Jump to content


Rugby League World Issue 402

Try our Fantastic 5-Issue Bundle Offer! For just £18, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:
The Play-offs Issue - pictured (out 12 Sept) – Covering the climax of the Super League & Championship seasons
The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final excitement from both sides of the world plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Broncos


  • Please log in to reply
139 replies to this topic

#61 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,402 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:13 PM

I think Mark Evans the Chief Executive of Harlequins Rugby Union said that if Rugby League couldn't work at the Stoop with the Harlequins brand then it wasn't going to be able to work in London at all.

I would have to agree that the Harlequins association was a massive opportunity missed. The Quins brand is very strong and has immediate recognition from the wider sporting public in London and the South.

The RFL and Super League should have shown some vision and ensured that Harlequins were given financial advantages so they could compete at the top of the game. A club called Harlequins with a team full of internationals and getting to the later stages of the Challenge Cup and Super League play offs would have been big news and attracted lots of media attention. Like the Melbourne Storm are in Australia.

The lack of vision shown by the Super League clubs and the RFL with London has been desperately sad.

 

 How's it working at the moment with the Broncos in the Cc semi finals?



#62 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,402 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:20 PM

they would if the broncos were a yorkshire club.........

 

Ask the Cougars what intervention from the RFL they received in their SL bid. Ask Wakefield what help they got? It was only the old boys club Bulls that got help and even they were deducted half their Sky money. Really !!! 



#63 foozler

foozler
  • Coach
  • 970 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:23 PM

The Harelquins thing was never going to work. Too many obstacles and not helped by the fact that the man behind it all, Ian Lenegan, left soon after to buy Wigan. Besides, I'm certain that if Quins RL had won SL or the Challenge Cup then people reading the headlines in the paper or watching the news reports would have seen the name 'Harlequins' and assumed it was rugby union. I'm convinced of it.

 

All that said, none of that would have mattered if we'd had decent management in place. The club has been diabolically run for 5 or 6 years now. To the point that even diehards have stopped going.

 

If there is one RU club that is quintessentially RU, and is the historic establishment club of English RU, it is Harlequins. For this reason I agree that the Quins tie up was always going to be a very difficult one for RL. That doesn't mean it couldn't have been successful but the odds were stacked against it.

 

But the Broncos really didn't help themselves by appointing Rob Powell as head coach, and then hanging on to him when it was quite clear he wasn't up to the job. I am pleased that Noble is back in the game at Salford and he will definitely have a very competitive side from next year, even though it may not play the most "box office" rugby in the league. Nobby would have done a great job in London and I am sure there are a number of other top quality coaches, British or otherwise, who could have done a good job in London and had a winning team running onto the paddock every week.

 

Which is ultimately what is needed at a sports club if you want punters through the turnstyles week after week.


Edited by foozler, 18 July 2013 - 02:25 PM.


#64 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,402 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:26 PM

Indeed. I don't go with the "marketing" thing. Getting a professional level paying crowd where there's no culture of RL is tough even in places like Sheffield Liverpool & Manchester. Getting a crowd at a losing club is difficult even where the RL culture goes back 150 years.

 

Effective marketing costs big money. Bigger for London than Leeds.

 

If the game feels the slowly emerging RL culture and the player production line that comes from it is worth subsidising the pro club then get on with it. If they feel it's not or there isn't the will/money then abandon them to their own fate and let's have done.

 

Looks like the latter is the way it's going

 

 And if you look at numerous examples in the heartlands, and the current Welsh clubs, The Gateshead senior club and the amateur scene in the North east, the whole French game, you will notice that rugby league is an extremely tenacious tree and once it has roots will survive no matter what.

 

I suspect that London is no different and that RL in London could well survive the demotion or even the demise of the Broncos.



#65 foozler

foozler
  • Coach
  • 970 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:29 PM

Ask the Cougars what intervention from the RFL they received in their SL bid. Ask Wakefield what help they got? It was only the old boys club Bulls that got help and even they were deducted half their Sky money. Really !!! 

 

I think the reaction to the Bulls situation was driven more by a fear factor at Red Hall. 

