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Big Showdown next week


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#21 roughyed34

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 12:47 PM

goggledd, if you want to contact the club try janetorlfc@btconnect.com. That should sort you mate. See you at the game.



#22 gogledd

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:22 PM

goggledd, if you want to contact the club try janetorlfc@btconnect.com. That should sort you mate. See you at the game.

Thanks.  See you there



#23 gogledd

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:03 PM

Got to disagree in part on this with you, for one no matter which division you are in we have the best entertaining product in sport, and some of the most entertaining games are played in the lower leagues, two its the job of the RFL to market the sport but their only interest is Super League.

 

The RFL have ruined the game by the neglect and inadequate funding to the clubs in the lower leagues, the withdrawal of promotion and relegation from Super League (which they have now realised) and the introduction of Summer rugby. Also they need to get the fixtures right, do away with the nonsensical Cup in our leagues and stop the breaks in play between games. We need to be playing Home or Away every week of the season this is the only way for the club to generate an income and keep its fans interested. If you get the breaks in play we are getting now you find other things to do with your time???

 

Surely its not hard  for the RFL to see there is life outside Super League but the way they are going there soon won't be!!!!

I don't agree that its ENTIRELY the RFLs job to market the game. Each club is a business and need to market its product. I agree Rugby League is great entertainment but you have to get people through the gate to watch it and realise what they've been missing.

 

It appears the promotion and relegation is back from 2015 so the RFL have realised they have sterilised the game without P & R. I cant see anyone voting to go back to winter rugby in a hurry.

 

The nonsensical Cup you refer to, would that be the one we knocked you out of and won the Bowl final?  As our coach or any of our players or even the Skolars players if they thought last Saturdays game was nonsensical.  I think you find they were all passionate about winning. I know Clive Griffiths is as proud as punch to have won.

 

I think it was the intention of the RFL to have a 10 team league this season but Coventry Bears were not quite ready for it, which would have made for a better fixture card with less breaks.

 

Lets hope the RFL are seriously trying to develop rugby league and not just Super League in their proposed changes to the league structure, which hopefully incudes a review of the ridiculous Dual Registration system.



#24 gogledd

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:06 PM

Got to disagree in part on this with you, for one no matter which division you are in we have the best entertaining product in sport, and some of the most entertaining games are played in the lower leagues, two its the job of the RFL to market the sport but their only interest is Super League.

 

The RFL have ruined the game by the neglect and inadequate funding to the clubs in the lower leagues, the withdrawal of promotion and relegation from Super League (which they have now realised) and the%2



#25 Ex-scrumhalf

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:16 PM

A lot of things said in my earlier post were said in the heat of the moment but nevertheless there is still a lot of truth in what I have said. I do not mean to be offensive to anyone but teams like Crusaders, South Wales, Oxford etc, etc are incomers whether they like to accept it or not. Our history goes back well over a 100 years and we have won most, if not every trophy that has been available in the game. We have played in front of several thousands even in what used to be the thought of as the bad old days, but we now realise that they were the good days compared with today. Without being in any way offensive I think it sometimes frustrates people like me when comparatively new clubs with no history and no amateur set up to compare with ours start telling us how good they are and start to compare crowds of 900 to 1000 with our paltry crowds without knowing our history and that we have had bigger crowds than they get now watching our reserves on Friday night at Watersheddings on a very regular basis. In fact I can go back even further and confidently say that we once had a third team, known as the colts, that attracted more than a 1000 when they played at home. But then we did have the likes of Worrall, Flanagan, Ashton, Goodway and Kirwan all of whom went on to play in our first team, and most played for Great Britain and toured Australia.

A quick point, no I am not Ray Ashton, I never had that sort of talent, but my playing days go back to the sixties and early seventies and my supporting days to 1954.

I accept that history is in the past and that it's today that counts, but my old history teacher, when asked why we are taught history, said that one reason was so that we could see the mistakes that were made in the past and to make sure that we don't make them again. He was right in many ways and although mistakes were made back then in Rugby League a lot more have been made in the last fifteen years than ever before and they have effectively killed off the game, certainly for many clubs and many people. 

The comment that Championship one would only have the likes of Oldham and Hornets if it weren't for the new teams, well of course that has to be right, but my argument is that neither we nor Hornets should have ever been in Championship one. It should have been set up rather like the conference league in football and, in RLs case, to allow the new teams to develop before moving on up the ladder. In days gone by there were 32 teams I believe in the Rugby League and this meant a healthy fixture list,.Then two divisions came along which, even then, wasn't too bad, but once Sky got their hands on the game it became evident that they only wanted teams in certain areas and then to bring in, at the expense of teams like Oldham, and many others, teams from London, Wales and, at one point, Nottingham and Kent, most of whom went to the wall and in the Welsh case only to be reinvented rather like Gateshead. It is very annoying to see clubs like Bramley, with a long history, go to the wall because the RL would not help them along only to see money being thrown at teams with no history.

