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The advantages of DR to Championship clubs in revue


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#41 dkw

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:32 AM

Fair enough, but come the playoffs or later season games which might make or break Town,s season, it is to be hoped that Widnes still are making players available.

Sigh, how about we just stick to the facts and what we now HAS happened, rather than what MIGHT happen eh. You really are desperate to show everything DR in a bad light, know matter how pathetic you look.



#42 dkw

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:35 AM

the way we are playing i hope workington make players available to us...........seriously, yes widnes will continue to honour the terms of the deal with town

Ha ha, get your bloody grubby hands of the Phillips boys... :tongue:



#43 The Parksider

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:55 AM

Are your gates up ? is your playing record better than last season.? If that's keeping you alive and a success, then I'm happy for you.

 

No and No. Without these quality lads we may be have already been doomed now.



#44 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:58 AM

If the clubs using DR had more success on the field, I'd see it as a more credible option.

 Is that your only measure of success? Someone's always got to finish towards the bottom of the table.

 

Maybe those clubs there this year feel they're in a better overall place than they would have been without DR.

 

Maybe they think that they will be more sustainable in the long term as a result of DR. They must have their reasons, as it is optional.



#45 Griff

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:56 PM

Is that your only measure of success? Someone's always got to finish towards the bottom of the table.
 
Maybe those clubs there this year feel they're in a better overall place than they would have been without DR.
 
Maybe they think that they will be more sustainable in the long term as a result of DR. They must have their reasons, as it is optional.


It's also new - so no doubt several clubs are still finding out how it works out.

Only measure of success ? Well, there are the financial implications too but, ultimately, yes - the game's about success on the field. And it seems to me that there's a good correlation between performance and the use of DR. The more you use it, the lower you tend to be in the table, the lower your attendances.

Sure - pick out a few exceptions but the facts are plain.
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#46 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:11 PM

It's also new - so no doubt several clubs are still finding out how it works out.

Only measure of success ? Well, there are the financial implications too but, ultimately, yes - the game's about success on the field. And it seems to me that there's a good correlation between performance and the use of DR. The more you use it, the lower you tend to be in the table, the lower your attendances.

Sure - pick out a few exceptions but the facts are plain.

 

Looking at the league tables over recent years, neither Hunslet or Swinton appear to have finished any higher than the bottom 3 of the top semi-pro division in recent years, so it seems bottom two doesn't look unreasonable for them. To suggest that their lowly position is due to DR seems a touch harsh. They may feel they would have been even worse off without DR.

 

I don't think DR has turned Swinton & Hunslet from top notch semi-pro clubs into strugglers. I think there might be a few other factors in their current plight!



#47 Saint Toppy

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:42 PM

Saints were one of the few SL clubs who opposed DR (another one of Heatheringtons crackpot ideas) but when it came in they chose 2 clubs to partner with in Rochdale & Whitehaven.

Unfortunaely the injury situation this year has meant that all the youngsters who were supposed to be spending extended periods at both NL clubs have been drafted straight into the Saints 1st team.

 

I'm sure Haven & Hornets would have benefitted much more had they been able to play the likes of Percival, Thompson, Greenwood, Walker & Swift every week.



#48 Griff

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:52 PM

I don't think DR has turned Swinton & Hunslet from top notch semi-pro clubs into strugglers. I think there might be a few other factors in their current plight!


I didn't say it had. But it's not helped either, has it ?
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#49 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:13 PM

I didn't say it had. But it's not helped either, has it ?

 

I don't know, but Swinton & Hunslet seem to think it has been beneficial to them. They are surely best placed to judge. If they think it has been beneficial to them, then I'd suggest they know more about what those benefits have been, than people outside the club, who I suspect have no idea what the detail of the DR has been.

 

If Hunslet & Leeds both say the DR has been of benefit, then I'd be more inclined to think that it has been of benefit to Leeds & Hunslet, than not.



#50 The Parksider

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

I don't know, but Swinton & Hunslet seem to think it has been beneficial to them. They are surely best placed to judge. If they think it has been beneficial to them, then I'd suggest they know more about what those benefits have been, than people outside the club, who I suspect have no idea what the detail of the DR has been.


The players who came in were far better than those we could afford as an independant club. early doors they helped the club to put some wins on the board. After injuries have occured at Leeds and less players are available so our performances have slipped. I'd conclude that without DR we would be lower in the league points tally than we are now. i.e. adrift and rock bottom.

In simple terms DR has made us better off but if we do drop I hope it won't be argued that DR has failed and if only we had sought our own players (when no great quality is available)and signed them up (when there's no money to do so) we would have been OK.

#51 Griff

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:19 PM

Other clubs using DR doesn't really bother me. I've said from its introduction that there'd be no significant effect on the league table and I've seen nothing to change my mind.
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#52 thundergaz

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 07:23 PM

Other clubs using DR doesn't really bother me. I've said from its introduction that there'd be no significant effect on the league table and I've seen nothing to change my mind.


True it hasn't effected the top end of the table. But it will/is effecting the relegation battle. Its all about who as the best DR players available to play for them when they play the teams around them. The DR system will decide who stays up and who doesn't at the end of the season.