 

The fear of what the wider reaction would have been if one of the best known Super League clubs had gone under, specifically that of the overdraft/ loan facility managers of the other SL clubs.

 

Rightly or wrongly with hindsight, they were keen to avoid a chain reaction.



#66 GeordieSaint

GeordieSaint
  • Coach
  • 4,814 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:31 PM

The Bronocs have been around for the said 30 years. How long are they going to take to be self sustaining?

 

Many clubs have been around for a 100 years and are not self sustaining. Why pick on the Broncos?


Kings Lynn Black Knights Rugby League Club - http://www.pitchero....nnblackknights/


#67 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,496 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:34 PM

You could say the same about the North east who have made phenomenal strides in developing RL and so claim support for Gateshead or Wales, both north and South and so claim support there.

 

Gateshead, for instance, at the time they were thrown under the bus as a SL team where drawing more than London currently draw and that was after only one season, not 30.

 

Crusaders are drawing 8oo to a 1000 in CC1 about a third to a half as many as London are pulling in in SL.

 

When will the Broncos be considered a heartland team and be on a par with everybody else.? The amateur game in London is strong and well established, The Bronocs have been around for the said 30 years. How long are they going to take to be self sustaining.?

 

A London presence is desirable but at what cost. Might the game be better served by The Skolars and Hemel and a lower tier broncos if necessary.

 

the preferential treatment routine for a SL Broncos is getting old.

 

Just a few thoughts...

When will the Broncos be considered a heartland team and be on a par with everybody else.?

 

I suppose when London is considered part of the rugby league heartlands. What is the population of London these days? 8 million? I think I worked out once that the combined population of the northern local authorities that make up the traditionally recognised RL heartlands - M62-land and Cumbria - was just over 5 million. So, how about London qualifies as a heartland areas when it has numerous pro clubs and a couple of dozen part-time clubs (with, say, half a dozen well-structured amateur clubs in each borough). Plus the associated strength in terms of coaching, volunteers, spectator support, local news coverage, etc.

Or, to aim a little lower, could we accept London as being a heartland when it reaches the strength in the south of France?

 

The amateur game in London is strong and well established?

Is it? I've always thought it was pretty fragile to be honest, especially when two of what were considered to be among its strongest clubs - South London Storm and West London Sharks(?) - collapsed.

The Bronocs have been around for the said 30 years. How long are they going to take to be self sustaining.?

That really depends on building the wider RL community in London that is able to sustain it.


"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#68 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,496 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:35 PM

Ask the Cougars what intervention from the RFL they received in their SL bid. Ask Wakefield what help they got? It was only the old boys club Bulls that got help and even they were deducted half their Sky money. Really !!! 

 

When did Keighley make a bid for Super League?


"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#69 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,402 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:38 PM

I've read similar things before, but what preferential treatment have London Broncos/Harlequins RL/Broncos received?

 

I was replying to the post from widnes Viking who stated that London should be given every assistance to survive. Broncos were also the beneficiaries of hugely preferential treatment when they were on marginal gates at Chiswick or somewhere, did not finish in a promotion spot but were nevertheless given a SL spot at the expense of Widnes, Featherstone. Keighley or Batley, take your pick. 

 

They also susbsequently went bust and were given further preferential treatment, supported strongly by Richard Lewis, the RFL supremo, to circumvent bankrupcy and maintain their SL place.

 

They received an exemption on the number of overseas players they could sign for decades.

 

Exactly what would you class as preferential treatment if those examples do not qualify ?



#70 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,402 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:03 PM

When did Keighley make a bid for Super League?

 

Let's not rehash this at any length as it's been the subject of several very long threads but they won the 1st Division when p and r was on the table at the start of the season only to have p and r removed as an option mid season. The Cougars should have been in the first SL, well ahead of the Broncos who had nowhere near the same support, quality of team, marketing operation and to boot did not finish in a promotion spot. the other spot went to Batley who were also shafted along with Fev and Widnes who did nolt finish in relegation spots but were booted anyway.



