Jump to content


Rugby League World Issue 402

Try our Fantastic 5-Issue Bundle Offer! For just £18, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:
The Play-offs Issue - pictured (out 12 Sept) – Covering the climax of the Super League & Championship seasons
The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final excitement from both sides of the world plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Ukip's Godfrey Bloom defends 'bongo bongo land' comments


  • Please log in to reply
207 replies to this topic

#41 ckn

ckn
  • Admin
  • 16,845 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:59 PM

Protesting against what may I ask? Why are people voting for an anti-EU party that supports immigration control and not the Greens, Respect or even the good old Labour Party? 

 

The opinions polls show that after the economy the second most important issue affecting people's lives is immigration and border control. Until the mainstream political parties, especially those on the left, wake up to that fact and do something about it then UKIP's support will continue to grow.

 

The Romanians and Bulgarians haven't even arrived on mass yet. After 1st January that will become as big an issue of not bigger than when the Poles arrived on mass. 

 

The mainstream political parties burying their heads in the sand over these issues isn't going to wish them away. 

 

It isn't just the UK either. There has been a wave of anti immigration parties having success in France, Holland, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark and Sweden. Time the political mainstream woke up to the fact. 

The media and their mass hysteria about these immigrants is the main reason for that.  Promoting xenophobia is always a good way to get people to buy newspapers.  To paraphrase: Lies, damned lies and what you read in the tabloid press.

 

There have always been protest parties in the UK, the Lib Dems pretending they're a legitimate part of the Coalition has removed the biggest protest party as an outlet.  That said, the biggest source of UKIP voters is disillusioned Tory voters who think that voting UKIP will actually achieve something when what it really means is that they're going to most likely ensure that the Labour Party gets a nice majority at the next general election!  That really makes me think positively about the UKIP share of the vote :D


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#42 Futtocks

Futtocks
  • Coach
  • 20,456 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 03:11 PM

When many newspapers make a point of associating particular words on a relentless basis, it can convince some people to assume that it is fact. Sorry, FACT!

  • Benefits + Fraud
  • Illegal + Immigrant
  • Welfare + Cheat
  • Liberal + Do-gooders
  • Islamic + Terrorist
  • Feral + Youth
  • Dole + Scroungers
  • Broken + Britain

...and so on. If you can induce a state of fear, outrage and ignorance in people, you can sell them any old nonsense - papers or parties.

 

mirror%20daily.jpg


Edited by Futtocks, 08 August 2013 - 03:13 PM.

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#43 archibald

archibald
  • Coach
  • 646 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 03:19 PM

It's 'listening to the public'
That's part of the problem in uk politics

Rather than pursue policies based on principle and belief parties pursue policies that seem populist
That's why we get so many ill thought out reactions to events that are unworkable the dangerous dogs act the bedroom tax and so on

Of course they pursue policies that are populist, that's the whole point.



#44 Futtocks

Futtocks
  • Coach
  • 20,456 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 03:22 PM

We used to have a guy who worked for us who held strong and very loudly-expressed opinions about all sorts of things, but his arguments were mainly based around repeating slogans containing rhymes or alliteration. He's probably joined UKIP by now. :rolleyes: 


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#45 Duff Duff

Duff Duff
  • Banned
  • 717 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 03:36 PM

The media and their mass hysteria about these immigrants is the main reason for that.  Promoting xenophobia is always a good way to get people to buy newspapers.  To paraphrase: Lies, damned lies and what you read in the tabloid press.
 
There have always been protest parties in the UK, the Lib Dems pretending they're a legitimate part of the Coalition has removed the biggest protest party as an outlet.  That said, the biggest source of UKIP voters is disillusioned Tory voters who think that voting UKIP will actually achieve something when what it really means is that they're going to most likely ensure that the Labour Party gets a nice majority at the next general election!  That really makes me think positively about the UKIP share of the vote :D


If you dismiss people's legtimate concerns they you aren't going to deal with the problems are you.