I am a great believer in finding ones own level and to that end I would welcome clubs into the game who stood entirely on their own feet without any props from the RL. But all too often teams have been given special dispensations for overseas players and all sorts of other financial incentives that the great sides of RL who are falling on hard times, could not have, because of these misguided ideas.

The Crab is right in what he says, particularly when he says that history counts for nothing. Well my answer to that kind of philosophy is beware of history coming back to bite your bum. I may live in the Rugby League past but I can honestly say that the past was infinitely better than the present and that the men who ran the game, although never perfect, had the game at heart not the money that they could generate. The game was better, it was better supported and the game , in general, was far more equal. You could be two thirds down the league and still be in with a chance of defeating the top team. You only have to look at the Challenge Cup when today only half a dozen clubs have any chance of winning it. Championship and Championship 1 clubs are generally no more than canon fodder for the first few rounds merely to make up the numbers. 

I'm sorry to rant on but I do think that it does prove that a lot of people from traditional rugby league areas have been sold down the river and the frustration is beginning to bubble up.



#26 gogledd

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:14 PM

Ex-scrumhalf - I think any true RL fan would appreciate Oldham proud heritage and hopefully any comments made from Cru fans on your forum are taken in the spirit of friendly rivalry.  I think if I had been following Oldham since 1954 I would be as equally frustrated. 

 

However times do change and clubs must evolve too.  I feel that Crusaders RL 'withdrawing' their Super League licence application, whilst initially a hammer blow, has in fact been a breath of fresh air to rugby league in North Wales.  Rugby league has expanded at a pace here. Since RL coming to north Wales we have 5 adult age amateur clubs playing in the North Wales Conference. We have an centre of excellence in Deeside LEisure Centre, Flintshire. We have hundreds of school children participating in rugby league. We have hosted Wales v Australia at the Racecourse and will host Wales v USA and a quarter final  of the RLWC2013.

 

As for being propped up by the RFL, they didn't try to rescue Crusaders RL like the did the Bradford Bulls after we were put into administration. Fortunately those days are behind us.

 

As for our new club, the North Wales Crusaders got the same set up support as all the other fledgling clubs and have had the same money from the RFL as Oldham, Rochdale, Gateshead etc this season. Our club is being run on a shrewd not for profit business model and we are living within our means - whatever Rochdale PR machine churns out about us being 'big spenders'

 

Of course I want Crusaders to win the league this year and progress to the Championship. Oldham will be in a good position to gain promotion through the play offs and I wish your team success for the future - after us winning on Sunday obviously!!



#27 HARRYRUBY

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:54 PM

A lot of things said in my earlier post were said in the heat of the moment but nevertheless there is still a lot of truth in what I have said. I do not mean to be offensive to anyone but teams like Crusaders, South Wales, Oxford etc, etc are incomers whether they like to accept it or not. Our history goes back well over a 100 years and we have won most, if not every trophy that has been available in the game. We have played in front of several thousands even in what used to be the thought of as the bad old days, but we now realise that they were the good days compared with today. Without being in any way offensive I think it sometimes frustrates people like me when comparatively new clubs with no history and no amateur set up to compare with ours start telling us how good they are and start to compare crowds of 900 to 1000 with our paltry crowds without knowing our history and that we have had bigger crowds than they get now watching our reserves on Friday night at Watersheddings on a very regular basis. In fact I can go back even further and confidently say that we once had a third team, known as the colts, that attracted more than a 1000 when they played at home. But then we did have the likes of Worrall, Flanagan, Ashton, Goodway and Kirwan all of whom went on to play in our first team, and most played for Great Britain and toured Australia.

A quick point, no I am not Ray Ashton, I never had that sort of talent, but my playing days go back to the sixties and early seventies and my supporting days to 1954.

I accept that history is in the past and that it's today that counts, but my old history teacher, when asked why we are taught history, said that one reason was so that we could see the mistakes that were made in the past and to make sure that we don't make them again. He was right in many ways and although mistakes were made back then in Rugby League a lot more have been made in the last fifteen years than ever before and they have effectively killed off the game, certainly for many clubs and many people. 

The comment that Championship one would only have the likes of Oldham and Hornets if it weren't for the new teams, well of course that has to be right, but my argument is that neither we nor Hornets should have ever been in Championship one. It should have been set up rather like the conference league in football and, in RLs case, to allow the new teams to develop before moving on up the ladder. In days gone by there were 32 teams I believe in the Rugby League and this meant a healthy fixture list,.Then two divisions came along which, even then, wasn't too bad, but once Sky got their hands on the game it became evident that they only wanted teams in certain areas and then to bring in, at the expense of teams like Oldham, and many others, teams from London, Wales and, at one point, Nottingham and Kent, most of whom went to the wall and in the Welsh case only to be reinvented rather like Gateshead. It is very annoying to see clubs like Bramley, with a long history, go to the wall because the RL would not help them along only to see money being thrown at teams with no history.

