Jump to content


Rugby League World - Grand Finals Issue

RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD - THE GRAND FINALS ISSUE - OUT 17 OCT OR DOWNLOAD IT NOW!
Try our Fantastic 4-Issue Bundle Offer:
For just £14, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:

The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final drama from both hemispheres plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

time to close on the C/Cup?


  • Please log in to reply
114 replies to this topic

#81 Gav Wilson

Gav Wilson
  • Coach
  • 3,306 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:49 PM

Poor old Chris Irvine lambasted for daring to tell it as he saw it!!!

The party line must be followed at all costs.........what, so whatever you do never speak your mind and alway's follow the party line.

Sorry but no, I believe that the C/Cup will do more harm than good if continued with in its present form. I accept the cash argument that is irrefutable, but, the ###### that is involved within the games shown on terrestrial TV will over time put more would be new supporters off the game rather than the opposite occuring, in my opinion and I do not want to see that happen to R/L, so I maintain that the maneer this competition is structured requires some drstic change as to be frank, these were the worst quarter finals that I have watched in two thirds of s century watching the CC, Chris Irvine obviously feels the same.

 

The whole sport is just turning in to one big RL meltdown isn't it?


Posted Image

#82 Just Browny

Just Browny
  • Coach
  • 11,791 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:58 PM

If, 'God forbid', Hull and London do win their respective semifinals, I'll hazard a guess that they'll both have deserved it and we'll have seen two terrific semis. Whether the final would be as good is yet another question, but there's no reason to suggest it wouldn't be a good game between London, the underdog team whose existence is less than clear, versus Hull FC - perennial Wembley-phobes. What would there be not to like?

Just what the hell is wrong with RL fans?

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#83 Johnoco

Johnoco
  • Coach
  • 20,118 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:15 PM

Poor old Chris Irvine lambasted for daring to tell it as he saw it!!!

The party line must be followed at all costs.........what, so whatever you do never speak your mind and alway's follow the party line.

Sorry but no, I believe that the C/Cup will do more harm than good if continued with in its present form. I accept the cash argument that is irrefutable, but, the ###### that is involved within the games shown on terrestrial TV will over time put more would be new supporters off the game rather than the opposite occuring, in my opinion and I do not want to see that happen to R/L, so I maintain that the maneer this competition is structured requires some drstic change as to be frank, these were the worst quarter finals that I have watched in two thirds of s century watching the CC, Chris Irvine obviously feels the same.

Cobblers. It isn't about towing any line at all but all CI ever does on twitter regarding RL is comment how terrible everything is. The only thing I have seen him talk up is darts and speedway - and he somehow managed to get a pop in at RL too. If he doesn't enjoy it anymore, then that's up to him but this ceaseless wittering about how poor everything is, is actually pretty boring in itself.

#84 zorquif

zorquif
  • Coach
  • 1,576 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:20 PM

Is that going to become a latter day godwin's rule?

#85 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 15,177 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:35 PM

What I find baffling is that I can enjoy something but be accused of being dishonest or toeing the line.

 

Maybe this is how it feels to be a RU fan on here!



#86 RSN

RSN
  • Coach
  • 4,203 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:48 PM

The quarter finals weren't of a high standard, that means we should scrap the cup? That's mental.

Let's compare to the FA cup. United v Chelsea 2 - 2 first game was a good game which went to a replay. The other 3 were awful. A 0 - 0 draw between Milwall and Blackburn both poor Championship clubs which went to a replay. Wigan thrashed Everton 3 - 0 who looked like they couldn't be bothered and City walked over Championship opposition Barnsley 5 - 0. So probably a worse quarter final stage than RLs apart from the first game mentioned. Do football fans go round slagging the cup off saying it should be scrapped? No they hype it up and praise it to get people to watch. Maybe RL should take note.

I don't get why you would want to scrap the cup because of the way it has panned out this season. I've enjoyed it thoroughly. The most likely outcome is Wigan and Wire the best two sides in England are going to play eachother infront of near 80,000 people at Wembley with hundreds of thousands people watching the very best our sport has to offer over the sports most historic trophy.

Why would you want to get rid of that.

#87 gingerjon

gingerjon
  • Coach
  • 29,299 posts

Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:56 AM

If, 'God forbid', Hull and London do win their respective semifinals, I'll hazard a guess that they'll both have deserved it and we'll have seen two terrific semis. Whether the final would be as good is yet another question, but there's no reason to suggest it wouldn't be a good game between London, the underdog team whose existence is less than clear, versus Hull FC - perennial Wembley-phobes. What would there be not to like?

