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#21 Marauder

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 07:08 PM

Put on your tinfoil hat and look at my posting history.

"Touchy" Did I actually say you :tongue:


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#22 TaxiEgg

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 08:32 PM

Given what the community clubs provide to the game why should they be expected to pick up any shortfall ?

 

The RFL get a great deal out of the clubs and leagues  as it is, to ask for more is totally wrong , they could stop financing warm weather training camps in South Africa for example .



#23 once a ref always a ref

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 08:49 PM

When numbers are bandied about they tend to be large numbers but when you break down this large number it becomes less daunting.

 

 £200 per team of say 20 players is £10 each, 20 games is 50p/ game.  Not a lot is it, a raffle would cover it?

 

 However I would vote against it and suggest any shortfall should come from TV money or World Cup profit.


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#24 LordCharles

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:00 PM

I'll bite.

Difficulty if individuals like your good self Mr Charles is that you're a bit like a politician in opposition. Objecting to everything, proposing nothing and promising the world whilst costing nothing.

The world isn't like that. If there is a cost to running the leagues and there is a funding gap then it seems entirely sensible to me Thst considered given to considering how to fill the hole.

It seems clear from the minutes you have quoted from the 9 pages of that meeting that the matter was to be investigated further.Barla was represented at the hearing so no secrecy to complain of.

If there's a funding gap and monies need to be raised to fill it then it follows that the money has to come from somewhere. I note sponsorship is also proposed but how much can be obtained in the current climate anybody knows.

£200 per team or say £10 per player per year for membership of your sports governing body would seem a small price to pay for membership of your sports governing body if that money is re-invested to cover costs.

I'd ask you what you would propose but you'd clearly prefer people not to ask the question because you haven't got the answer.

 

So where has this 640K funding gap been for the last 40 years then?



#25 Gar

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:33 PM

Given what the community clubs provide to the game why should they be expected to pick up any shortfall ?
 
The RFL get a great deal out of the clubs and leagues  as it is, to ask for more is totally wrong , they could stop financing warm weather training camps in South Africa for example .


If we are going to the trouble of hosting a World Cup which we presumably want to win then we need to give our national side every opportunity. If a warm weather camp was considered necessary, proved beneficial and was considered money well spent then I don't have a problem with it. A successful world cup winning side can only be good for the game at all levels.

#26 TaxiEgg

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:48 PM

Now then Gar warm weather training is not going to prepare you for a competition in winter lets be sensible mate ?
It's a bloody jollie boys outing nothing more nothing less .
If Mc Namara picks the right team we might just get past the staged managed semi final but IMO that's as far as we will go , but we will have to pick several NRL based players to get us there .
But I'm confused in one post you say clubs can't afford it then say its ok if we win the World Cup mixed messages , the World Cup should be self financing and if the comp makes a profit do you think the RFL will drop the membership notion ?

#27 Impartial Observer

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:14 PM

The world cup is run by the rlif. Any profit goes to them.

#28 TaxiEgg

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:24 PM

Your quite right but would the RFL not benefit given that Nigel Wood as said the success of the World Cup is crucial for the British game ?

#29 Impartial Observer

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:42 PM

Yes i am sure some profit would come back to the rfl and also the game would get a higher profile and hopefully get some sponsors.

The warm weather training will have be paid for by sport england money that is only allowed to be used for the elite performance programme.

#30 Marauder

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 11:20 PM

When numbers are bandied about they tend to be large numbers but when you break down this large number it becomes less daunting.

 

 £200 per team of say 20 players is £10 each, 20 games is 50p/ game.  Not a lot is it, a raffle would cover it?

 

 However I would vote against it and suggest any shortfall should come from TV money or World Cup profit.

So your now saying it's OK to put a further burden on these amateurs so that the professional's can carry on building their elite pyramid.IMO players and officials at amateur clubs already give up enough in their pursuit of their hobby and past time, some of these RFL officials need to remember many of these young men may hardly be bringing home £200 a week.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#31 The 4 of Us

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 09:20 AM

So your now saying it's OK to put a further burden on these amateurs so that the professional's can carry on building their elite pyramid.IMO players and officials at amateur clubs already give up enough in their pursuit of their hobby and past time, some of these RFL officials need to remember many of these young men may hardly be bringing home £200 a week.


I'm not sure it's additional or not M. If you look at the passage it seems to be referring costs to be met. If the £640K is reference to admin all round for the community game, these are the costs paid by teams already when they pay their registration fee for the year. I'm not sure how much teams currently pay to their regional leagues for this?

I'm not sure what the costs per player refer to but the figure quoted is a bit less than subs that our lads pay now. I don't think one way or another an extra £10-£20 per year is going to be a deal breaker, even if it is in addition although any increase isn't gong to be welcomed with open arms these days.

#32 once a ref always a ref

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 09:20 AM

So your now saying it's OK to put a further burden on these amateurs so that the professional's can carry on building their elite pyramid.IMO players and officials at amateur clubs already give up enough in their pursuit of their hobby and past time, some of these RFL officials need to remember many of these young men may hardly be bringing home £200 a week.

 

You have just proved that you don't actually read the posts.  The bit you missed was this, "However I would vote against it and suggest any shortfall should come from TV money or World Cup profit."


