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RFL Chairman responds to criticism


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#41 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 03:15 PM

Very much agree.

 

Is not about debate, discussion, opinion, journalism, challenging people and so on.  As I see it Martyn was creating an opportunity for the RFL to respond to the criticisms. 

 

What really pisses me off big time is the relentless  and conditioned-reflex denigration of the RFL and SuplerLeague, it people, its actions, its lack of action, its decisions , its lack of decisions, it refereeing decisions, its structural ideas, its openness, its transparency, its secretiveness, it unfairness, the perecived bias of the disciplinary committee..in fact everything, all the time.

That's quite a list, but who are you talking about here?

 

Who are the relentless denigraters?



#42 Johnoco

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 03:22 PM

I'll use this Canada v USA game here as an example. Technically, the standard is about a good amateur level and if you were so inclined could focus on that and highlight their shortcomings.
Or you could enjoy the game (the crowd certainly are) for what it is in front of a decent crowd in a new RL location.
Would taking the latter approach constitute spin or something?

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#43 Vasile Andreica

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 03:38 PM

I'll use this Canada v USA game here as an example. Technically, the standard is about a good amateur level and if you were so inclined could focus on that and highlight their shortcomings.
Or you could enjoy the game (the crowd certainly are) for what it is in front of a decent crowd in a new RL location.
Would taking the latter approach constitute spin or something?

 

This. The game is good! Could be made better, but the game itself, by its rulebook, is such balanced that it makes a good or at least interesting show even at a lower level.



#44 JohnM

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 03:45 PM

That's quite a list, but who are you talking about here?

 

Who are the relentless denigraters?

 

 

Certainly not you Martyn, so you can sleep well tonight.  :)  :)

 

In any case, I'm not going to fall into a trap like that.

 

 Its a question of, " if you have to ask....."

 

Just  aggregate the contributions of individual posters to arrive at the big picture.



#45 Just Browny

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 03:48 PM

Excellent posts on here by Johnoco, GJ, JohnM and a couple of others. But hats off totally to JTBC for some cracking posts.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#46 Pottsy

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:34 PM

Certainly not you Martyn, so you can sleep well tonight. :) :)

In any case, I'm not going to fall into a trap like that.

Its a question of, " if you have to ask....."

Just aggregate the contributions of individual posters to arrive at the big picture.


Ok, so Martyn isn't one of those guilty of "relentless negativity." So who are the perpetrators? I'm genuinely keen to know.

#47 Keith T

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:47 PM

Ok, so Martyn isn't one of those guilty of "relentless negativity." So who are the perpetrators? I'm genuinely keen to know.


Everyone who has put forward an opposite view to JohnM, I suppose!!!

IMHO, the game lacks governance from the governing body and at times merely pays lip-service to SLE. Look below SL and there is quite a lot of unrest. Look at the DR system that has caused more aggravation than any other topic this season and the RFL merely sit back and say we will look at it at the end of the season. Meantime they are now talking about bringing back Under 23's which would in effect do away with the DR system!!!

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#48 bobbruce

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:05 PM

Everyone who has put forward an opposite view to JohnM, I suppose!!!

IMHO, the game lacks governance from the governing body and at times merely pays lip-service to SLE. Look below SL and there is quite a lot of unrest. Look at the DR system that has caused more aggravation than any other topic this season and the RFL merely sit back and say we will look at it at the end of the season. Meantime they are now talking about bringing back Under 23's which would in effect do away with the DR system!!!


Didn't the RFL want to keep the under 23s I think that was their recommendation. The clubs voted against it and choose the DR system instead. Now that its in the best thing to do is look at it at the end of the season so I'm not sure what the RFL has done wrong here.

#49 Keith T

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:15 PM

Correction bobbruce, the SL clubs decided they didn't want the Under 23's and it was presented as a "fait accompli" to the Championship clubs. That is what I mean by saying the game needs governance from the governing body, not SLE.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#50 Pottsy

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:21 PM

Didn't the RFL want to keep the under 23s I think that was their recommendation. The clubs voted against it and choose the DR system instead. Now that its in the best thing to do is look at it at the end of the season so I'm not sure what the RFL has done wrong here.



correct. Ironically, Warrington were one of the few clubs that wanted to follow RFL advice

#51 bobbruce

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:26 PM

Correction bobbruce, the SL clubs decided they didn't want the Under 23's and it was presented as a "fait accompli" to the Championship clubs. That is what I mean by saying the game needs governance from the governing body, not SLE.


No championship clubs had a choice that's why some clubs aren't DR to a SL team. No sport is run by a governing body with out agreement from its members how would that work. That's why the league structure is suggested by the RFL and then voted on by the clubs or would you like the RFL to say this is the structure your going to play in get on with it.