#53 keighley

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:03 AM

Sigh, how about we just stick to the facts and what we now HAS happened, rather than what MIGHT happen eh. You really are desperate to show everything DR in a bad light, know matter how pathetic you look.

 

Really. Parksider has commented on Hunslet's current plight in a relegation spot being due, in part, to Leeds recalling players from Hunslet as the Rhinos injury list worsened.

 

I think it is highly possible of not probable that the same situation might arise between Town and Widnes.

 

Just because you get all melodramatic e.g. " Sigh" and start throwing words like ' pathetic" at me doesn't change the fact that the outcome I have suggested is a likely possibility.



#54 keighley

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:13 AM

 Is that your only measure of success? Someone's always got to finish towards the bottom of the table.

 

Maybe those clubs there this year feel they're in a better overall place than they would have been without DR.

 

Maybe they think that they will be more sustainable in the long term as a result of DR. They must have their reasons, as it is optional.

 

 

Hunslet won CC! and then stayed up without DR. With it they seem about to be relegated. The exact same thing seems to be taking place at Swinton. Keighley are doing much better since abandoning DR than they were doing with it.

 

These clubs all are or were not in a better place because of DR. All the independents with the exception of Barrow are doing extremely well. Whatever reasons they had for entering these DR arrangements, I think they have not been as successful or positive as they might have wished for.



#55 keighley

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:24 AM

Looking at the league tables over recent years, neither Hunslet or Swinton appear to have finished any higher than the bottom 3 of the top semi-pro division in recent years, so it seems bottom two doesn't look unreasonable for them. To suggest that their lowly position is due to DR seems a touch harsh. They may feel they would have been even worse off without DR.

 

I don't think DR has turned Swinton & Hunslet from top notch semi-pro clubs into strugglers. I think there might be a few other factors in their current plight!

 

Both won CC in a canter and then survived in the Championship. Any reasonable person, me included, would have expected them to be much better and pushing for the payoffs and making them comfortably with the addition of numerous SL standard players to their rosters, even if hey were juniors they should have provided a major boost to the playing fortunes of the two clubs.This has not proved to be the case. Why is it harsh to suggest that the lowly positon is due to the DR players. there seems to be no other explanation.

 

it seems that the DR experiment has been a plus to the SL half of the partnership and a negative to the fortunes of the lower tier team.



#56 keighley

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:32 AM

I don't know, but Swinton & Hunslet seem to think it has been beneficial to them. They are surely best placed to judge. If they think it has been beneficial to them, then I'd suggest they know more about what those benefits have been, than people outside the club, who I suspect have no idea what the detail of the DR has been.

 

If Hunslet & Leeds both say the DR has been of benefit, then I'd be more inclined to think that it has been of benefit to Leeds & Hunslet, than not.

 

It's definitely been a benefit to Leeds saving them from the costs of running a reserve team and having a place to play players surplus to requirements and a place to rehabilitate and wean back injured first teamers.

 

For Hunslet, it's leading to the league of death and if relegation is such a good thing then what has the debate been about for these many years.



#57 keighley

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:43 AM

The players who came in were far better than those we could afford as an independant club. early doors they helped the club to put some wins on the board. After injuries have occured at Leeds and less players are available so our performances have slipped. I'd conclude that without DR we would be lower in the league points tally than we are now. i.e. adrift and rock bottom.

In simple terms DR has made us better off but if we do drop I hope it won't be argued that DR has failed and if only we had sought our own players (when no great quality is available)and signed them up (when there's no money to do so) we would have been OK.

 

AS opposed to adrift and next to bottom.. Not so much of a massive benefit from DR there then. I remember you getting quite giddy about your results and league position early doors. I don't think you were bigging up the positives of relegation as one of the benefits to be derived from the massive influx of top  level DR players at that point. 

 

I said that these arrangements were a one way street and that all the advantages were in favour of the SL team and that the minute the SL team needed to prop their first team up the lower tier team would be thrown to the wolves without a second thought and so it has proved to be.



#58 Griff

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 06:50 AM

What I find particularly embarrassing for the game is players being signed by Championship clubs the being loaned or even sold by a "totally unconnected" club.

Surely there's some element of fraud here - maybe the police should be involved.
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#59 Ramite

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 06:59 AM

Care to expand on that Griff ?
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#60 The Parksider

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 08:20 AM

I said that these arrangements were a one way street and that all the advantages were in favour of the SL team and that the minute the SL team needed to prop their first team up the lower tier team would be thrown to the wolves without a second thought and so it has proved to be.

 

The championship beggars could not be choosers though. At least the SL clubs have saved a lot of money in terms of their player development system, important when SL is £8M a year in the red.

 

The skint championship clubs have also saved money not having to pay money to as many semi pros. The CC fans have seen some quality players at their games, both important as CC clubs are struggling for money and interest in their games.

 

the alternative to DR would have cost the game hundreds of thousands of pounds it can ill afford and reduced the quality of failing CC clubs further, so it may have been unpalletable to many but it's ben a good thing in the circumstances. Of course we want all clubs to be independant but the game is struggling and has needed this crutch. That's why they all agreed to it.






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