Jump to content





Photo
- - - - -

Northern Ireland and the Battle of the Boyne celebrations


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#21 Saint Billinge

Saint Billinge
  • Coach
  • 2,708 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:13 PM

That'll be the Fountain estate. There used to be a lot of protestants in the centre and they have gradually moved to the outskirts and feel they have been pushed out. There is a small remaining walled community of hardcore loyalists. I applied for a job at the school (before I realised) and it was tiny.

 

It was covered in Republican flags as well as Glasgow Celtic shirts. 



#22 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,496 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:03 PM

It was covered in Republican flags as well as Glasgow Celtic shirts. 

 

The organisers of these bonfires like to goad the other side by burning their 'icons'.


"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#23 fieldofclothofgold

fieldofclothofgold
  • Coach
  • 5,830 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:15 PM

In the mid 1990s I went with my two angling mates to a town called Belturbet just over the border and both sides got on well.The catholic priest used to play golf with the church of Ireland minister.At the time we were there the festival of the Erne [hope that is correct spelling]was taking place and on the weekend climax a lot came down from the north ,Belfast etc.The locals from both sides told us to be careful.Any we went in one bar called The Ulster bar it was like a Belfast or Glasgow shipyard bar from the 40s -50s very quiet,the we went in The Dublin bar it was full and Man utd poster's and pics all over.They soon sussed out our accent and us having a few beers told them we came from Leeds and we were RL  fans although we follow football results ,but no leanings to any club.My mates got up next day and the van radiator was punched through,next day the tyres were slashed.The locals told us "it was the oafs from Belfast who came down to pick on british tourists"I don't know if they did it because we were English or because we came from Leeds and they were Man utd fans.It cost us a packet to get the van fit enough to get us home, we had tokeep the radiator topped up every few miles


but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

#24 Maximus Decimus

Maximus Decimus
  • Coach
  • 7,712 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:23 PM

It was covered in Republican flags as well as Glasgow Celtic shirts.


Exactly what I meant when I said their purpose is to rile up the other side. It's beyond pathetic and I'd love to see them banned. The flag waving and kerb painting falls into this category as well for me.

#25 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,496 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:32 PM

Exactly what I meant when I said their purpose is to rile up the other side. It's beyond pathetic and I'd love to see them banned. The flag waving and kerb painting falls into this category as well for me.

 

I'm not convinced that it would be possible to ban them. We've seen the reaction to the decision of the Parades Commission to stop one group of Orangemen walking down one stretch of road (in the evening, they get to walk that stretch in the morning), so trying to ban numerous bonfires would almost certainly be beyond the authorities. Those wanting the fires would burn something.


"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#26 Saint Billinge

Saint Billinge
  • Coach
  • 2,708 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:59 PM

Exactly what I meant when I said their purpose is to rile up the other side. It's beyond pathetic and I'd love to see them banned. The flag waving and kerb painting falls into this category as well for me.

 

Quite innocently, I was about to take a picture of a police station surrounded by high fences and barbed wire, before my Irish host told me it would't be wise.  ;) That aside, I have enjoyed four fabulous holidays in Northern Ireland. For mine, the rugged coastline is outstanding.



#27 Maximus Decimus

Maximus Decimus
  • Coach
  • 7,712 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:15 PM

Quite innocently, I was about to take a picture of a police station surrounded by high fences and barbed wire, before my Irish host told me it would't be wise.  ;) That aside, I have enjoyed four fabulous holidays in Northern Ireland. For mine, the rugged coastline is outstanding.

 

The police vans are something to experience too.

 

I love Northern Ireland and still struggle to equate the troubles with the friendly country that I lived in for a year. The people are far friendlier than your average in any other country I've ever been and there are some aspects such as that one that I really miss.

 

Despite this, I wouldn't live there again unless I had to. I found the religious nature of the country stifling at times and it's a sad fact that as an Englishman you are something of a novelty over there. Walking into a shop and getting asked whether you're on holiday followed by people looking surprised to hear the accent quickly gets old as does worrying about what certain people will think of you when you open your mouth.

 

I suppose being English in Northern Ireland is slightly akin to being a Muslim in England without the different skin colour. To a number of people, you're one of the enemy regardless of the fact that I personally have done nothing. Sadly and unexpectedly, I didn't get a better reception from the protestant 'British' community. In fact the only real incident I had where I felt under threat because of my accent was in a cricket club (almost exclusively Unionists) where I overheard some lads talking about me and saying about how I wasn't welcome only for some girls I knew to stick up for me. I also didn't get a single days supply in a Protestant school, only in Catholic ones, often in rough Republican estates.



#28 Maximus Decimus

Maximus Decimus
  • Coach
  • 7,712 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:17 PM

I'm not convinced that it would be possible to ban them. We've seen the reaction to the decision of the Parades Commission to stop one group of Orangemen walking down one stretch of road (in the evening, they get to walk that stretch in the morning), so trying to ban numerous bonfires would almost certainly be beyond the authorities. Those wanting the fires would burn something.

 

Oh I completely agree. The marching and all of that is intimately tied up with their identity as a community. It's sad that many can't see the damage that it does and how it simply perpetuates the situation over there.



#29 Wolford6

Wolford6
  • Coach
  • 10,676 posts

Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:07 PM

I also didn't get a single days supply in a Protestant school, only in Catholic ones, often in rough Republican estates.

 

Were you a declared Catholic on your teaching agency registration? Maybe the schools  are really sensitive about these issues?

 

Either way, you did well being man enough to go there in the first place.

 

With regard to the religious divide in Ireland, I've always thought that, irrespective of being Protestant or Catholic: -

 - Northern Ireland = Old Testament

 - Eire = New Testament.