Just what the hell is wrong with RL fans?

If London and Hull do win their semi finals then that would probably be the most incredible set of semi final results I can remember.  When was the last time *two* underdogs got through to Wembley?

 

Utter farce of course.  It would destroy the game.  I'm off to watch the snooker.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#88 archibald

archibald
  • Coach
  • 646 posts

Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:01 AM

 

WELL SAID THAT MAN YOU STOOD UP TO THE TALIBAN:)
 
CM


How's the case against Just Browny going?

#89 Amber Avenger

Amber Avenger
  • Coach
  • 5,778 posts

Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:52 AM

I don't know why people are neccesarily complaining about the quarter final draw - when it was made you could have argued that it was one of the better combinations of fixtures considering the teams available. Every one had the ability to be a closely contested match. Even in Sheffield/London and Wigan/Widnes, there was enough there to suggest there was a chance of an upset at both. Just because some teams didn't perform at their best doesn't mean the comp is rotten though


SQL Honours
Play off mini league winner - 2002. Bronze Medalist - 2003. Big Split Group Winner - 2006. Minor Stupidship - 2005, 2006. Cup Silver Medalist - 2008, 2009
CHAMPION - 2005, 2009, 2010

#90 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 20,341 posts

Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:30 AM

It's what many have wanted,...cup semis on free to air TV. The consequence is that many will then watch it on free to air TV with a concomitant reduction in attendances.

 

In addition, I understand that some fans may want to travel by rail, but I suggest that the vast majority of Wigan and London fans will still travel by car.

 

Once again the the RFL is condemned if it does, condemned if it don't by the Mujahideen



#91 Futtocks

Futtocks
  • Coach
  • 20,864 posts

Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:54 AM


The party line must be followed at all costs.........what, so whatever you do never speak your mind and alway's follow the party line.

I speak my own mind. If I mindlessly parroted the most repeatedly expressed opinion, I'd be bewailing all aspects of the game and calling for everything and anything to be scrapped, just because we had a few substandard matches in the Cup. 

 

As for his 'Taliban' comment, CM is becoming more of an offensive joke every day. And that's without his imaginary friends that mysteriously know all the FACTS about EVERYTHING and they're all BAD NEWS. It's like having League Freak back, only not as funny.


  • dhw likes this

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#92 Cumbrian Fanatic

Cumbrian Fanatic
  • Coach
  • 613 posts

Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:48 AM

 

The quarter finals weren't of a high standard, that means we should scrap the cup? That's mental.

Let's compare to the FA cup. United v Chelsea 2 - 2 first game was a good game which went to a replay. The other 3 were awful. A 0 - 0 draw between Milwall and Blackburn both poor Championship clubs which went to a replay. Wigan thrashed Everton 3 - 0 who looked like they couldn't be bothered and City walked over Championship opposition Barnsley 5 - 0. So probably a worse quarter final stage than RLs apart from the first game mentioned. Do football fans go round slagging the cup off saying it should be scrapped? No they hype it up and praise it to get people to watch. Maybe RL should take note.
I don't get why you would want to scrap the cup because of the way it has panned out this season. I've enjoyed it thoroughly. The most likely outcome is Wigan and Wire the best two sides in England are going to play eachother infront of near 80,000 people at Wembley with hundreds of thousands people watching the very best our sport has to offer over the sports most historic trophy.

Why would you want to get rid of that.


Couldn't agree more.

On a personnel note, one of the best weekends of the year where I get to catch up with friends from all over the country would be lost.
100% League 0% Union

Just because I don't know doesn't mean I don't understand

#93 dhw

dhw
  • Coach
  • 674 posts

Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:00 PM

The quarter finals weren't of a high standard, that means we should scrap the cup? That's mental.

Let's compare to the FA cup. United v Chelsea 2 - 2 first game was a good game which went to a replay. The other 3 were awful. A 0 - 0 draw between Milwall and Blackburn both poor Championship clubs which went to a replay. Wigan thrashed Everton 3 - 0 who looked like they couldn't be bothered and City walked over Championship opposition Barnsley 5 - 0. So probably a worse quarter final stage than RLs apart from the first game mentioned. Do football fans go round slagging the cup off saying it should be scrapped? No they hype it up and praise it to get people to watch. Maybe RL should take note.

I don't get why you would want to scrap the cup because of the way it has panned out this season. I've enjoyed it thoroughly. The most likely outcome is Wigan and Wire the best two sides in England are going to play eachother infront of near 80,000 people at Wembley with hundreds of thousands people watching the very best our sport has to offer over the sports most historic trophy.