I am a great believer in finding ones own level and to that end I would welcome clubs into the game who stood entirely on their own feet without any props from the RL. But all too often teams have been given special dispensations for overseas players and all sorts of other financial incentives that the great sides of RL who are falling on hard times, could not have, because of these misguided ideas.

The Crab is right in what he says, particularly when he says that history counts for nothing. Well my answer to that kind of philosophy is beware of history coming back to bite your bum. I may live in the Rugby League past but I can honestly say that the past was infinitely better than the present and that the men who ran the game, although never perfect, had the game at heart not the money that they could generate. The game was better, it was better supported and the game , in general, was far more equal. You could be two thirds down the league and still be in with a chance of defeating the top team. You only have to look at the Challenge Cup when today only half a dozen clubs have any chance of winning it. Championship and Championship 1 clubs are generally no more than canon fodder for the first few rounds merely to make up the numbers. 

I'm sorry to rant on but I do think that it does prove that a lot of people from traditional rugby league areas have been sold down the river and the frustration is beginning to bubble up.

 

 

Could not have put it better ex scrum half.

 

I feel sorry for the supporters who never knew about the game in the 50's to the 80's which in my opinion was better rugby. The game is much faster today but far less skilful in most of the positions.

 

The problems in the game have come from the advent of super League with sky and their  money creating divisions between the clubs. Rugby is a sport played in winter not summer. Look at where it is played and there is only us and the French who play in summer. Don't forget the Aussies and Kiwis play in their winter. They love playing rugby in our summer but ask them to play in our winter and they don't like it and we used to beat them on a regular basis.



#28 clwydianrange

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 07:33 PM

Ex Scrum Half. I have been reading and enjoying this forum now for over a year without bothering to enrol. After reading your post I had to join just to say that was one of the most heartfelt postings I have read. I don't agree 100% with you but I know exactly where you're coming from. Hope all goes well for the Yeds in future, after the crusaders game of course.

#29 higgy

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:21 AM

I don't agree that its ENTIRELY the RFLs job to market the game. Each club is a business and need to market its product. I agree Rugby League is great entertainment but you have to get people through the gate to watch it and realise what they've been missing.

 

It appears the promotion and relegation is back from 2015 so the RFL have realised they have sterilised the game without P & R. I cant see anyone voting to go back to winter rugby in a hurry.

 

The nonsensical Cup you refer to, would that be the one we knocked you out of and won the Bowl final?  As our coach or any of our players or even the Skolars players if they thought last Saturdays game was nonsensical.  I think you find they were all passionate about winning. I know Clive Griffiths is as proud as punch to have won.

 

I think it was the intention of the RFL to have a 10 team league this season but Coventry Bears were not quite ready for it, which would have made for a better fixture card with less breaks.

 

Lets hope the RFL are seriously trying to develop rugby league and not just Super League in their proposed changes to the league structure, which hopefully incudes a review of the ridiculous Dual Registration system.

In your original posting you stated that the clubs should market far and wide this is the RFL's job the clubs can only market their local area its not their job to spend money far and wide.

 

The advent of summer rugby has had an adverse affect on the game in general and is now having the same affect on the Amateur game, there are so many other things to do during the summer that interfere with the game. Huddersfield are a prime example top of the league playing good rugby, but can only get crowds of 5000, No disrespect but have you experienced anything other than Summer Rugby?

 

The nonsensical cup I refer to is the one that is causing breaks in play during the season and costing clubs money, I am sure your club and fans are proud to have won the bowl final I am sure the players would be passionate playing in the final you would not expect anything else for some it might be the only final they ever get to, and good luck to you, but this final was only introduced this year to give our division something tp play for and maintain some interest.

I am sure if given a chance most clubs would vote against this cup for the chance of more league games, 



#30 Ex-scrumhalf

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:11 AM

Ex Scrum Half. I have been reading and enjoying this forum now for over a year without bothering to enrol. After reading your post I had to join just to say that was one of the most heartfelt postings I have read. I don't agree 100% with you but I know exactly where you're coming from. Hope all goes well for the Yeds in future, after the crusaders game of course.

Cheers mate. I think I've got it all off my chest now so just looking forward to the rest of the season. I think it's fair to say that your team are clear favourites to go up automatically, unless something very strange happens, but I am keeping my fingers crossed that we will follow you up shortly. The problem is of course that when and if we do we then need the finances to keep us up there and in my view I think we will have to strengthen the team by bringing maybe only two or three really experienced players to help our very young team along. As long as we can keep this squad for next year. 