#52 Gav Wilson

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:29 PM

...or would you like the RFL to say this is the structure your going to play in get on with it.

 

Personally, I would. The club Chairmen have far too much power.


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#53 Just Browny

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:32 PM

correct. Ironically, Warrington were one of the few clubs that wanted to follow RFL advice


Not in any way ironic. Warrington wanted to keep the u23s and promote youth talent that way, but were outvoted. But Warrington can't just sit back and do nothing as a point of principle, so are playing the cards they're dealt and using the DR 'system'.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#54 Pottsy

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:46 PM

Not in any way ironic. Warrington wanted to keep the u23s and promote youth talent that way, but were outvoted. But Warrington can't just sit back and do nothing as a point of principle, so are playing the cards they're dealt and using the DR 'system'.


Sorry to be a pedant, but it is ironic: the club that reportedly was most opposed to DR has, out of necessity, ended up being one of its most prolific exponents. That's pretty much a textbook example of irony.

#55 Pottsy

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 07:22 PM

Personally, I would. The club Chairmen have far too much power.


I'm inclined to agree (although I'm aware that the RFL constitution makes this impossible).

Whatever the outcome of this process (and the smart money is clearly on 3x8 etc) some of us still aren't going to be happy, so cut the whole lomg and drawn out 'will they, wont they' saga and just get on with it!

I'm not a fan of the 2x12 + 3x8 plan but the one thing that annoys me more than anything is the way that yet again the RFL has allowed off-field politics to dominate the news agenda at a time when all the talk should be about the forthcoming World Cup.

Sorry to be 'negative' but we really do shoot ourselves in the foot in this regard.

#56 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:02 AM

Peter Smith and I will appear on Sky Sports Super League BackChat programme next Tuesday to discuss some of the issues raised in our articles and Brian Barwick's response to them.

 

No doubt it will be a lively discussion.



#57 Blind side johnny

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 10:49 AM

No championship clubs had a choice that's why some clubs aren't DR to a SL team. No sport is run by a governing body with out agreement from its members how would that work. That's why the league structure is suggested by the RFL and then voted on by the clubs or would you like the RFL to say this is the structure your going to play in get on with it.

 

 

Quite simply by a governance structure that allocates executive authority to the governing body and limits the ability of the members to meddle with such authority. I think that you will find that this is what has been achieved in Australia and seems to be working OK.


Believe what you see, don't see what you believe.


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#58 Pottsy

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:22 AM

For those looking for 'balanced' journalism, I suggest you check out Phil Caplan's interview with Blake Solly in the latest 40-20.

Afaik Phil is strongly opposed to the 2x12 + 3x8 proposal but he gives Blake the opportunity to sell the positives.

By the end of the piece, although you may or may not be sold on the idea, you'll at least have a better idea of the rationale.

You'll also poSsibly be left, like Phil, wondering why BS wasn't used more prominently by the RFL to 'sell' the idea, rather than leaving it to Nigel Wood.

It's a good piece though, as is Peter Smith's YEP column which, when read in its entirety, is far more balanced than is being made out.

I think it's worth remembering that blokes like Phil Caplan, Martyn Sadler and Peter smith etc are, first and foremost, Rugby league fans and any criticism levelled at the game's governance comes from a desire to see the game succeed and flourish.

Those of a more sensitive disposition also ought to be grateful that the game doesn't enjoy a higher national profile as I don't know how they'd cope with the level of scrutiny people like Martin Samuels, Hugh McIllvaney etc would give these and other proposals.

#59 Father Ted

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:36 AM

No one has yet suggested how supporters will react when they hear the details, whatever those details are.
Fans don't like their club playing others three times in a League season.
So, if the extra games are a play off type then we will have to pay again. Or, those few who attend will have to pay to watch.
On the other hand, will they be added to the season and be covered by the season ticket? This is tempting fans to dump their season tickets, select games and pay on the gate.
Has there been a financial appraisal of the new system based on crowds, local sponsorship and subsequent revenue levels?
We need to be told their thinking and why because if they present us with a done deal, fans may well not buy into that deal!

#60 Johnoco

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:37 AM

I wouldn't class those three gents as moaners in the first place, they are mostly pretty good and yes, balanced.

 

But 40-20 is not a national magazine (well, it is I suppose but it's RL specific)

 

Whereas Chris Irvine saying the CC is a load of rubbish or George Riley saying everyone is skint DO get seen by a much larger audience. One that isn't especially interested in RL and will just accept that the game is skint and boring because they have read it. 


No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together





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