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Where do France go if Toulouse don't get in sl


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230 replies to this topic

#21 keighley

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:20 PM

But Toulouse is already a rugby league area. It's not 'pie in the sky', it's a case of not squandering the few natural resources we possess.

 

Everybody says that but to what degree. Featherstone and Leigh are RL areas. Do Toulouse draw any better than them. When Toulouse were playing at the same level, I,e, Championship, what were their crowds like. I seem to remember they were  between 1 and 2 thousand. If so where is the belief that they can draw 10,000 crowds to enable them to be a competitive SL team, It seems to me that Toulouse is much more of a RU and soccer heartland than is Toulouse.

 

I am not completely against a Toulouse SL team but to seems to me there is a lot of false optimism as to the likely success of such a team.



#22 keighley

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:21 PM

But Toulouse is already a rugby league area. It's not 'pie in the sky', it's a case of not squandering the few natural resources we possess.

 

Everybody says that but to what degree. Featherstone and Leigh are RL areas. Do Toulouse draw any better than them. When Toulouse were playing at the same level, I,e, Championship, what were their crowds like. I seem to remember they were  between 1 and 2 thousand. If so where is the belief that they can draw 10,000 crowds to enable them to be a competitive SL team, It seems to me that Toulouse is much more of a RU and soccer heartland than a RL one.

 

I am not completely against a Toulouse SL team but to seems to me there is a lot of false optimism as to the likely success of such a team.



#23 walter sobchak

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:22 PM

But Toulouse is already a rugby league area. It's not 'pie in the sky', it's a case of not squandering the few natural resources we possess.


I want Toulouse in super league but they must play by the same rules as everybody else i.e. if they finish last they get relegated.

#24 winnyason

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:31 PM

How can you peanuts prove this with the crowds utc had similar surprise me the same supporters of small clubs that have not played superleague for years are against it.
Anyway the French may do it there own way, offensive johnm you have no idea pal

#25 Scubby

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:41 PM

Everybody says that but to what degree. Featherstone and Leigh are RL areas. Do Toulouse draw any better than them. When Toulouse were playing at the same level, I,e, Championship, what were their crowds like. I seem to remember they were  between 1 and 2 thousand. If so where is the belief that they can draw 10,000 crowds to enable them to be a competitive SL team, It seems to me that Toulouse is much more of a RU and soccer heartland than is Toulouse.

 

I am not completely against a Toulouse SL team but to seems to me there is a lot of false optimism as to the likely success of such a team.

 

Featherstone population 15k, Leigh population 43k, Toulouse population 440k. HTH



#26 ckn

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:45 PM

As you may have seen, frothy mouthed posts get deleted when they start getting into calling people "knob jockeys".  I also deleted those posts that quoted those frothy mouthed rants.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#27 keighley

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:55 PM

Featherstone population 15k, Leigh population 43k, Toulouse population 440k. HTH

 

I think you made my point. They have this large population as does for example, Sheffield, and they still don't have bigger attendances than leigh, Fev etc. Are you therefore so certain  that they are a strong RL heartland area and therefore certain to be a huge success if in SL?



#28 keighley

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:55 PM

Featherstone population 15k, Leigh population 43k, Toulouse population 440k. HTH

 

I think you made my point. They have this large population as does for example, Sheffield, and they still don't have bigger attendances than leigh, Fev etc. Are you therefore so certain  that they are a strong RL heartland area and therefore certain to be a huge success if in SL?



#29 Scubby

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:10 PM

I think you made my point. They have this large population as does for example, Sheffield, and they still don't have bigger attendances than leigh, Fev etc. Are you therefore so certain  that they are a strong RL heartland area and therefore certain to be a huge success if in SL?

 

Toulouse have never had a top flight full-time professional RL club! All Toulouse's data is from being a part-time club in a second tier competition. Featherstone, Leigh and Sheffield all have had chances in the big time. None of those clubs have averaged over 5k on any regular basis. It will be a real struggle for any of those to do that in the future.

 

This is not to say they could or should get a chance to play SL.

 

You could have made exactly the same comments about XIII Catalan/St Esteve (10 years ago) who were getting around 500-1000 playing semi-professional in Elite 1. They also got whacked by Wigan by 80 points in the Challenge cup in 2003-2004-ish. Now they are one of the 6-8 biggest RL clubs in the Northern Hemisphere and regularly average 8,000-10,000. This is from a population of 120,000.

 

Toulouse have 4x the population of Perpignan and 10x the population of Leigh. Unlike Sheffield, RL has been played there for 75 years. It would be madness not to tap into this potential. It was no surprise that 10-15k turned up for a 'big-time' RL game there last month. This could be a reality every other week in around 5 years.

 

Toulouse is the only club with the potential to become the next Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Bradford, St Helens etc. We have plenty of candidates to become the next Salford, Castleford, Wakefield. In effect we are talking about two different markets.


Edited by Scubby, 14 July 2013 - 02:15 PM.


#30 joe elliot

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:20 PM

I don't see the problem in guaranteeing French teams no relegation. It's for the good of the game, I'm not really interested in the philosophy of it has to be equal for everyone, my philosophy is for the good of the game.
Club bosses and fans are important but not more important than the game expanding.
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#31 The Daddy_merged

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:36 PM

Toulouse have never had a top flight full-time professional RL club! All Toulouse's data is from being a part-time club in a second tier competition. Featherstone, Leigh and Sheffield all have had chances in the big time. None of those clubs have averaged over 5k on any regular basis. It will be a real struggle for any of those to do that in the future.

This is not to say they could or should get a chance to play SL.

