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League restructuring for 2015


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#1 Shizonamy

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:31 PM

http://mobilebespoke...056582af4237114
Comments on where this leaves us. Personally we have to be in our own ground.
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#2 duffymoon

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 11:04 PM

We need to be in the second tier for 2015 otherwise presumably we will be in the bottom four in the Championship and those sides in Championship One.

#3 Blue Monkey

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:58 AM

 Personally we have to be in our own ground.

 

And don't we all know it all too well!

 

:shout:



#4 rockerlad

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:03 AM

They way i see it is. Two donw from SL, Tolouse going into the champ. 2 up from Champ 1 meaning 5 down for the champtionship next season????



#5 PhillH

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:30 AM

Very pleased to see the back of the licensing system personally. Promotion for the side that finishes on top of the Championship (i.e. not winners of the "Grand Final"), provided minimum standards are satisfied, is a better model in my view.  We will see if that system returns or "2 leagues of 12 then 3 leagues of 8" - I have only managed to get half way through any explanation of that proposal before losing the will to live - its straight out of Heath Robinson's handbook.

 

"The devil is in the detail......"! The true practical impact will depend on aspects Nigel Wood reportedly says are work in progress - distribution of money and minimum standards.  There are only 2 ways to narrow the gap - either water down Super League (the change is intended to do the opposite), or improve standards and the level of ambition amongst Championship clubs.  So it might mean a bit more centralised funding, possibly an increase in the Championship salary cap, possibly a new set of minimum standards.

 

We are left with many "ifs": If new minimum standards for "Super League 2" are drawn up, and "if" there is still intent to develop Agecroft, the new standards would provide a template for the facilities needing to be provided in order for that level of rugby to be accessible at that site.

 

Its possible there will be no promotion from Championship 1 and up to 5 sides relegated from the Championship in 2014, depending on what the authorities decide to do with Toulouse.


Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#6 PhillH

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:34 AM

They way i see it is. Two donw from SL, Tolouse going into the champ. 2 up from Champ 1 meaning 5 down for the champtionship next season????

 

The present league structure has divisions containing 14, 14 and 9.

 

The stated structure for 2015 is for the top two tiers to both have 12 sides.

 

If Tolouse enter into the second tier as you suggest, there would need to be 5 sides relegated from the 2014 Championship even if nobody was promoted upwards from Championship 1.  If 2 sides were allowed promotion from the 2014 Championship 1, the implication would be 7 sides relegated from the 2014 Championship.


Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#7 Little Lion Man

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:29 PM

The present league structure has divisions containing 14, 14 and 9.

 

The stated structure for 2015 is for the top two tiers to both have 12 sides.

 

If Tolouse enter into the second tier as you suggest, there would need to be 5 sides relegated from the 2014 Championship even if nobody was promoted upwards from Championship 1.  If 2 sides were allowed promotion from the 2014 Championship 1, the implication would be 7 sides relegated from the 2014 Championship.

Assuming this is correct, and does seem reasonable, then can I suggest it best that Swinton get relegated this year, and then promoted next year (in what would be a weaker Championship 1) - that presently looks like the easiest route to being the second tier of Superleague 2015 (as you say assuming promotion is permitted from Champ 1 for 2014).

 

We have all been looking for strategy from the club and a longer term view and perhaps this is even the clubs strategy all along and is the "cause"  that people keep searching for regarding Steve Mc leaving!

 

Conspiracy theories will abound .......soon it will be "unfair" if we abuse DR to get relegated  - Genius :ph34r:


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#8 PhillH

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:30 PM

Assuming this is correct, and does seem reasonable, then can I suggest it best that Swinton get relegated this year, and then promoted next year (in what would be a weaker Championship 1) - that presently looks like the easiest route to being the second tier of Superleague 2015 (as you say assuming promotion is permitted from Champ 1 for 2014).

 

We have all been looking for strategy from the club and a longer term view and perhaps this is even the clubs strategy all along and is the "cause"  that people keep searching for regarding Steve Mc leaving!

 

Conspiracy theories will abound .......soon it will be "unfair" if we abuse DR to get relegated  - Genius :ph34r:

 

Merely correcting rockerlad's arithmetic as his calculation was 2 clubs out.  For what its worth (i.e. nowt), I feel its most likely there will be no promotion from Championship 1 in 2014.  Thus whoever gets relegated this season probably faces at least 2 years of Championship 1 rugby - presently looking like Hunslet plus one other.

 

Of the clubs currently in Championship 1, only the North Wales Crusaders would really interest the RFL in terms of aspirations for the upper echelons and they are likely to be promoted this time around anyway.  None of the others presently has any realistic chance of becoming a Super League club any time soon - so the RFL wouldn't lose much sleep about cutting them off for a season.

 

Change was definitely needed to Championship 1 as it cannot be sustainable in its present format.  9 pretty poor teams based in expansionist areas regularly playing in front of 200 or less and only 8 home league games.....the top levels of the community game are stronger than that.

 

Tony Smith has come out strongly against the proposed changes.  I suspect he will want to see Swinton in the Championship next season in order that his young charges can prepare to take the step up with the Wolves by playing at a decent level.  Therefore, as happened in the away match at Hunslet, it would be no surprise if the proportion of Warrington players in the side went up for some of the upcoming matches that will have a critical bearing on the relegation battle.


Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#9 Keith T

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:32 PM

I think it's a fair bet that we will end up with the 2 x 12, 3 x 8 system that Nigel Wood and his major mouthpiece, Gary Hetherington, have been pushing so vigorously.

