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Civil Wars


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#21 Trojan

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:53 PM

Islamic division is the cause of most current civil wars.

 

That's a fairly broad if inaccurate generalisation.  The English Civil Wars most certainly weren't caused by Islam, possibly by Christianity but not by Islam. Same goes for the more recent Northern Ireland "troubles" - a civil war in everything but name, or the Spanish Civil War which was most certainly fomented by the Catholic Church.


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#22 marklaspalmas

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:02 PM

Very interesting question. I've read a lot about the Spanish civil war, but I doubt I have a particularly informed response to the OP from a Spanish perspective. I suspect the war's impact on the population ebbed and flowed depending on the geographical focus. The Nationalists marched into Las Palmas early doors with next to no resistance, changed the leadership, threw out the politicians, changed the flag and left their friends to get on with it. Times were exceptionally tough, but day to day life was pretty normal. Life in under sieged cities like Madrid and Barcelona that had street to street fighting with the majority of the male population, kids evacuated abroad, etc. must have been very different. Sanitary conditions and food supplies collapsed completely, indeed intentionally worsening the daily life for ordinary people was very much a tactic when trying to capture a city. Grim.


 

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#23 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:17 PM

Very interesting question. I've read a lot about the Spanish civil war, but I doubt I have a particularly informed response to the OP from a Spanish perspective. I suspect the war's impact on the population ebbed and flowed depending on the geographical focus. The Nationalists marched into Las Palmas early doors with next to no resistance, changed the leadership, threw out the politicians, changed the flag and left their friends to get on with it. Times were exceptionally tough, but day to day life was pretty normal. Life in under sieged cities like Madrid and Barcelona that had street to street fighting with the majority of the male population, kids evacuated abroad, etc. must have been very different. Sanitary conditions and food supplies collapsed completely, indeed intentionally worsening the daily life for ordinary people was very much a tactic when trying to capture a city. Grim.

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I can't help thinking
Do people still go to work
Do countries still import and export
Is there still a cultural life and so on

As ever your perspective is interesting

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 15 July 2013 - 03:19 PM.

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#24 GeordieSaint

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:58 PM

Very interesting question. I've read a lot about the Spanish civil war, but I doubt I have a particularly informed response to the OP from a Spanish perspective. I suspect the war's impact on the population ebbed and flowed depending on the geographical focus. The Nationalists marched into Las Palmas early doors with next to no resistance, changed the leadership, threw out the politicians, changed the flag and left their friends to get on with it. Times were exceptionally tough, but day to day life was pretty normal. Life in under sieged cities like Madrid and Barcelona that had street to street fighting with the majority of the male population, kids evacuated abroad, etc. must have been very different. Sanitary conditions and food supplies collapsed completely, indeed intentionally worsening the daily life for ordinary people was very much a tactic when trying to capture a city. Grim.

 

I have just read 'Homeage to Catalonia' by George Orwell. Very interesting read and a good indicator of why the Republic/Communists faltered in their resistance to Franco.


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#25 Northern Sol

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 06:27 PM

Of the top 9 conflicts (by deaths per year) only one (Mexico) isn't in an Islamic country.

 

Hard to say that he doesn't have a point.



#26 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:29 PM

I have just read 'Homeage to Catalonia' by George Orwell. Very interesting read and a good indicator of why the Republic/Communists faltered in their resistance to Franco.

he certainly brought home the confusion and infighting  of it all and the hoplessness of the international brigades organisation. Funnily enough, today I've beenb reading aq bit about people who were figures in rugby league and their involvement i the international brigades.


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#27 gingerjon

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:38 PM

Of the top 9 conflicts (by deaths per year) only one (Mexico) isn't in an Islamic country.

 

Hard to say that he doesn't have a point.

 

It's an interesting page.  I don't know how accurate it is but I was surprised how few actual conflicts are ongoing currently.


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#28 GeordieSaint

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:56 PM

It's an interesting page.  I don't know how accurate it is but I was surprised how few actual conflicts are ongoing currently.

 

I am surprised about how low the conflicts in the Democratic Republic of Congo were... slightly dubious!


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#29 Jeff Stein

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:02 PM

Read Villa and Zapata by Frank McLynn about the Mexican Civil War. While the death toll was very high and the warfare often barbaric, he pointed that huge swathes of the country including Mexico City were left virtually untouched by the fighting.

#30 marklaspalmas

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:48 PM

I have just read 'Homeage to Catalonia' by George Orwell. Very interesting read and a good indicator of why the Republic/Communists faltered in their resistance to Franco.

 

It certainly outlines Orwell's frustrations with what he found in Spain. I'm not sure it's that relevant as to how and why the Republicans lost. I think the roots of the war were more complex than many IB volunteers understood (or wanted to understand).


 

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#31 marklaspalmas

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:49 PM

 Funnily enough, today I've beenb reading aq bit about people who were figures in rugby league and their involvement i the international brigades.

 

That'd be good. What you got?


 

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#32 Bleep1673

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:42 PM

Late post sorry

Edited by Bleep1673, 16 July 2013 - 01:43 PM.

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#33 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:17 PM

I thought he was talking about "current" civil wars?

 

 

I thought he was talking about "current" civil wars?

what makes you think that?


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#34 Wolford6

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:20 PM

Islamic division is the cause of most current civil wars.

 

This


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#35 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:41 PM

That'd be good. What you got?

 

 

That'd be good. What you got?

John Clynes of Bradford and Bramley

Dai Davies of Batley

and a guy calledJoe Latus who wasn't a player, but whi ws involved with Hull Fc


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#36 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:42 PM

 

Because his post said this:

 

"Islamic division is the cause of most current civil wars."

 

Seems pretty clear to me, does it not to you?

 

 

 

 

Because his post said this:

 

"Islamic division is the cause of most current civil wars."

 

Seems pretty clear to me, does it not to you?

 

my apologies

a mix up of my own making


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#37 Futtocks

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:29 PM

and a guy called Joe Latus who wasn't a player, but whi ws involved with Hull Fc


Any relation to Sam? That can't be a common surname.

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#38 Wolford6

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:31 PM

Is Sam left wing or right wing?


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#39 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:36 PM

Any relation to Sam? That can't be a common surname.

 

 

Any relation to Sam? That can't be a common surname.

dunno

it isn't exactly a common surname


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#40 GeordieSaint

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:41 PM

It certainly outlines Orwell's frustrations with what he found in Spain. I'm not sure it's that relevant as to how and why the Republicans lost. I think the roots of the war were more complex than many IB volunteers understood (or wanted to understand).

 

I am not stating it was the cause but certainly had a part to play. I am currently on a course at Sandhurst and we've been discussing Mao; he very cleverly used both the Communists and Nationalists (whilst subverting their cause) in order to defeat Imperial Japan before turning on the Nationalists openly post-1945. The point I am trying to make is the 'Republican' cause had no unifying purpose or use all of its resources to achieve the aim of defeating Franco.


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