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Where is the game heading?


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#101 Johnoco

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:32 PM

Is there no human being good enough for RL administration? I doubt it.
Who can match all the decades of unparalleled success?

#102 GeordieSaint

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:32 PM

No I do not welcome back Clubs like Brisbane or Cronulla etc... you are saying that not me.
If it was up to me and the majority that supported the ARL those Clubs could do their own thing and ###### off from our game.
You can forgive who ever you like that is your business, you can not tell me what I should think and who I should forgive can you?
If the British game at the time was so bad who's fault was that?
If the British game is in trouble now who's fault is that?
Its yours and your fellow fans and your Clubs management and RFL management.
Why is the game in England always a basketcase that jumps ship when it wants but should always be accepted back by the Aussies it tried to sell out?
Get your own House in order Mate before you dictate to others what they should think or accept.


Most rational people over here know the game is not as remotely strong as it should be and agree that the game is poorly run. However, it is good to know that the men in charge of the game in your country don't show your views otherwise your competition would be a shadow of what it is now without the likes of the Broncos and Storm plus the may never seen the genius of players like Lockyer, Inglis and Slater. Yeah, good one mate!

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#103 nadera78

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:58 PM

You have an opinion, the above is your opinion.
Lewis was clueless who rode the wave of the housing boom and a labour governments wasteful use of taxpayers money. The going got tough, the easy wins disappeared and he was off into the coasy tearooms of Wimbledon
We have a forum containing many non producers who read well but dont know how to generate sales, they live in a little cocoon back slapping each other whilst spouting their personal sheeeite as fact as they draw their local authority wage/pension- my opinion of course
We don't need administrators we need ballsy sales people to sell our potentially great product for the right price by focussing on its strengths, sack all the pen pushers and ban them from here. Our strengths are tangible, lets not be ashamed of them because they are why people play the game in Hemel and Bristol etc Once we get the right income for the product we create choices but lets not put the cart before the horse and certainly understand we are not a Con or Yank, we have a much longer and prouder history that has shaped us to be what we are
We must make the elite Super, we must increase the FT player pool, we must increase income into the sport, we must expand in France and to do it we must respect and strengthen the foundations

Wow, that's some rant. Go get yourself a beer.


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#104 Dave T

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:04 PM

We have a great game andI believe it's the best spectator sport there is.

These announcements of the past few days are frustrating. Everything that will be brought in was rejected as a failure 2008. So why when all that's proposed is proven to have failed, and by the RFL own words and admission, why are we re-introducing them again from 2015?

Youth development is excellent, better than ever. So what will happen to that? Cellar dwellar clubs can't afford to have young players making mistakes (which they do) which could cost a game and two points.Those same clubs will bring over mature, battle hardened NRL at massive cost to avoid relegation.Perhaps a cost they really can't afford.

When we dumped relegation we had around 47-48% of SL players from overseas. No relegation for six years and it's down to around 17% now. When relegation is re- introduced that % of overseas players will probably go up.

One way to prevent it is to raise the minimum of "club trained" players. Now it's 8 c.t. in the squad 25. They need to improve that to 8 in the gameday 17. That way youth development will still remain a priority.

Did we really have an average of 12 overseas players per club back in 2007/8?



#105 Dave T

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:05 PM

No I do not welcome back Clubs like Brisbane or Cronulla etc... you are saying that not me.

If it was up to me and the majority that supported the ARL those Clubs could do their own thing and ###### off from our game.

You can forgive who ever you like that is your business, you can not tell me what I should think and who I should forgive can you?

If the British game at the time was so bad who's fault was that?

If the British game is in trouble now who's fault is that?

Its yours and your fellow fans and your Clubs management and  RFL management.

Why is the game in England always a basketcase that jumps ship when it wants but should always be accepted back by the Aussies it tried to sell out?

Get your own House in order Mate before you dictate to others what they should think or accept.

It didn't sell the Aussies out, it just didn;t side with the half that you wanted it to.



#106 gingerjon

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:06 PM

Is there no human being good enough for RL administration? I doubt it.
Who can match all the decades of unparalleled success?

 

Who can forget that time when we were on the BBC *every Saturday*, accorded due respect throughout, playing to full stadiums all the time, the players were full-time, fully-insured and fully capable of beating a team of Australians on their own, *and* TGG was played in every town and village in the country.


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#107 Johnoco

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:13 PM

Who can forget that time when we were on the BBC *every Saturday*, accorded due respect throughout, playing to full stadiums all the time, the players were full-time, fully-insured and fully capable of beating a team of Australians on their own, *and* TGG was played in every town and village in the country.

This was indeed an imaginary golden era. RL players were also equally famous as their counterparts like Bobby Moore and Charlton.