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police


#30 Maximus Decimus

Maximus Decimus
  • Coach
  • 7,712 posts

Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:49 AM

Were you a declared Catholic on your teaching agency registration? Maybe the schools  are really sensitive about these issues?

 

Either way, you did well being man enough to go there in the first place.

 

With regard to the religious divide in Ireland, I've always thought that, irrespective of being Protestant or Catholic: -

 - Northern Ireland = Old Testament

 - Eire = New Testament.

 

It's law that you don't put down your religion when signing up for the register. They have a very old fashioned system where you go to every school you'd like to do supply in and hand in a CV and speak to the Principal of the school if possible. That's a fun week I'll tell you.

 

If you've not been it's hard to imagine how religious it is. It's like I imagine early 20thC Britain being, even those rebellious enough not to go to mass will still cross themselves as they pass a church. No matter how naughty the kids, if a priest walks in the room they'll stand up and go quiet.



#31 gingerjon

gingerjon
  • Coach
  • 29,379 posts

Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:54 AM

The organisers of these bonfires like to goad the other side by burning their 'icons'.

Proper Protestants don't have icons.

 

I'll have a word with Paisley and get that passed on.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#32 Trojan

Trojan
  • Coach
  • 15,312 posts

Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:11 PM

Its about time this Orange Order stuff was ended. Looking at some of  the footage on the BBC News this was out and out thuggish criminal behaviour as yet uncondemned by the ignorant Orange bigots. 

 

Given the shenagans earlier this year when the democratically elected Belfast City Council decided to only fly the Union flag on Belfast City Hall on the same days it is flown on other public buildings in the rest of the UK I reckon anyone trying to stop the Orange Order is asking for serious trouble.

I was in Belfast on the 12th last year.  Purely by coincidence.  My wife, son and I had decided on a holiday in Ulster and the period covering the 12th was the only time we could all be off together.

We arrived on the evening of the 11th and the Crown LIquor Saloon in Belfast - the only place you can get cask ales - was closed!  But we had a nice meal in another pub and drank Guiness (the Smithwicks Ale is ####)  We set off for the Giants Causeway on the 12th and the road was lined with people in camp chairs waiting for the parade.  We got to Bushmills, with the intention of visiting the distillery (I love Bushmills Black Bush) but it was closed for the 12th!  The Orangemen were out in force though and one of the pubs was doing a brisk trade in "Ulster Fries" for the marchers.  We visited the famous rope bridge over the Atlantic and the Giants Causeway and TBF saw as many cars with Eire registrations as with NI ones.  We stayed the night at Port Stewart a pleasant seaside resort.  The following day we travelled to Downies in Donegal, the only way we could tell we'd crossed the border was that the roadsigns changed to Km's.  Downies is a pleasant place.  The following day back to Belfast for the Titanic experience (waste of money) and cask ales at the Crown. 

To say we were there when the trouble should be at its hottest we saw nothing troubling at all apart from a little girl who fell off the Giants Causeway and had to be taken to hospital by ambulance.

BTW don't the Bonfire Societies at Lewes in Sussex burn effigies of the Pope?


"This is a very wealthy country, money is no object" D. Cameron February 2014


#33 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 17,307 posts

Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:01 PM

 

BTW don't the Bonfire Societies at Lewes in Sussex burn effigies of the Pope?

They do but they insist that it is a specific pope not the current pope and not a "generic pope" and they do it out of tradition rather than any desire to wind folk up.



#34 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,496 posts

Posted 15 July 2013 - 07:35 PM

Proper Protestants don't have icons.

 

I'll have a word with Paisley and get that passed on.

 

Look at a typical Orangeman's collarette (like the one on BBC NI's news webpage). Icons-a-go-go!


"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#35 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,496 posts

Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:15 PM

A Scottish perspective on the Orange Order
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#36 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,496 posts

Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:18 PM

And another...

(Apologies if the music causes offence)
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#37 Trojan

Trojan
  • Coach
  • 15,312 posts

Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:52 PM

Look at a typical Orangeman's collarette (like the one on BBC NI's news webpage). Icons-a-go-go!

 

I'm involved in the construction industry and there are a lot of Irish people in England making a living out of construction. I was talking to one last week, about a bloke we both knew who was a prod from  Northern Ireland.  This guy couldn't make a go of his plant business in England so moved to Scotland, where he found it easy to do business "because he was a Protestant" whereas Catholics apparently always struggle.


"This is a very wealthy country, money is no object" D. Cameron February 2014


#38 Bostik Bailey

Bostik Bailey
  • Coach
  • 1,691 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:46 AM

Exactly what I meant when I said their purpose is to rile up the other side. It's beyond pathetic and I'd love to see them banned. The flag waving and kerb painting falls into this category as well for me.


I agree, but in the same principle.we should also ban Nov 5th 'celebrations' . It's the same sentiment

#39 Bostik Bailey

Bostik Bailey
  • Coach
  • 1,691 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:51 AM

. No matter how naughty the kids, if a priest walks in the room they'll stand up and go quiet.


Yes we'll they do have a 'special' way of punishing small boys.

#40 Maximus Decimus

Maximus Decimus
  • Coach
  • 7,712 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:05 PM

I'm not sure it is really. I come from a strict Catholic family and we certainly didn't feel like they were aimed at us and regularly attended one ourselves. It wasn't until I was much older that I realised it could come across that way.

 

In NI they decorate the whole bonfire with current Catholic/Republican symbols. Burning them is a deliberate sticking up of two fingers to provoke the other side and let them know how much they hate them.

 

I once saw them putting up a bonfire in Derry and they included a lot of EU flags as well, it's funny sometimes what they associate with and what they hate. For instance Protestants often fly an Israel flag whilst the Catholics fly a Palestinian one.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users