It depends on whether Toulouse can bring on board the French TV company, Bein TV, as to them being included in the system. If they can get them on board then I think they will go directly in to SL as the French TV company will not want to show Championship matches.

That will mean 3 current SL clubs dropping down (if the Championship clubs accept them in to their league) with a parachute payment of several hundred thousand pounds. To give the Championship the second division of 12 that means that 5 current Championship clubs would be relegated to Championship 1.

With P & R from Championship 1 to the Championship in future only being one club up and one club down then it could well be many years before those unfortunate to be in the 5 relegated clubs make it back to Championship level, that's if it doesn't kill them off all together.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#10 mark richardson

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:21 PM

Fortunately Keith many years never features in RL planning.

#11 rockerlad

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:52 PM

I think it's a fair bet that we will end up with the 2 x 12, 3 x 8 system that Nigel Wood and his major mouthpiece, Gary Hetherington, have been pushing so vigorously.

It depends on whether Toulouse can bring on board the French TV company, Bein TV, as to them being included in the system. If they can get them on board then I think they will go directly in to SL as the French TV company will not want to show Championship matches.

That will mean 3 current SL clubs dropping down (if the Championship clubs accept them in to their league) with a parachute payment of several hundred thousand pounds. To give the Championship the second division of 12 that means that 5 current Championship clubs would be relegated to Championship 1.

With P & R from Championship 1 to the Championship in future only being one club up and one club down then it could well be many years before those unfortunate to be in the 5 relegated clubs make it back to Championship level, that's if it doesn't kill them off all together.

 

 

 

It would kill the likes of town and haven off keith, crowds are poor now. They would be even worse in that divison. It will come down to "merge or die" in my eyes!



#12 rockerlad

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:55 PM

The present league structure has divisions containing 14, 14 and 9.

The stated structure for 2015 is for the top two tiers to both have 12 sides.

If Tolouse enter into the second tier as you suggest, there would need to be 5 sides relegated from the 2014 Championship even if nobody was promoted upwards from Championship 1. If 2 sides were allowed promotion from the 2014 Championship 1, the implication would be 7 sides relegated from the 2014 Championship.


Totally forgot the fact that championship would drop down to 12 as well.

#13 lionsfanusa

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:44 AM

As I sat musing about this topic, and after a couple of pints and some good red wine with medium rare lamb chops on the barbeque ...... I had this great idea.

 

Let's just go back to the way things were prior to SL.

 

Promotion and relegation, winter rugby (seeing as summer rugby appears to start before New Years), real scrums, play the ball properly. You get it if you saw RL prior to 1996. You probably saw touring teams play real tours, British Lions play test series. I know, they just won a series against the Aussies? Oh, that was RU. That used to be us!

 

In retrospect, what had Super League given us? No hope to get back to where we rightfully belong, a watered down sport, less global competition. A failure on all fronts!

 

Back to the 90s and fast!

 

And just in case you think that because I emigrated in the 60s, I'm out of touch with today's reality, I would point out that other than the twice a year Lions matches I get to see, NRL is on Fox Sports here every week, and I have personally attended probably the greatest recent Test GB win over Australia at Wembly in 1990, the World Cup Final loss in 1992 and at least two World Club Championship matches during that time.

 

Now that was real RL and I want it back! 

 

See you all at the York match on August 11!


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#14 marshy1

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:06 AM

As I sat musing about this topic, and after a couple of pints and some good red wine with medium rare lamb chops on the barbeque ...... I had this great idea.

Let's just go back to the way things were prior to SL.

Promotion and relegation, winter rugby (seeing as summer rugby appears to start before New Years), real scrums, play the ball properly. You get it if you saw RL prior to 1996. You probably saw touring teams play real tours, British Lions play test series. I know, they just won a series against the Aussies? Oh, that was RU. That used to be us!

In retrospect, what had Super League given us? No hope to get back to where we rightfully belong, a watered down sport, less global competition. A failure on all fronts!

Back to the 90s and fast!

And just in case you think that because I emigrated in the 60s, I'm out of touch with today's reality, I would point out that other than the twice a year Lions matches I get to see, NRL is on Fox Sports here every week, and I have personally attended probably the greatest recent Test GB win over Australia at Wembly in 1990, the World Cup Final loss in 1992 and at least two World Club Championship matches during that time.

Now that was real RL and I want it back!

See you all at the York match on August 11!

Agree entirely, rugby was far better pre-super league.

#15 Keith T

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:29 AM

I'm afraid that all of us who watched our game before 1996 who think this way are all luddites now. We have certainly lost a lot from our game whether the new fans of SL like it or not and I cannot see any change for non-SL clubs when these new systems are brought in. After attending matches for 64 years I have never been closer to the point of saying "what is the point" anymore!!!

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#16 PhillH

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:29 AM

Nigel Wood's latest interview uncovers that he is looking for Championship One to consist of 2 regionalised pools, "north" and "south"....


Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#17 lionsfanusa

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:54 PM

"It depends on whether Toulouse can bring on board the French TV company, Bein TV, as to them being included in the system. If they can get them on board then I think they will go directly in to SL as the French TV company will not want to show Championship matches."

We get Bein in the USA. Mostly European soccer. I understand it's the sports arm of Al Jazeerra, is based in France, and has lots of money available and is looking for content. 


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#18 mark richardson

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 11:56 AM

Agree entirely, rugby was far better pre-super league.


It was definitely fairer. Best team got promoted worst team got relegated
Its the whole point of the season

The clowns in charge have messed it all up....but they have never been any good. Since day one.