#71 Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior
  • Coach
  • 5,130 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:48 PM

Ask the Cougars what intervention from the RFL they received in their SL bid. Ask Wakefield what help they got? It was only the old boys club Bulls that got help and even they were deducted half their Sky money. Really !!!



do the rfl still own the lease to lawkholme lane??
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



https://scontent-a-l...276002364_n.jpg

#72 hoff

hoff
  • Coach
  • 160 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:51 PM

Does anyine think theres a chance they could be headed to Brisbane road ? As an Orient fan i'm a bit biased however there could be a potential link up with Barry Hearne who i'm sure could drum up some serious publicity

#73 Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior
  • Coach
  • 5,130 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:52 PM

I was replying to the post from widnes Viking who stated that London should be given every assistance to survive. Broncos were also the beneficiaries of hugely preferential treatment when they were on marginal gates at Chiswick or somewhere, did not finish in a promotion spot but were nevertheless given a SL spot at the expense of Widnes, Featherstone. Keighley or Batley, take your pick. 
 
They also susbsequently went bust and were given further preferential treatment, supported strongly by Richard Lewis, the RFL supremo, to circumvent bankrupcy and maintain their SL place.
 
They received an exemption on the number of overseas players they could sign for decades.
 
Exactly what would you class as preferential treatment if those examples do not qualify ?



london were brought into super league to expand the game away from the heartlands, and were already a club in their own right. my gripe at the time was the created club paris sg. and please get the user name right it is VIKING WARRIOR..........
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



https://scontent-a-l...276002364_n.jpg

#74 South Wakefield Sharks

South Wakefield Sharks
  • Coach
  • 2,202 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:53 PM

If there is one RU club that is quintessentially RU, and is the historic establishment club of English RU, it is Harlequins. For this reason I agree that the Quins tie up was always going to be a very difficult one for RL. That doesn't mean it couldn't have been successful but the odds were stacked against it.

 

But the Broncos really didn't help themselves by appointing Rob Powell as head coach, and then hanging on to him when it was quite clear he wasn't up to the job. I am pleased that Noble is back in the game at Salford and he will definitely have a very competitive side from next year, even though it may not play the most "box office" rugby in the league. Nobby would have done a great job in London and I am sure there are a number of other top quality coaches, British or otherwise, who could have done a good job in London and had a winning team running onto the paddock every week.

 

Which is ultimately what is needed at a sports club if you want punters through the turnstyles week after week.

 

Spot on. Powell was a disaster for the Broncos and Noble, though very dull would have been good for them. New management required.


Edited by South Wakefield Sharks, 18 July 2013 - 04:53 PM.


#75 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,402 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:56 PM

do the rfl still own the lease to lawkholme lane??

 

I think they proably do but I am open to correction on that.

 

However, this is the RFL assisting Keighley to survive following their bankruoptcy, not assisting them in a SL bid. In fact, the RFL  went out of their way to scupper the Cougar's SL aspirations. Not only did they abolish promotion halway through a season when it was in place at the beginning of the said season but they also, again halfway through the same season, introduced miminum standards for grounds which Cougar Park/ Lawkholme Lane did not meet thus leading to the ludicrous suggestion to share with Burnley AFC.

 

Such as Bradford and Castleford were given SL licences and a grace period to bring their grounds up to scratch. No such courtesy was afforded to the Cougars.



#76 EastLondonMike

EastLondonMike
  • Coach
  • 4,188 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:10 PM

Barry Hearne who i'm sure could drum up some serious publicity

 

 

Agreed.. but i think for Hearn to be involved he'd have to own the club outright. His ego wouldn't allow anything else.


Newham Dockers - Champions 2013. Rugby League For East London. 100% Cockney Rugby League!

Twitter: @NewhamDockersRL - Get following!

www.newhamdockers.co.uk


#77 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,402 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:14 PM

Just a few thoughts...

When will the Broncos be considered a heartland team and be on a par with everybody else.?