Over the last 10 years Britian has experienced an unprecedented level of immigration, estimated to be between 4 and 5 million. That outstrips anything seen in the 50s and 60s. It is the highest inward movement of people into the UK ever.

That influx has been largely uncontrolled and much of it largely unskilled labour that wasn't needed. It is having a negative impact on people's daily lives and will continue to do so until it is dealt with.

If you don't recognise this is a huge problem then you are stuck in the same place that the Labour Party is in a the moment. Until there is a recognition that there is a problem then UKIP will continue to grow in support and you will have to put up with the likes of Farage and Bloom being given a high public profile.

It should be remembered that the people who suffer the most from the influx of unskilled labour is the poor working in unskilled jobs and the poor who have to share public and social services with poor immigrants. The rich businessmen love it because it drives down wage costs but it isn't great for the workforce. Why is he Labour Party called the Labour Party again? Something to do with representing the interests of the labour force. Ha ha. That is a good one.

#46 archibald

archibald
  • Coach
  • 646 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 03:45 PM

We used to have a guy who worked for us who held strong and very loudly-expressed opinions about all sorts of things, but his arguments were mainly based around repeating slogans containing rhymes or alliteration. He's probably joined UKIP by now. :rolleyes:

We've one of those "I'm a realist, not a racist". Lifelong Labour voter.



#47 Futtocks

Futtocks
  • Coach
  • 20,456 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 03:49 PM

We've one of those "I'm a realist, not a racist". Lifelong Labour voter.

They always claim to be speaking their mind, but it takes longer than you'd expect...


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#48 Maximus Decimus

Maximus Decimus
  • Coach
  • 7,709 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 04:19 PM

It isn't just the UK either. There has been a wave of anti immigration parties having success in France, Holland, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark and Sweden. Time the political mainstream woke up to the fact.


The Tories will eventually wake up to the fact and that will comfortably kill off UKIP. They are a protest vote because people disillusioned with the status quo are voting (or saying they will) for them, just the same as the Liberals. In reality people know very little about them aside from that they would leave the EU and they are saying they will vote for them based on this and Farage. Once they are subjected to greater scrutiny they inevitably will lose support.

Regardless of how much support you think they are getting there are vastly more that wouldn't vote for them and people like Godfrey Bloom put off swathes of the population because he is the worst type of Tory. I doubt anybody cried themselves to sleep over his comments but it said a great deal about what he is actually like and how he thinks and that he is clearly how he still views Africa.

Edited by Maximus Decimus, 08 August 2013 - 04:20 PM.


#49 Duff Duff

Duff Duff
  • Banned
  • 717 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:01 PM

The Tories will eventually wake up to the fact and that will comfortably kill off UKIP. They are a protest vote because people disillusioned with the status quo are voting (or saying they will) for them, just the same as the Liberals. In reality people know very little about them aside from that they would leave the EU and they are saying they will vote for them based on this and Farage. Once they are subjected to greater scrutiny they inevitably will lose support.Regardless of how much support you think they are getting there are vastly more that wouldn't vote for them and people like Godfrey Bloom put off swathes of the population because he is the worst type of Tory. I doubt anybody cried themselves to sleep over his comments but it said a great deal about what he is actually like and how he thinks and that he is clearly how he still views Africa.


Well the rise is hostility to towards high levels of immigration poses move of a long term threat to the Labour Party than anyone else. It is pretty clear that the middle class left-liberal faction that controls the Labour Party is detached from the core support base it claims to represent. UKIP aren't an anomaly. They are part of a trend that has swept Western Europe and has undermined the pro immigration parties of the left in a number of countries. Those parties of the left claim to represent the interests of th labour but at the same time they follow policies that threaten the labour force's well being.

