drop" to the SL 12 and, "Well, you've got a chance this way..." to the other 12.

 

And an afterthought about what we do about clubs 25 and lower ...


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#745 Griff

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:45 AM

Indeed - and, bearing in mind that there could be seven clubs relegated next year, would you be better getting relegated in 2013, leaving you a better chance of making 2015 in Division Two by winning Division Three in 2014 than by avoiding relegation from Division Two ?
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#746 Dave T

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:49 AM

It's going to be the mid-season 8x3 isn't it?

The classic, "Well it's not as bad as the chasm of a drop" to the SL 12 and, "Well, you've got a chance this way..." to the other 12.

And an afterthought about what we do about clubs 25 and lower ...

they should know their place and appreciate it.

#747 nadera78

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:11 AM

It's going to be the mid-season 8x3 isn't it?

 

The classic, "Well it's not as bad as the chasm of a drop" to the SL 12 and, "Well, you've got a chance this way..." to the other 12.

 

And an afterthought about what we do about clubs 25 and lower ...

Whatever they go for I give it 2 years before the conversation starts up again. 2015 start date so by the autumn internationals of 2016 we'll be tearing this up and starting again.

 

And this time it might even lead to a fully franchised league rather than a licenced one. So an actual closed shop, as opposed to an imagined one.


Edited by nadera78, 15 July 2013 - 08:12 AM.

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#748 Dave T

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:25 AM

Whatever they go for I give it 2 years before the conversation starts up again. 2015 start date so by the autumn internationals of 2016 we'll be tearing this up and starting again.

 

And this time it might even lead to a fully franchised league rather than a licenced one. So an actual closed shop, as opposed to an imagined one.

I'm not so sure. P&R was in there for quite a while, and if we are honest the scrapping of it was hardly something that was clamoured for.

Licensing and scrapping of annual P&R was brought in due to a business idea, which many fans aren't that bothered about ultimately, rightly or wrongly, so whilst the debate will probably rumble on for ever, there have been out and out campaigns for the return of annual P&R where as I don;t think anybody feels that strongly that licensing is 100% the right solution and would campaign for it.

 

Let's be honest, even on here there are all sorts of different ideas from a relatively small group of RL fans:

 

10 div SL

2 x 10 divs, then 6/6/8

12 team SL with P&R

12 team SL with Licensing

2 x 12 team SL with 8/8/8

14 team SL with licensing

14 team SL with P&R

Toulouse in

Toulouse out

Additional funds for expansion teams.

 

This suggests to me that there is no clear right and wrong answer.



#749 JohnM

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:53 AM

but the game is being played with other peoples hard earned money, be they fans, sponsors, benefactors, Sky viewers or "investors". I trust that there will be a fully worked out justification and model for whatever scheme is arrived at. 



#750 Dave T

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:58 AM

but the game is being played with other peoples hard earned money, be they fans, sponsors, benefactors, Sky viewers or "investors". I trust that there will be a fully worked out justification and model for whatever scheme is arrived at. 

Because it is all forecasted let's be honest, you can make a business case for all of the scenarios.

 

From a financial point of view, I suspect there is little between most of the options, it is the leap of faith (the crowds will double) or the cynicism (the crowds will half) that people need to make a call one.



#751 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 10:51 AM

At last, after all this time - I am finally getting some entertainment out of Super Greed! Shame its nothing to do with what's going on on the pitch!



#752 The Parksider

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

League express indicates today that the £2,400,000 freed up by the two clubs leaving SL is likely to be allocated by giving the top four clubs in the Championship/Superleague 2 £500,000 a year each.

 

Assuming todays league standings were the position in a couple of years time Salford, and London along with Sheffield and Featherstone would be getting this money.

 

This is just a "for instance" but unless I've read it wrong it may well be the case that Superleague 2 will be "loaded" to ensure four clubs battling for Superleague places have a better chance than perhaps they do now.

 

On current league placings Fax, Leigh, Batley, Haven Dewsbury, Workington, Keighley and Donny would just be making up the numbers??



#753 Griff

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:32 AM

League express indicates today that the £2,400,000 freed up by the two clubs leaving SL is likely to be allocated by giving the top four clubs in the Championship/Superleague 2 £500,000 a year each.
 
Assuming todays league standings were the position in a couple of years time Salford, and London along with Sheffield and Featherstone would be getting this money.
 
This is just a "for instance" but unless I've read it wrong it may well be the case that Superleague 2 will be "loaded" to ensure four clubs battling for Superleague places have a better chance than perhaps they do now.
 
On current league placings Fax, Leigh, Batley, Haven Dewsbury, Workington, Keighley and Donny would just be making up the numbers??


Accepting that it's just a "for instance" - is it the top four from last season or the current season ?

If it's the top four from last season, then there'll be an imbalance in "$uperleague 2" and last year's top four are likely to be this year's top four.

If it's this year's top four, then clubs will budget for making the top four to get the funding. If there's more than four clubs doing that, one or more of them will be disappointed - possibly catastrophically so.

