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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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#781 GeordieSaint

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:29 PM

Both these ideas are truly ridiclous. No security, no guarantee of centralised income to build and develop for Championship clubs, a complete mess of the very good C1 competition, and far more instability in the game. The game is being run by lunatics at both the RFL and club level.


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#782 jpmc

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:35 PM

Both these ideas are truly ridiclous. No security, no guarantee of centralised income to build and develop for Championship clubs, a complete mess of the very good C1 competition, and far more instability in the game. The game is being run by lunatics at both the RFL and club level.

Surely champ 1 would be a much better and stronger league with more clubs in?

#783 Ponterover

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:39 PM

Surely champ 1 would be a much better and stronger league with more clubs in?

 

There was some mention of a north south split.  I don't think 14 clubs is enough to do this.

 

However, I agree - One competition with 14 clubs will be a big boost to the division.



#784 GeordieSaint

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:39 PM

Surely champ 1 would be a much better and stronger league with more clubs in?

 

Of course it would be but that isn't the idea. They are talking about splitting it into regions I believe.


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#785 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:41 PM

Of course it would be but that isn't the idea. They are talking about splitting it into regions I believe.

say it aint so


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#786 a.n Other

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:41 PM

Of course it would be but that isn't the idea. They are talking about splitting it into regions I believe.


Is that a bad thing? Reducing travelling costs of clubs who have small incomes to draw on?

#787 GeordieSaint

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:43 PM

Is that a bad thing? Reducing travelling costs of clubs who have small incomes to draw on?

 

It is if you are reducing the number of games they play and the competitiveness of the league.


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#788 nadera78

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:50 PM

Mark Aston raises an interesting question on the 12 teams for the Championship, or whatever it will be called. The two relegated SL clubs plus Sheffield, Leigh, Halifax, Featherstone and Toulouse makes 7. Which are the other 5 clubs capable of living with those 7? He knows far more about that league than I do and he can't see anyone doing it.


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#789 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:54 PM

Mark Aston raises an interesting question on the 12 teams for the Championship, or whatever it will be called. The two relegated SL clubs plus Sheffield, Leigh, Halifax, Featherstone and Toulouse makes 7. Which are the other 5 clubs capable of living with those 7? He knows far more about that league than I do and he can't see anyone doing it.


Perhaps Barrow and Worky plus Cru and Oldham (if they go up)

#790 GeordieSaint

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:58 PM

Mark Aston raises an interesting question on the 12 teams for the Championship, or whatever it will be called. The two relegated SL clubs plus Sheffield, Leigh, Halifax, Featherstone and Toulouse makes 7. Which are the other 5 clubs capable of living with those 7? He knows far more about that league than I do and he can't see anyone doing it.

 

Indicators are many of the people involved in playing and coaching the game are not particularly in favour of these changes but the club hierarchies and the RFL still seem to be pushing them. I can't understand the mindset of the people making the decisions? P&R (1 up 1 down) is one thing but drastically changing the game's structure to a system heavily reliant on funding when we don't have enough in the first place is mind-boggling.


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#791 Scubby

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 05:01 PM

Would it not just be sensible to itemise clubs as expansion (protected) and standard? 12 teams and 2 up 2 down.

 

12 teams must contain 3 expansion clubs each season (e.g. Toulouse, Catalans, London)

 

If Toulouse or London or Catalans finish in bottom two then only one team will be relegated and one promoted. Do we really want to face the prospect of Toulouse, London and Catalans all potentially dropping down and folding? Imagine if Catalans have a stinker next year and finish in the bottom two. Don't say it can't happen because 3 years ago it did. Ten years of development going t**s up in six months.


Edited by Scubby, 15 July 2013 - 05:03 PM.


#792 GeordieSaint

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

Would it not just be sensible to itemise clubs as expansion (protected) and standard? 12 teams and 2 up 2 down.

 

12 teams must contain 3 expansion clubs each season (e.g. Toulouse, Catalans, London)

 

If Toulouse or London or Catalans finish in bottom two then only one team will be relegated and one promoted. Do we really want to face the prospect of Toulouse, London and Catalans all potentially dropping down and folding? Imagine if Catalans have a stinker next year and finish in the bottom two. Don't say it can't happen because 3 years ago it did. Ten years of development going t**s up in six months.

 

The lunatics are running the asylum.


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#793 jpmc

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 05:29 PM

Would it not just be sensible to itemise clubs as expansion (protected) and standard? 12 teams and 2 up 2 down.
 