The emergence of UKIP has shifted the public debate on a whole range of issues rightwards and the opinion polls show that the Conservatives are more in tune with the public mood on a whole range of key issues. The economy, welfare, immigration, Europe. Labour has been rooted to the spot and has merely been seen to defend the status quo. A status quo that is completely unsustainable.

UKIP and the Liberals are completely different from one another. UKIP are a centralised single issue party that focuses on the EU and its impact regarding immigration. The Liberals on the other hand are a decentralised political party that use a combination of localism and opportunism to gain support. The Liberals in Manchester, Sheffield and Leeds appeal to a completely different set of people and values to the Liberals in places like Cheltenham, Bath, Chelmsford and Kingston Upon Thames.

People should be very careful about writing the Liberal off come 2015. The way the elections system works they could lose 10% of their popular vote and still only lose 4 or 5 seats. People should appreciate that many Liberal voters have right wing sentiments and are more than happy with their performance in government. People like Liberal MPs and they are notoriously difficult to remove once elected.

#50 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 40,936 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:02 PM

Of course they pursue policies that are populist, that's the whole point.

Then there wod be no political parties no elected governments
And we'd have government by plebiscite
What is popular changes all the time that is one if the reasons that it is dangerous to govern this way

The idea is that political parties, individuals, groups put forward what they believe in and try to persuade the electorate to vote for it or for a candidate as an individual
Instead we are rapidly going in the other direction democracy is becoming market lead
: politicians and their parties play up increasingly to the whims and prejudices of the electorate they wish to court. It's one if the reasons for the rise of ukip
I think this leads democracy down a dangerous road
There's nothing new about it there have been some classic examples 'do you want a ###### for a neighbour' in smethwick in the sixties for instance, but increasingly political parties are being led by the nose and not by their apparent principles
WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#51 archibald

archibald
  • Coach
  • 646 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:51 PM

Then there wod be no political parties no elected governments
And we'd have government by plebiscite
What is popular changes all the time that is one if the reasons that it is dangerous to govern this way

The idea is that political parties, individuals, groups put forward what they believe in and try to persuade the electorate to vote for it or for a candidate as an individual
Instead we are rapidly going in the other direction democracy is becoming market lead
: politicians and their parties play up increasingly to the whims and prejudices of the electorate they wish to court. It's one if the reasons for the rise of ukip
I think this leads democracy down a dangerous road
There's nothing new about it there have been some classic examples 'do you want a ###### for a neighbour' in smethwick in the sixties for instance, but increasingly political parties are being led by the nose and not by their apparent principles

But that isn't the parties fault, that's a problem with the electorate. Why should a political party work hard when a catchy soundbite will do the job for them.



#52 archibald

archibald
  • Coach
  • 646 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:04 PM

People should be very careful about writing the Liberal off come 2015. The way the elections system works they could lose 10% of their popular vote and still only lose 4 or 5 seats. People should appreciate that many Liberal voters have right wing sentiments and are more than happy with their performance in government. People like Liberal MPs and they are notoriously difficult to remove once elected.

I'm not convinced that hordes will leave the LD's in 2015 either. They've campaigned for years on policies that were just about sane enough without having to actually implement them as we've had majority governments for so long. 2010 happens and they're thrown in at the deep end. They haven't sold their soul, they've done what any political party would have done.

From 1997 to 2010 how many LD policies actually came into being? From 2010 to the present, what's the number?



#53 Duff Duff

Duff Duff
  • Banned
  • 717 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:08 PM

Then there wod be no political parties no elected governments
And we'd have government by plebiscite
What is popular changes all the time that is one if the reasons that it is dangerous to govern this way
The idea is that political parties, individuals, groups put forward what they believe in and try to persuade the electorate to vote for it or for a candidate as an individual
Instead we are rapidly going in the other direction democracy is becoming market lead
: politicians and their parties play up increasingly to the whims and prejudices of the electorate they wish to court. It's one if the reasons for the rise of ukip
I think this leads democracy down a dangerous road
There's nothing new about it there have been some classic examples 'do you want a ###### for a neighbour' in smethwick in the sixties for instance, but increasingly political parties are being led by the nose and not by their apparent principles


Switzerland is governed directly by a series of referenda and it is one of the most effectively governed countries in Europe.