There's no real answer to this unless $uperleague 1 and $uperleague 2 funding are closer together.

£2.4m divided by four is £500k ........ hmmmmmm.

Edited by Griff, 15 July 2013 - 11:33 AM.

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#754 keighley

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:34 AM

League express indicates today that the £2,400,000 freed up by the two clubs leaving SL is likely to be allocated by giving the top four clubs in the Championship/Superleague 2 £500,000 a year each.

 

Assuming todays league standings were the position in a couple of years time Salford, and London along with Sheffield and Featherstone would be getting this money.

 

This is just a "for instance" but unless I've read it wrong it may well be the case that Superleague 2 will be "loaded" to ensure four clubs battling for Superleague places have a better chance than perhaps they do now.

 

On current league placings Fax, Leigh, Batley, Haven Dewsbury, Workington, Keighley and Donny would just be making up the numbers??

 

The extra money will more likely be redistributed to the remaining 12 surviving, greedy, inward looking SL teams. Their desire to feather their own nests and throw out all the cuckoos knows no bounds.



#755 Red Willow

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:37 AM

The best thing the RFL could do would be to NOT distribute the extra 2 shares of SKY money to the 12 but use it wisely for development and promotion of the game.

 

Most sports in the UK rely on Internaltions to fund the grass roots sport we don't have that yet.

 

I'd like the sport to undergo a period of stability including the constant tinkering with rules, balls etc.



#756 nadera78

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:38 AM

League express indicates today that the £2,400,000 freed up by the two clubs leaving SL is likely to be allocated by giving the top four clubs in the Championship/Superleague 2 £500,000 a year each.

 

Assuming todays league standings were the position in a couple of years time Salford, and London along with Sheffield and Featherstone would be getting this money.

 

This is just a "for instance" but unless I've read it wrong it may well be the case that Superleague 2 will be "loaded" to ensure four clubs battling for Superleague places have a better chance than perhaps they do now.

 

On current league placings Fax, Leigh, Batley, Haven Dewsbury, Workington, Keighley and Donny would just be making up the numbers??

Wow, so the Championship clubs will be hugely disadvantaged from the get go? And they're supposed to compete?

 

This whole thing just gets more and more bizarre.


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#757 The Parksider

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:41 AM

The extra money will more likely be redistributed to the remaining 12 surviving, greedy, inward looking SL teams.

 

If you think this then your argument is with the League Express editorial team.

 

IMHO Superleague is not inward looking, they've been looking at the financial collapse of several members and the declared cessation of investment by several more, Superleague has abandoned expansion beyond the english and french heartlands, and now it's time to abandon the idea of a "competitive league".

 

The only way to get competition again and get away from the embarrassment of Salford.v.London is to open up Superleague to the independants Featherstone, Halifax and Sheffield.



#758 Dave T

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:44 AM

The best thing the RFL could do would be to NOT distribute the extra 2 shares of SKY money to the 12 but use it wisely for development and promotion of the game.

 

Most sports in the UK rely on Internaltions to fund the grass roots sport we don't have that yet.

 

I'd like the sport to undergo a period of stability including the constant tinkering with rules, balls etc.

Whilst I agree with you, I don't think it's the RFL's choice where that money goes. 

 

They get one share, as do the Championship clubs.

 

That means that £2.4m is already held back. On top of the additional £2.4m that will be 'freed' up, it will be interesting to see what they share out to the 12 in the 2nd tier.

 

If the League Express article is correct then it does indeed seem bizarre to give different funding to teams in the same division, although not unheard of in sport.



#759 keighley

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:44 AM

If you think this then your argument is with the League Express editorial team.

 

IMHO Superleague is not inward looking, they've been looking at the financial collapse of several members and the declared cessation of investment by several more, Superleague has abandoned expansion beyond the english and french heartlands, and now it's time to abandon the idea of a "competitive league".

 

The only way to get competition again and get away from the embarrassment of Salford.v.London is to open up Superleague to the independants Featherstone, Halifax and Sheffield.

 

Well, I agree with your last paragraph. What you are outlining in your second paragraph seems to be the very definition of regressive and inward looking. it may be necessary due to finances but inward looking nevertheless.



#760 The Parksider

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:48 AM

Wow, so the Championship clubs will be hugely disadvantaged from the get go? And they're supposed to compete?

 

This whole thing just gets more and more bizarre.

 

Not in my book, the top clubs in the championship will be given a £500K advantage to help them battle it out with the failed Superleague clubs.

 

There will be several Championship clubs who won't get a penny under this proposal (which it remains) but you should know that the Batley's, Dewsbury's, Whitehaven's and Workington's etc won't be chomping at the bit to get to Superleague. Ambitions for joining SL are clearly limited to Toulouse, Fev, Fax and Sheffield.

 

What the likes of Batley and Dewsbury will welcome is an enhanced fixture list, so I guess they'll be happy with that. They won't refuse it if the alternative is to go play Gloucester etc?






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