12 teams must contain 3 expansion clubs each season (e.g. Toulouse, Catalans, London)
 
If Toulouse or London or Catalans finish in bottom two then only one team will be relegated and one promoted. Do we really want to face the prospect of Toulouse, London and Catalans all potentially dropping down and folding? Imagine if Catalans have a stinker next year and finish in the bottom two. Don't say it can't happen because 3 years ago it did. Ten years of development going t**s up in six months.


Surely the idea of two fully pro leagues is so we can do away with protectionism?

#794 GeordieSaint

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 05:35 PM

Surely the idea of two fully pro leagues is so we can do away with protectionism?

 

It is an idea; not a reality. There is nowhere near enough money to sustain to pro-leagues within the game. Where the hell do you also develop the playing strength from either when we can't sustain 14 clubs now, nevermind 24. Simply throwing money at part-time players will not turn them into quality SL players the next season.

 

For the commercial value of the game and to potential TV deals in France, both Catalans and Toulouse must be retained indefinitely in the top division.


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#795 The Parksider

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 05:42 PM

Mark Aston raises an interesting question on the 12 teams for the Championship, or whatever it will be called. The two relegated SL clubs plus Sheffield, Leigh, Halifax, Featherstone and Toulouse makes 7. Which are the other 5 clubs capable of living with those 7? He knows far more about that league than I do and he can't see anyone doing it.


Oddly such as Dewsbury, Workington, Whitehaven and Batley live with the likes of them now?

They just lose most of their matches and make up the bottom end of the championship, nothing new in RL.

Mr. Aston assumes the two relegated clubs will be a force. Forced into administration maybe. As for the others it all depends on who actually has the money to make an assault on Superleague. Those who do will pass up into the middle eight comp.

The failures in the SL race will end up living with the 5 small clubs. IMHO there's going to be winners and losers in this mix - there's not going to be 19 strong clubs - haven't we been told the game is short of resources as geordie saint says above.

Besides the bottom 5 in SL2 may still be dual registered with the top 8 SL giants!

Edited by The Parksider, 15 July 2013 - 05:45 PM.


#796 Northern Sol

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:42 PM

Of course it would be but that isn't the idea. They are talking about splitting it into regions I believe.

I'd like to see that but there aren't enough southern clubs at the moment.

 

Before anyone bring up the old "fervent traditionalist" cliche. I'd suggest that they look at the gates that Hemel / Skolars / Oxford get playing each other and how many they get playing Rochdale / Oldham / Crusaders / Gateshead. 


Edited by Northern Sol, 15 July 2013 - 06:44 PM.


#797 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:25 PM

I'd like to see that but there aren't enough southern clubs at the moment.

 

Before anyone bring up the old "fervent traditionalist" cliche. I'd suggest that they look at the gates that Hemel / Skolars / Oxford get playing each other and how many they get playing Rochdale / Oldham / Crusaders / Gateshead. 

I see what you mean NS, but we need homogeneity

when these teams joined the comp, especially the new ones they will have budgeted for transport costs, or maybe they all even recieve a subsidy-money well spent.

I think the clubs, again expecially the new ones will have been aware of what their attendances would be-and I think they do remarkably well in their first campaign.


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#798 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:37 PM

I am going to leave the debate there for a while but I have enjoyed most of the debating over the weekend. Guess I will never agree with some members but I would like to thank them who can do it without breaking forum rules.

Take care all.
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#799 Jeff Stein

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:46 PM

One competition with 14 clubs will be a big boost to the division.


The competition doesn't need a big boost. It has been more successful than anyone could have hoped for this year and all the clubs appear to me to have bought into it. I think given that all teams have been relatively competitive this year there must be hopes that Coventry will be a successful entrant next year.

However if four teams (or five if Toulouse get the nod) come down next year, what will happen? Firstly in my view it will be a poisoned chalice going up this year as the chance of survival will be minimal. Second the competition will have a group of clubs in it who frankly don't want to be there. We can look forward to the division of death garbage again. Thirdly the league will be unbalanced again with expansion clubs potentially facing the grind of playing heartlands teams week after week with the ensuing damage that can do after consecutive batterings.

It annoys me that CC1 now appears to be an afterthought in the restructure. One of those at the heart of the RFL's plans has been quick to take credit for the success of CC1 this year and now appears not to give a monkeys about it.

As to regionalising it, I know that Hemel as an amateur club have always wanted to play in national leagues. How ironic now they have finally reached semi-pro level that they may be forced to play on a regional basis

#800 archibald

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:47 PM

So, 41 pages in, does anyone have the full plan as to what's going to happen yet?






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