#54 Larry the Leit

Larry the Leit
  • Coach
  • 2,614 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:14 PM

Political correctness is what morons cry when their offensive ram kings are branded offensive.

How on earth this guy has got through life without realising the inappropriate nature of what he said is beyond me.
The Unicorn is not a Goose,

#55 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 40,936 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:22 PM

But that isn't the parties fault, that's a problem with the electorate. Why should a political party work hard when a catchy soundbite will do the job for them.

 

 

But that isn't the parties fault, that's a problem with the electorate. Why should a political party work hard when a catchy soundbite will do the job for them.

I'm not saying its anybody's fault


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#56 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 40,936 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:24 PM

Political correctness is what morons cry when their offensive ram kings are branded offensive.

How on earth this guy has got through life without realising the inappropriate nature of what he said is beyond me.

 

 

Political correctness is what morons cry when their offensive ram kings are branded offensive.

How on earth this guy has got through life without realising the inappropriate nature of what he said is beyond me.

his got through life in this way because of the world he lives in: the world of golf club bars, the rugby clubs and cricket clubs that he mentions and so on. There are lots of people like him


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#57 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 40,936 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:33 PM

Switzerland is governed directly by a series of referenda and it is one of the most effectively governed countries in Europe.

 

 

Switzerland is governed directly by a series of referenda and it is one of the most effectively governed countries in Europe.

it depends what you mean by effective government.

also Switzerland is a small insular country with kittle cultural diversity, great wealth that isn't created by industry no foreign policy to speak of

 

I'm concerned that the uk is drifting towards being an intolerant illiberal xenophobic culturally narrow country. 

If governments and political parties become driven more and more by pandering to the prejudices and narrow self interest of a section of the population then the quality of our democracy and the standards that hold the country together will be increasingly diminished.


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#58 Griff9of13

Griff9of13
  • Coach
  • 5,661 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:33 PM

The opinions polls show that after the economy the second most important issue affecting people's lives is immigration and border control. Until the mainstream political parties, especially those on the left, wake up to that fact and do something about it then UKIP's support will continue to grow.

 

Not for me it isn't. Apart from threads like this and inflammatory articles in certain newspapers I never give immigration a second thought. But then I don't perceive any adverse effect of immigration on my life. And I think that's the point; it's matter of perception. Far too many have been, for want of a better word, brainwashed in to seeing all foreigners as some type of threat and people to be feared. Who can blame them as just about all tabloid newspapers seem to pursue a deliberate campaign of only ever including stories about foreigners which portray them badly. A constant bombardment of negativity works to convince many people that all immigrants are illegal/dole scroungers/criminals.

 

Also, UKIP are a party of protest; they are against things and not for things, not a healthy stance to come from. Because once they get what the want and banish the first thing they are against, the EU Then what? Do they just quietly fade away, job done? What will the turn their attention on next? 

 

To me it is the thin end of the wedge, and I am reminded of this:

 

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
 
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
 
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
 
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#59 gingerjon

gingerjon
  • Coach
  • 29,149 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:36 PM

Switzerland is governed directly by a series of referenda and it is one of the most effectively governed countries in Europe.

It's also federal and they speak German, French, Italian and Romansch.

 

Should we adopt all that too?


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#60 gingerjon

gingerjon
  • Coach
  • 29,149 posts

Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:49 PM

Two British teenage voluntary aid workers have had acid chucked in their faces today in Zanzibar, for the crime of being young women out on the street.

 

Sounds just like Bongo Bongo Land to me.

It's good that young women are never attacked in this country.

 

Or raped and have their rapes excused because they were being provocative by people who use phrases such as 'Bongo Bongo Land'.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users