Why would you want to get rid of that.

 

I am certain the vast majority of people who went to the 1/4 finals matches or watched the televised games enjoyed them a great deal (even the ones who are complaining a great deal). People enjoy games for a number of reasons and some will find any reason to complain. How many of those who compalined about a given match follow teams not involved in the matches?

 

With regard to football fans and the FA Cup, nobody I am aware of in the UK complains and denigrates more the football fans. They certainly do not hype up the game (it rarely happen in any sport when it is dross). There have certainly been plaenty of calls from certain groups of fans in the past for scrapping the the FA Cup. Any neutral listening to any football phone in show would be likely be put off by the sheer negativity and pettiness shown.

 

Many reasons have been given for retaining the CC yet scrapping it would take away so much spirit from the game and the CC final hgas a totally different atmosphere to the  the GF. The Australians would love to have a competition with so much tradition and history.



#94 John Drake

John Drake
  • Admin
  • 7,696 posts

Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:23 PM

Those two final sentences are what I referred to as, the same old, same old previously. I am not a negative person over R/L at all, but I am one that will spell out what I see in front of me and as I saw it over this weekend that was not good sport never mind good R/L. 

 

I do not refer to these games alone when criticising the C/Cup but over at least the past three or more seasons of that comp. The final apart and, in all honesty the ones within the last 4 or 5 of those that are memorable for the expected showpiece that would be expected from any final generally has hardly stuck in the memory either. 

No even as you say concerning Wembley and the aura it can generate this C/Cup comp has produced very few thrilling games within its entirety and it is becoming one of those must attend events rather than what in the past almost always had the previous build up of close competitive matches to recall from the earlier rounds, today , well tell me of one, if you can John.

 

With luck we should get a decent final if Wigan and Warrington contest it, if the previous games they have played so far in S/L this season are anything to go by, but god forbid if the miracle occurs that London beat Wigan and hull turn over Warrington, I can assure you that will not yet again produce anything like the same spectacle and I suspect that you too know it.  

 

Part of your opening gambit in this thread was this:

 

"I apologise for this rant but in all honesty this CC competition is doing far more harm than good for the Game of Rugby League and I am more certain than ever that it has by far surpassed it's sell-by date and should be taken from the shelves."

 

To me, that reads that you want the Challenge Cup scrapped. Done away with. Consigned to the dustbin.

 

Not reformed, revamped or refreshed in any way, which would be a valuable and constructive debate to have on here and which you could have started, but binned altogether, on the back of a few average games, totally ignoring any of the positive elements the tournament has in its favour in terms of sponsorship, large terrestrial TV audiences and regularly the biggest domestic attendance of the entire season in our capital city of London.

 

I think if you got what you wanted, as described in your opening post, our sport would be immeasurably poorer, not only in terms of defecating on its own history but in real financial terms too, and I don't think that could ever be recouped elsewhere.

 

I'm not arguing that the structure of the Challenge Cup is perfect, or that every game has me hanging on the edge of my seat in breathless excitement, but then neither does any sporting competition anywhere in the world. They all produce the occasional dud, but only in this sport, it seems to me, do we have people actually advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater and calling for an entire tournament with over 100 years of rich history to be scrapped because they got a bit bored watching some of the games.

 

It does my head in!


John Drake
Site Admin: TotalRL.com
TotalRL.com
Email: john.drake@totalrl.com


#95 petero

petero
  • Coach
  • 2,833 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:32 PM

The quarter finals weren't of a high standard, that means we should scrap the cup? That's mental.

Let's compare to the FA cup. United v Chelsea 2 - 2 first game was a good game which went to a replay. The other 3 were awful. A 0 - 0 draw between Milwall and Blackburn both poor Championship clubs which went to a replay. Wigan thrashed Everton 3 - 0 who looked like they couldn't be bothered and City walked over Championship opposition Barnsley 5 - 0. So probably a worse quarter final stage than RLs apart from the first game mentioned. Do football fans go round slagging the cup off saying it should be scrapped? No they hype it up and praise it to get people to watch. Maybe RL should take note.

I don't get why you would want to scrap the cup because of the way it has panned out this season. I've enjoyed it thoroughly. The most likely outcome is Wigan and Wire the best two sides in England are going to play eachother infront of near 80,000 people at Wembley with hundreds of thousands people watching the very best our sport has to offer over the sports most historic trophy.

Why would you want to get rid of that.