To Gogledd I would like to say thanks for your comments and also for the information about the expansion in North Wales. I'm pleased to see it happen. My old dad, long dead now, lived for many happy years in Abergele and of course I spent a lot of time visiting him. It was our second home and I still love the area. I also have very happy memories of playing alongside and knowing some of the Welsh greats. 


Edited by Ex-scrumhalf, 23 July 2013 - 11:12 AM.


#31 Raff

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:04 PM

I think that anyone who supported Oldham (with many of us going home and away) in the 60s,70s and 80s can really feel the same way as ex-scrumhalf.Great times,tremendous atmosphere-and,yes,more skilfull rugby.More `characters`.But it is gone and will never come back.
My son lives in Wrexham and goes to watch NWC: I`ve been with him and I have to say that the crowd is great and there`s an really nice atmosphere (:I used to live in Wrexham and haven`t been in the Turf for years : we normally go to the Club across the road-recommend it also).I can also verify what Gogledd said about expansion:my son has stopped playing RU and is playing for one of the RL teams in Wrexham.So,it seems that NWC is doing a lot of the right things right,with good communication with the fans.
The rugby they played against the Skolars in the Final was excellent and they deserved their win.It`ll be interesting to see what the odds are for the match on Sunday - I`d say both @ 10/11 on an equal pegging.

#32 gogledd

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 06:18 PM

In your original posting you stated that the clubs should market far and wide this is the RFL's job the clubs can only market their local area its not their job to spend money far and wide.

 

The advent of summer rugby has had an adverse affect on the game in general and is now having the same affect on the Amateur game, there are so many other things to do during the summer that interfere with the game. Huddersfield are a prime example top of the league playing good rugby, but can only get crowds of 5000, No disrespect but have you experienced anything other than Summer Rugby?

 

The nonsensical cup I refer to is the one that is causing breaks in play during the season and costing clubs money, I am sure your club and fans are proud to have won the bowl final I am sure the players would be passionate playing in the final you would not expect anything else for some it might be the only final they ever get to, and good luck to you, but this final was only introduced this year to give our division something tp play for and maintain some interest.

I am sure if given a chance most clubs would vote against this cup for the chance of more league games, 

I wasn't the OP. I didn't agree it was ENTIRELY the RFLs job to market the game.  I don't exempt them from the broader marketing remit but still feel it is the club who need to attract supporters so I don't think there's to much disagreement on that point.

 

You correct in your assumption I have no other experience of watching anything other than summer RL. However I have many years of playing and refereeing winter RU and in all honesty prefer my rugby league as it is now, but I will defer to your greater experience on this point. I would add that recently 16 of us from North Wales went out to watch Catalans Dragons (v London Broncos) in Perpignan, and that game was well supported by local fans. Huddersfield seem to have difficulty in attracting fans to the Galpharm - I'm not sure why as they play attractive rugby and are top of the table.

 

How can cup games cost money?  The attract fans, and income to the club. If the games are well supported I see no problem. I thinks is a great idea to introduce the Northern Rail Cup and Bowl; it give a realistic chance of CH and CH1 clubs to compete and win some silverware.  I'm not so sure Championship clubs would vote against it. 



#33 clwydianrange

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

As far as this sundays game goes it will be very close. I saw the game at the Racecourse and it was on a knife edge right to the end. I think the cru players will be buoyed up after the bowl final and that, hopefully, will see us through but its gonna be very tight.

#34 gogledd

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:54 AM

As far as this sundays game goes it will be very close. I saw the game at the Racecourse and it was on a knife edge right to the end. I think the cru players will be buoyed up after the bowl final and that, hopefully, will see us through but its gonna be very tight.

Agreed.



#35 TOSH1960

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 11:26 AM

We've continued to improve since that game and had a week off to settle a few niggling injuries. I see us turning you over this week but either way, it will be a great game if it's half as good as the last encounter. Come on you Yeds!!!!!!!!



#36 gogledd

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:49 PM

We've continued to improve since that game and had a week off to settle a few niggling injuries. I see us turning you over this week but either way, it will be a great game if it's half as good as the last encounter. Come on you Yeds!!!!!!!!

I think the North Wales Crusaders will just edge it and no way will you get nilled like Hornets.



#37 The Art of Hand and Foot

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:35 PM

Hoping it'll be Roughyeds win by 14points. But it'll be so tight that there'll be more than a few drop goals used by both sides. Remember when Fordy was coach we always went for an early drop goal when a close game was expected.

#38 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:06 PM

I'm a great believer in drop goals, but I hope it doesn't come down to that because that is the one area where I believe Oldham will have the edge on us. I once saw Harry Pinner score 5 in a match for St. Helens and dean Pickup booted well over 100 in his career for Eccles ARLFC, winning us many games along the way.






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