#108 Methven Hornet

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:54 PM

Who can forget that time when we were on the BBC *every Saturday*, accorded due respect throughout, playing to full stadiums all the time, the players were full-time, fully-insured and fully capable of beating a team of Australians on their own, *and* TGG was played in every town and village in the country.

 

And was a genuine alternative to the pantomime 'wrestling' on the other channel.


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#109 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:12 PM

the game will never die in this country

but an opportunity has been lost...although that will come to pass down the line, and I doubt whether the game will now achieve the status it deserves. This disappoints me. I'll carry on enjoying the game.

 

do I think the people running the game are incompetent assholes who don't care about the game? No

 

will I be boycotting the world cup 'on principle'? No

 

will I whine for the next couple of decades about how unfair everything is? no

 

will I use the terms shafted, sold down the river, joke, laughing stock, level playing field at every opportunity? No

 

wilI ceaselessly inveigle any of the above into every topic on this forum? no.

 

if this development means that the reactionaries will stop doing all of the above, then it isn't all bad news. But history tells me that there will be something else to feel victimised about distant future. That's the way it was before all this.


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#110 bobbruce

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:20 PM

You are an English Expat Jim? Yes


Seen as your asking aren't you Andy?

#111 bobbruce

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:25 PM

You have an opinion, the above is your opinion.
Lewis was clueless who rode the wave of the housing boom and a labour governments wasteful use of taxpayers money. The going got tough, the easy wins disappeared and he was off into the coasy tearooms of Wimbledon


Yes after being head hunted first by sport England and the FA. Yet still some fans couldn't see we had a gem.

#112 giwildgo

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:06 PM

The depression I have with the sport is the general lack of realism and prevailing criticism that follows every move and decision. We started out as a regional sport and we'll end up that way. It isn't for want of trying that we've failed to significantly expand or that the wider public fail to appreciate the game. It's just a fact. Time to accept it for what it is, and enjoy it rather than the constant negativity. We've tried to grow the game for 100+ years, it failed, just accept its a niche in the UK albeit one we enjoy.

Edited by giwildgo, 12 July 2013 - 07:07 PM.


#113 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:14 PM

The depression I have with the sport is the general lack of realism and prevailing criticism that follows every move and decision. We started out as a regional sport and we'll end up that way. It isn't for want of trying that we've failed to significantly expand or that the wider public fail to appreciate the game. It's just a fact. Time to accept it for what it is, and enjoy it rather than the constant negativity. We've tried to grow the game for 100+ years, it failed, just accept its a niche in the UK albeit one we enjoy.

but it hasn't failed

look at student rugby league, the women's game, championship one, and super league itself.

It wont fail after this, a decision has been taken in good faith, like all the decisions the governing body. I have great respect for the people attempting to make some sense of the hand this sport has been dealt with historically.

 

IMHO this decision favours the reactionary elements in the sport. I think in the medium to long term it will damage any idea of taking the sport forward and the sport will retreat back into its ghetto.


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#114 Methven Hornet

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:16 PM

Yes after being head hunted first by sport England and the FA. Yet still some fans couldn't see we had a gem.

 

Richard Lewis was the best administrator the game has ever had, and, as someone who had no previous connections with the game, judged rugby league against other, normal, mainstream sports. Without the usual cultural baggage, he just couldn't understand why the game was only really played in parts of three northern counties, wasn't recognised by the international sporting community, didn't have an adequate and proper international federation, and, worst of all, didn't really have a strategy for rectifying any of its shortcomings.

Bringing rugby league and its administration into the 21st century was about as difficult a job as you are likely to find in sport, but Lewis gave it his best shot (a fact not lost on the likes of SportEngland, the FA and the All England Club). We did see progress - proper administrative structures introduced, a nascent international federation in the shape of RLEF, the beginnings of the game being recognised by the international community (eg Commonwealth Games Federation), and a strategy for the expansion of the game both domestically and, within the RFL's sphere of influence, internationally. There were setbacks, but I don't think he ever lost his faith in rugby league, one day, being a normal sport like soccer, union, and cricket, rather than the stunted game - largely restricted to the few towns that played it in the late 19th, early 20th centuries - it remains today.

And rather than "being off at the first sign of trouble" he did stand his ground when he felt it was necessary, as when London's Super League spot was under threat. 

These would have been hard times for the game to have survived, anyway, but the lack of an adequate replacement for Richard Lewis will have its consequences. Some of the recent proposals coming from the game's current "administrator's" are, I fear, just the beginning of a wider retrenchment.


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#115 Dave T

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:19 PM

but it hasn't failed

look at student rugby league, the women's game, championship one, and super league itself.