Last line; first answer:  I have already stated that, " that game should and almost certainly will, produce a very good and exciting match ". I hope you are taking note of that answer fully?

 

I have also said ( which you choose to overlook as well) that although these were the poorest quarter finals I have watched for a very long time, that the entire competition apart from the Leeds V Huddersfield game possibly, has been poor to excruciating in the mediocrity of the games being played.

In actual fact I did say that has also been the case for sometime past where the C/Cup is concerned in my opinion. 

 

The finals in recent years have apart from for the fans whose team has won, hardly been memorable with only the Wigan V Leeds one really having had any competitive element about it.

 

Finally; as for making comparisons with football or onion I do not give a jot about, as I never watch either and cannot give any sort of opinion on something that I have no interest in or know not a damn thing about. 

Why ever when anyone has a view regarding aspects of R/L that do not fall in with mainstream psychophancy, people have to bring in such comparisons simply quite amazes me as they have absolutely no relevence to the matter being discussed.. 



#96 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 15,177 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:39 PM

Petero, either you don't really enjoy RL, or your memory is failing you.

 

I defy anyone to say they didn't enjoy these Cup TV games:

 

2013:

Leeds v Hudds

Hull KR v Saints

 

2012:

Widnes v Saints (finishes 38v40)

Featherstone v Castleford

Featherstone v Wigan

Wigan v Saints

Catalan v Warrington

Leeds v Wigan

 

2011:

Wigan v Leeds

Wigan v Saints

Cas v Leeds (extra time Semi Final)

Warrington v Wigan

Hull v Leeds

 

These are just from looking at a quick list of fixtures on Wikipedia - the Challenge Cup has provided some brilliant entertainment over the last few years - did you watch any of the above games?



#97 Gav Wilson

Gav Wilson
  • Coach
  • 3,306 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:47 PM

I have also said ( which you choose to overlook as well) that although these were the poorest quarter finals I have watched for a very long time, that the entire competition apart from the Leeds V Huddersfield game possibly, has been poor to excruciating in the mediocrity of the games being played.

 

You've seen every game played in this year's Challenge Cup? When exactly did you master the art of time travel?

 

Top commitment to prove a point though Bro. Good work.

 

I can't believe you thought Blackbrook v York was boring, or York v Toulouse.


Posted Image

#98 Saint Toppy

Saint Toppy
  • Coach
  • 2,656 posts

Posted 19 July 2013 - 07:22 AM

I think the cup has lost some of its magic but no one really knows why.

There's always been blowout games in cups, and probably always will be so i'm not sure this is the reason the fans have lost interest.

 

Only getting 70K for the final in my opinion is poor when you consider in the 80s & 90s the game was selling out with regular crowds of 95-98K. I've been to early round ties where Saints V Wigan would draw 20K plus crowds, similar for several of the yorkshire derbies, these days they struggle to get 15K for semi-finals even with 2 top teams.

 

I do think the game needs to have a look at the cup and come up with some sort of revamp and find ways of bringing the crowds back in.



#99 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 15,177 posts

Posted 19 July 2013 - 07:24 PM

I think the cup has lost some of its magic but no one really knows why.

There's always been blowout games in cups, and probably always will be so i'm not sure this is the reason the fans have lost interest.

 

Only getting 70K for the final in my opinion is poor when you consider in the 80s & 90s the game was selling out with regular crowds of 95-98K. I've been to early round ties where Saints V Wigan would draw 20K plus crowds, similar for several of the yorkshire derbies, these days they struggle to get 15K for semi-finals even with 2 top teams.

 

I do think the game needs to have a look at the cup and come up with some sort of revamp and find ways of bringing the crowds back in.

With all due respect Toppy, imho it's fans like you who cause issues within the game.

 

If you feel so strongly about this,check your stats.

 

We didn't have 'regular 95-98k' crowds in the 80's and 90's - in fact the capacity was 78k for much of this period.  Also - when have the crowds been 70k recently (apart from Twickenham, which doesn't count at all!)?

 

I remember crowds in the 90's v Wigan when Wire played in the cup and we had around 7k, so we can always use selective stats to support a point.

 

People repeating dodgy stats as fact causes issues for our game imho,.



#100 Ponterover

Ponterover
  • Coach
  • 1,786 posts

Posted 19 July 2013 - 07:54 PM

The only DODGY STATS are the crowd figures from THE RFL:((((

 

Congratulations, you just made it on to RL Meltdown


Edited by Ponterover, 19 July 2013 - 07:55 PM.