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James McManus - Australia or Scotland?


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#1 EastLondonMike

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:11 AM

Picked for the Blues in Origin 3.. so assume he has had to declare (again) his intentions to represent Australia? which would mean no selection for Scotland.

http://www.guardian....n-james-mcmanus


Announced in May that he wanted to play for Scotland in the World Cup.

http://www.rlwc2013....are-calling-for

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#2 thirteenthman

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:17 PM

He probably didn't formally elect to switch, but just announced a desire to play for Scotland. If he did that he could easily switch to being Scottish at the end of the Origin series.



#3 The Future is League

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:31 PM

If he decides to play for Scotland at the world cup i hope he doesn't switch to Australia later when they come knocking.



#4 walter sobchak

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:51 AM

This is what happens when the biggest game in rugby league isn't Australia v new Zealand or England but a game between two states in australia.

#5 Cake Tiger

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:59 PM

By playing SOO, he has to sign something stating his eligibility for Australia. Under the new rules (as I understand them), he is not allowed to declare for another country for 2 more years so can't represent Scotland at the World Cup. 

 

It's one of the reasons why Minichiello didn't want to play for NSW this year (not sure if he was formally asked) - he wants to play for Italy. 



#6 Railway End

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:24 PM

By playing SOO, he has to sign something stating his eligibility for Australia. Under the new rules (as I understand them), he is not allowed to declare for another country for 2 more years so can't represent Scotland at the World Cup. 

 

It's one of the reasons why Minichiello didn't want to play for NSW this year (not sure if he was formally asked) - he wants to play for Italy. 

 

Credit to Mini for that as well.  

 

I still don't see why players have to declare their allegiance for Australia to play SOO.  I thought the whole concept was you qualified through which state you played your junior football in.  If you have Scottish, Lebbanese, Samoan, Italian or Outer Mongolian heritage, you should still be allowed to play for that country as well as your home state.

 

All this rule is doing is holding back the international development of the game, with the likes of McManus unable to grace the World Cup ( I don't think Tim Sheens would pick him for Australia).


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#7 thirteenthman

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:38 PM

By playing SOO, he has to sign something stating his eligibility for Australia. Under the new rules (as I understand them), he is not allowed to declare for another country for 2 more years so can't represent Scotland at the World Cup. 

 

It's one of the reasons why Minichiello didn't want to play for NSW this year (not sure if he was formally asked) - he wants to play for Italy. 

 

But did he actually formally elect to play for Scotland? All I've read is a few articles saying he wants to play for the Scots. He last played Origin, was it 3 years ago, so presumably would've had Australia as his country of election already, so if he didn't actually switch to Scotland he could easily play Origin and then switch to Scotland afterwards. Surely anyone in his position would've waited til after the Origin series before formally switching nations, just in case he got called up, which of course he has done.


Edited by thirteenthman, 13 July 2013 - 04:53 PM.


#8 thirteenthman

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:00 PM

I still don't see why players have to declare their allegiance for Australia to play SOO.  I thought the whole concept was you qualified through which state you played your junior football in.  If you have Scottish, Lebbanese, Samoan, Italian or Outer Mongolian heritage, you should still be allowed to play for that country as well as your home state.
 

 

It doesn't really affect many players, but it seems a bit pointless particularly given the amended rules on qualification for Origin. I guess the bigger problem here is that, as others have rightly pointed out on this forum, the RLIF have no problem with someone playing Origin and for someone other than Australia, but Origin is governed by the ARLC, so they can make up whatever rule they want and apparently the RLIF have no say in the matter. But surely when a domestic competition is being used to influence international qualification, the RLIF should be able to step in.


Edited by thirteenthman, 13 July 2013 - 05:00 PM.


#9 deluded pom?

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 07:46 PM

By playing SOO, he has to sign something stating his eligibility for Australia. Under the new rules (as I understand them), he is not allowed to declare for another country for 2 more years so can't represent Scotland at the World Cup. 
 
It's one of the reasons why Minichiello didn't want to play for NSW this year (not sure if he was formally asked) - he wants to play for Italy.

Does the player have to declare his allegiance to Australia via the ARLC or the RLIF? If it's the former then it's not worth the paper it's written on

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#10 Pie tries

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 08:31 PM

Soo should not dictate international availability, how come Adrian lam managed png and origin ?