 

I suppose when London is considered part of the rugby league heartlands. What is the population of London these days? 8 million? I think I worked out once that the combined population of the northern local authorities that make up the traditionally recognised RL heartlands - M62-land and Cumbria - was just over 5 million. So, how about London qualifies as a heartland areas when it has numerous pro clubs and a couple of dozen part-time clubs (with, say, half a dozen well-structured amateur clubs in each borough). Plus the associated strength in terms of coaching, volunteers, spectator support, local news coverage, etc.

Or, to aim a little lower, could we accept London as being a heartland when it reaches the strength in the south of France?

 

The amateur game in London is strong and well established?

Is it? I've always thought it was pretty fragile to be honest, especially when two of what were considered to be among its strongest clubs - South London Storm and West London Sharks(?) - collapsed.

The Bronocs have been around for the said 30 years. How long are they going to take to be self sustaining.?

That really depends on building the wider RL community in London that is able to sustain it.

 

 It is interesting that you lump the M62 heartlands together with the Cumbrian heartlands to better suit your argument. If you consider that Cumbria is far removed from the M62 and is a seperate heartland in it's own right, and then compare it with London, what do you get.

 

Three part time clubs as against London's two part time clubs and one SL club.

 

Both areas have a thriving amateur game. Despite the demise of South London and West London ( by the way havn't they both reformed as a joint entity), there are numerous amateur, junior and even some college teams and prison teams in London.

 

So I think that London is as much a heartland team as is Cumbria and no one is helping them out by special funding and preferential treatment.

 

How long is long enough. i think Brancos have been a relatively stable club for several years which is more than can be said for Whitehaven and Barrow both of whom have gone bankrupt recently.

 

Also both Haven and Town are post WW11 clubs. No hundred year history there.  it's time the Broncos stood on their own two feet. i wish them well but they have no more divine right to assistance than many of the other RL areas. What assitance are the two Welsh clubs receiving. isn't Wales considered crucial in the pursuit of RL expansion.

 

London are not so much more deserving just because it is the capital.

 

Oh and, by the way, London dwarfs Cumbria in terms of population.



#78 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,402 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:21 PM

london were brought into super league to expand the game away from the heartlands, and were already a club in their own right. my gripe at the time was the created club paris sg. and please get the user name right it is VIKING WARRIOR..........

 

My apologies on the misquoting of your user name. Indeed Paris were another contrived disaster. 

 

However, the point was not why London were brought into SL but whether or not they received preferential treatment. They most surely did.



#79 hoff

hoff
  • Coach
  • 160 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:28 PM

Agreed.. but i think for Hearn to be involved he'd have to own the club outright. His ego wouldn't allow anything else.


Very true, I could just imagine him "doing a PDC" with Koukash and setting up his own Rugby League Organisation complete with no salary caps and brashy boxing style entrance music for the teams as they emerge from the tunnel :)

#80 nadera78

nadera78
  • Coach
  • 2,956 posts

Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:58 PM

 It is interesting that you lump the M62 heartlands together with the Cumbrian heartlands to better suit your argument. If you consider that Cumbria is far removed from the M62 and is a seperate heartland in it's own right, and then compare it with London, what do you get.

 

Three part time clubs as against London's two part time clubs and one SL club.

 

Both areas have a thriving amateur game. Despite the demise of South London and West London ( by the way havn't they both reformed as a joint entity), there are numerous amateur, junior and even some college teams and prison teams in London.

 

So I think that London is as much a heartland team as is Cumbria and no one is helping them out by special funding and preferential treatment.

 

How long is long enough. i think Brancos have been a relatively stable club for several years which is more than can be said for Whitehaven and Barrow both of whom have gone bankrupt recently.

 

Also both Haven and Town are post WW11 clubs. No hundred year history there.  it's time the Broncos stood on their own two feet. i wish them well but they have no more divine right to assistance than many of the other RL areas. What assitance are the two Welsh clubs receiving. isn't Wales considered crucial in the pursuit of RL expansion.

 

London are not so much more deserving just because it is the capital.

 

Oh and, by the way, London dwarfs Cumbria in terms of population.

Wow. 

 

London should be considered as much a part of the heartland as Cumbria? I don't even know where to start with that nonsense.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users