It wont fail after this, a decision has been taken in good faith, like all the decisions the governing body. I have great respect for the people attempting to make some sense of the hand this sport has been dealt with historically.

 

IMHO this decision favours the reactionary elements in the sport. I think in the medium to long term it will damage any idea of taking the sport forward and the sport will retreat back into its ghetto.

You could argue that licensing has had little to do with the growth of Student RL, nothing to do with Women's RL, Champ 1 and has negatively impacted Championship. None of this work will stop with the return of P&R - I don't think so anyway.

 

The risk is around SL, yet there is no reason why the clubs like Wigan, Leeds, Hudds, Catalan, Saints, Wire, Hull etc who have all led the growth won't continue to grow. 

 

The issues will come around the middle section of teams (bottom of SL and top of CC) - yet if we are being brutally honest, are these clubs thriving anyway? I'd say not.

 

One thing that seems to have been lost is that the Salary Cap has been tightened in the last week, reverting back to 50% of income, unless underwritten by directors.



#116 Methven Hornet

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:25 PM

The depression I have with the sport is the general lack of realism and prevailing criticism that follows every move and decision. We started out as a regional sport and we'll end up that way. It isn't for want of trying that we've failed to significantly expand or that the wider public fail to appreciate the game. It's just a fact. Time to accept it for what it is, and enjoy it rather than the constant negativity. We've tried to grow the game for 100+ years, it failed, just accept its a niche in the UK albeit one we enjoy.

 

That is a quaint fantasy, that the game can somehow be like it was in some past, golden age. The world doesn't work like that. You have to keep progressing as a sport or you'll be left behind. 

Or at least be honest with everybody and those clubs, players and supporters that think like this breakaway into some cultural preservation society to keep a form of the game going, much in the same way as morris dancing societies keep their particular pastime alive. Interesting, but of little relevance to the modern world. Then let the RFL develop and expand the game throughout its territory - as it is bound to do in its constitution - as a serious game for everyone to play.


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#117 The Future is League

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:53 PM

Because we spend so much time focusing on what's wrong with it instead of what's right with it. We're always sending out negative messages, why would anyone new want to associate themselves with that?

 

For whatever reason, the RFL have embarked on a league restructure debate in the run up to a major World Cup tournament. Why now, in World Cup year? It's madness! The end result of it is that the game and everyone associated with it is looking inwards endlessly discussing its limitations, running down its existing competitions and clubs and making declarations of doom depending on which side of the restructured fence they sit. It is a totally corrosive atmosphere, pure poison to anyone outside the sport who will not give a toss how we organise the domestic league.

 

Instead of repeatedly pulling our own sport to bits like this, we should be projecting the enormous virtues of Rugby League to the outside world right now if we want anyone outside our enclosed environment to pay attention to it, which we desperately need them to in order to increase crowds and sponsorship revenues.

Very good points here John. When we should all be thinking and talking about the world cup we are talking about a restructuring of the game which in my opinion is divisive.



#118 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:03 PM

You could argue that licensing has had little to do with the growth of Student RL, nothing to do with Women's RL, Champ 1 and has negatively impacted Championship. None of this work will stop with the return of P&R - I don't think so anyway.

 

The risk is around SL, yet there is no reason why the clubs like Wigan, Leeds, Hudds, Catalan, Saints, Wire, Hull etc who have all led the growth won't continue to grow. 

 

The issues will come around the middle section of teams (bottom of SL and top of CC) - yet if we are being brutally honest, are these clubs thriving anyway? I'd say not.

 

One thing that seems to have been lost is that the Salary Cap has been tightened in the last week, reverting back to 50% of income, unless underwritten by directors.

it didn't have anything to do with licensing

I'm saying that 'the work won't stop' in my post. Checkout what I'm actually saying mate


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#119 Dave T

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:11 PM

it didn't have anything to do with licensing

I'm saying that 'the work won't stop' in my post. Checkout what I'm actually saying mate

But you used these things as examples of growth and the game doing well and your last line stated 'in the medium to long term it will stop the game going forward and it will retreat' - why?

 

Surely this progress can still happen?



#120 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:36 PM

But you used these things as examples of growth and the game doing well and your last line stated 'in the medium to long term it will stop the game going forward and it will retreat' - why?

 

Surely this progress can still happen?

that's a fair question and I apologise for expressing myself badly.

 

student rugby league, the womens' game, championship one and other advances wont be affected directly , and in the short term.

What will be affected in the short term is professional rugby league.

A vibe of parochialism, entrenched attitudes and a failure to nurture growth is bound to affect perceptions of the game in the medium long term and will affect perceptions about the sports attractiveness culturally.

I hope this doesn't happen, and I hope these changes don't have a negative affect of the game and I think decisions have been taken in good faith.


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