#11 deluded pom?

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 09:29 PM

Soo should not dictate international availability, how come Adrian lam managed png and origin ?

Because Queensland were desperate?

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#12 gnidir

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 11:46 PM

I think the Aussies have the right to do this to be honest. It's an Australian concept used to trial Australian players in high intensity matches, benefitting their international side, why should they dilute the concept? It comes down to the players desire to play internationally for another nation than Australia, if you want that, you can't play origin, thems the rules and I think rightly so.

#13 Cake Tiger

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:22 AM

By playing Origin, you are declaring your availability for Australia. You do this "afresh" every year you play Origin. 

 

It's interesting that the same doesn't seem to apply for City v Country, essentially a NSW Origin trial, because Mini played in that game.



#14 deluded pom?

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:00 AM

By playing Origin, you are declaring your availability for Australia. You do this "afresh" every year you play Origin. 
 
It's interesting that the same doesn't seem to apply for City v Country, essentially a NSW Origin trial, because Mini played in that game.

Didn' Mini play SoO and for Italy in the same year?

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#15 deluded pom?

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:04 AM

I think the Aussies have the right to do this to be honest. It's an Australian concept used to trial Australian players in high intensity matches, benefitting their international side, why should they dilute the concept? It comes down to the players desire to play internationally for another nation than Australia, if you want that, you can't play origin, thems the rules and I think rightly so.

Yet they were happy to dilute the concept when it suited them I.e. Adrian Lam. The Aussies were also happy to ignore the unwritten rule of only selecting Australia based players I.e. Alan Langer. Them's' only the rules when it suits.

Edited by deluded pom?, 14 July 2013 - 08:05 AM.

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#16 thirteenthman

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 10:03 AM

By playing Origin, you are declaring your availability for Australia. You do this "afresh" every year you play Origin. 

 

It's interesting that the same doesn't seem to apply for City v Country, essentially a NSW Origin trial, because Mini played in that game.

 

Mini hasn't played for City since 2010. His last Origin was 2011, and then he switched to Italy.

 

And the same does appear to apply to City v Country. Feleti Mateo has only ever played City v Country yet apparently he is bound to Australia for 2 years as well.



#17 deluded pom?

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 10:17 AM

Mini hasn't played for City since 2010. His last Origin was 2011, and then he switched to Italy.

And the same does appear to apply to City v Country. Feleti Mateo has only ever played City v Country yet apparently he is bound to Australia for 2 years as well.

But which authority do the players go to when pledging for Australia? It can't be the RLIF because they wouldn't acknowledge that playing SoO ties you to Australia. Of course if another player did a Mini and played origin and then for another nation it would be understandable that the ARL probably wouldn't ever select him for Australia or SoO again.

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#18 thirteenthman

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 10:32 AM

But which authority do the players go to when pledging for Australia? It can't be the RLIF because they wouldn't acknowledge that playing SoO ties you to Australia. Of course if another player did a Mini and played origin and then for another nation it would be understandable that the ARL probably wouldn't ever select him for Australia or SoO again.

 

I would've assumed that players simply have to inform the RLIF that they wish to alter their country of election - not explain the reasons why they're doing it. Player informs the RLIF that they wish to play for Australia, they get confirmation that it's OK, and then the ARLC say they're OK to play Origin. The player ties themselves to Australia even though they might never actually play for them, or as in the case of Feleti Mateo, they never actually play in an Origin series. But as as far as the RLIF are concerned, it's simply a case of someone electing to play for Australia.


Edited by thirteenthman, 14 July 2013 - 02:19 PM.


#19 Cake Tiger

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:49 PM

Mini hasn't played for City since 2010. His last Origin was 2011, and then he switched to Italy.

 

And the same does appear to apply to City v Country. Feleti Mateo has only ever played City v Country yet apparently he is bound to Australia for 2 years as well.

Thought he'd played this year but was wrong.



#20 Scubby

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:46 PM

I would like to see the legalities of preventing a person born in Scotland from representing Scotland in sport. Good luck with that ARL. I think if he said I am playing for Scotland it would be a case of 'ssshhh, keep it quiet' followed by 'move along please'.






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