You could have made exactly the same comments about XIII Catalan/St Esteve (10 years ago) who were getting around 500-1000 playing semi-professional in Elite 1. They also got whacked by Wigan by 80 points in the Challenge cup in 2003-2004-ish. Now they are one of the 6-8 biggest RL clubs in the Northern Hemisphere and regularly average 8,000-10,000. This is from a population of 120,000.

Toulouse have 4x the population of Perpignan and 10x the population of Leigh. Unlike Sheffield, RL has been played there for 75 years. It would be madness not to tap into this potential. It was no surprise that 10-15k turned up for a 'big-time' RL game there last month. This could be a reality every other week in around 5 years.

Toulouse is the only club with the potential to become the next Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Bradford, St Helens etc. We have plenty of candidates to become the next Salford, Castleford, Wakefield. In effect we are talking about two different markets.


Lets not forget the wider metropolitan area of Toulouse has a population of well over a million, and thats not including the support it would get from the Midi Pyrenees as a whole and the Tarn. Yeah just a tad different from fev, leigh and sheffield.

By the way how would fev and leigh cope financially and attendance wise if they had to play in the french league, or worse still the 2nd string french league?

#32 Cliff Spracklen

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:38 PM

If we want to have a vibrant French RL we should give Toulouse all the support it needs to be successful in Super League.

If we're comfortable with allowing French RL to die a slow death we should slam the door in their faces.

It's a simple choice.

Absolutely spot on. We need to seriously grasp the nettle on this If we are serious about supporting French RL to grow. We have dithered for so long now there needs to be a clear decision, whatever might be happening or not with the rest of SL. It needs this and without a strong French game we will be relatively isolated as a sport in Europe, despite the excellent efforts of the RLEF  . Otherwise I can see only a slow decline in France over the long term with the sport never getting beyond semi-pro level. This would eventually effect the Dragons as well as media exposure would not grow. Without the media and commercial exposure that Toulouse entry would bring you would never get professional operations anywhere else. 



#33 owls

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:43 PM

Absolutely spot on. We need to seriously grasp the nettle on this If we are serious about supporting French RL to grow. We have dithered for so long now there needs to be a clear decision, whatever might be happening or not with the rest of SL. It needs this and without a strong French game we will be relatively isolated as a sport in Europe, despite the excellent efforts of the RLEF  . Otherwise I can see only a slow decline in France over the long term with the sport never getting beyond semi-pro level. This would eventually effect the Dragons as well as media exposure would not grow. Without the media and commercial exposure that Toulouse entry would bring you would never get professional operations anywhere else. 

 

Correct me if Iam wrong and i may be being relatively new to the sport, but wasnt the whole idea  of Super League Europe to expand the game

and have an international flavour to the league, if the Catalans have a bad season and go down surely that would be the end of them,

there would be little interest in them playing in the 2nd tier of english RL ,

If Toulouse can  bring some  new money into the game then being in SLE surely is a must,

retreating to an  M62 league would be a backward step,

 



#34 1976PMJwires

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:53 PM

Nothing to see here, having Catalans in super league hasn't seen an improvement in the French national team...... I wish people would stop pretending, the one nation to get stronger is Wales since the ESL and they've got two in the bottom league. Toulsouse had a chance and the rest is history !!

#35 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:54 PM

As a Leigh fan, I am desperate for Toulouse to be one of the twelve clubs in 2015. Also they and Cats should be exempt with a UK team being relegated. What we need to do is seek more cash from French TV once Toulouse are in and settled. Then we need to expand gradually promoting teams from the LER and the second division

#36 owls

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:08 PM

Nothing to see here, having Catalans in super league hasn't seen an improvement in the French national team...... I wish people would stop pretending, the one nation to get stronger is Wales since the ESL and they've got two in the bottom league. Toulsouse had a chance and the rest is history !!

 

yes i agree to your first point,  but one team can not create a big enough pool of international players, there  has to be competition for places and the Cats can not do it alone,



#37 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:13 PM

If Toulouse are not admitted i expect the Dragons to go under within 2/3 seasons which would be a disaster.

There is no hope of there ever being a fully professional french league what we need is more french teams in SL.

CM

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#38 The Daddy_merged

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:14 PM

Nothing to see here, having Catalans in super league hasn't seen an improvement in the French national team...... I wish people would stop pretending, the one nation to get stronger is Wales since the ESL and they've got two in the bottom league. Toulsouse had a chance and the rest is history !!


Garbage......France have improved, unfortunately so have England. But in last years home series I thought they played a lot better than they had in previous years and I noticed some improvement. Remember rugby league is a very unforgiving sport, once a team is dominant and gets a roll on the points can rack up. But France have a number of fantastic players in their ranks who could get into any team, having Toulouse would extend that depth. There is only so much depth that can be drawn from one team.

#39 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:22 PM

Really don't see why everyone wants another French team in, another expensive trip for away fans to pay for and another fixture where no away fans turn up. Hardly any good for finances of clubs or supporters!!

If I had to choose between an away game at Leigh Halifax or fev as opposed to one at Toulouse it would be a no brainer
A weekend in the south of France to watch the rugby eating and drinking and carousing is one of life's pure joys
Presumably you would have the cup final played at cleckheaton for the same reason.
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#40 1976PMJwires

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:38 PM

Garbage......France have improved, unfortunately so have England. But in last years home series I thought they played a lot better than they had in previous years and I noticed some improvement. Remember rugby league is a very unforgiving sport, once a team is dominant and gets a roll on the points can rack up. But France have a number of fantastic players in their ranks who could get into any team, having Toulouse would extend that depth. There is only so much depth that can be drawn from one team.


Opinions, Wales have improved more, in fact they beat France to gain qualification for the 4N. But don't let facts put you off




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