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#33 Gar

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 09:46 AM

Now then Gar warm weather training is not going to prepare you for a competition in winter lets be sensible mate ?
It's a bloody jollie boys outing nothing more nothing less .
If Mc Namara picks the right team we might just get past the staged managed semi final but IMO that's as far as we will go , but we will have to pick several NRL based players to get us there .
But I'm confused in one post you say clubs can't afford it then say its ok if we win the World Cup mixed messages , the World Cup should be self financing and if the comp makes a profit do you think the RFL will drop the membership notion ?


Although I've used the term warm weather building I think it was as much about high altitude training and team building ahead of the Autumn Series. The majority of Super League clubs utilise warm weather camps so it's not unreasonable for the national set up. The national squad gets limited time together and they need to maximise the time available to them. From what I can recall the feedback after the trip seemed very positive. As for it being a jollie boys outing I'm sure it was a very professionally run trip with a lot of planning going in to the amount of training sessions and amount of time given to team building sessions. I tend to associate rugby league jollies more with BARLA tours than anything to do with the RFL. How much money does BARLA have in its bank account at a time when it's member clubs are struggling?

It all seems to boil down to two different approaches. The first, a negative one. Winter won't work so let's not even bother trying. At best we'll sit back do nothing and wait to say 'I told you so' or worse we we'll deliberately try and undermine those that are trying to make it work. Same with the World Cup, 'we're not going to win it so what's the point in investing any money in preparing the team. Contrast that with a second more positive approach. Whilst we may have some reservations about summer rugby it's here to stay so we'll do what we need to do to make it work? When the inevitable glitches and flaws emerge we'll try and find away around it. We may not start as favorites for the world cup but if we prepare in the right way, play as well as we can and with a bit of luck and home advantage who knows? Each to their own but I favour the second approach.

If we all went back to our clubs with the mentality of refusing to invest in our teams unless they were guaranteed winners we wouldn't have much of a game left. Players at elite levels of the amateur and professional game need and have earned the right to have different criteria applied to them than to others playing the game at lesser standards. Otherwise we might as well just play and train to the lowest common denominator and just be a nation of pub rugby league players.

#34 Marauder

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:41 AM

I'm not sure it's additional or not M. If you look at the passage it seems to be referring costs to be met. If the £640K is reference to admin all round for the community game, these are the costs paid by teams already when they pay their registration fee for the year. I'm not sure how much teams currently pay to their regional leagues for this?

I'm not sure what the costs per player refer to but the figure quoted is a bit less than subs that our lads pay now. I don't think one way or another an extra £10-£20 per year is going to be a deal breaker, even if it is in addition although any increase isn't gong to be welcomed with open arms these days.

You've been around the amateur game for a long time I assume ? 

 

What is the track record between the amateur game and the professional game and which party has always broke any agreement between the two since before BARLA was formed - As for your lads subs will these stop having to be paid once the RFL impose their elite survival tax on the amateurs, how long before all sponsors have to be recorded with the RFL and then the next step could be to demand their % (Operational rules are open for this to happen)

 

Maybe Super League should go down to 10 teams and the finances saved from the two teams should be poured into the development of juniors within a system that will increase participation at all levels and not just the elite few,


Edited by Marauder, 10 August 2013 - 10:45 AM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#35 Marauder

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:01 AM

You have just proved that you don't actually read the posts.  The bit you missed was this, "However I would vote against it and suggest any shortfall should come from TV money or World Cup profit."

I did read it and giggled because like me it's obviously which side of the fence your on and I'm sure the powers that be would listen to you and change every thing to a happy medium

 

Have you read the operational rules you have/about to sign ?

 

Obviously YOUR not aware of the tactic of getting everyone to sign up to the operational rules before fully implementing their full power and once you've signed where do you go? Because I have a feeling (giggling again) they will not listen to you UNLESS YOUR ONE OF THE CHOSEN FEW.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#36 The 4 of Us

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:13 AM

You've been around the amateur game for a long time I assume ?

What is the track record between the amateur game and the professional game and which party has always broke any agreement between the two since before BARLA was formed - As for your lads subs will these stop having to be paid once the RFL impose their elite survival tax on the amateurs, how long before all sponsors have to be recorded with the RFL and then the next step could be to demand their % (Operational rules are open for this to happen)

Maybe Super League should go down to 10 teams and the finances saved from the two teams should be poured into the development of juniors within a system that will increase participation at all levels and not just the elite few,


Definitely think more Sky money should find its way to the amateur coffers, but who would be responsible for spending it? Barla?

Not sure that RFL always the one breaking agreements but there seem to be many on both sides that seem more interested in the politics of it all than getting on with the job.

I do think Barla was needed and is still needed to represent the amateur game but I think the time has now come for a whole host of reasons for the RFL to be THE governing body.

I think Australia seem to be going in the right direction with its independent board.

I can assure you that I've had enough direct experience of the RFL to know all in the garden is not rosie and changes need to be made. But there are a lot of hardworking individuals in the right places who have the best interests of the game at heart and I think they should be given a little more credit than they are sometimes.

We have a fantastic game. Nearly 20,000 people at Wigan last night can attest to that. I think the time has come though for a bit more pulling together even if some are not convinced its in the right direction.

#37 Marauder

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:30 AM

Definitely think more Sky money should find its way to the amateur coffers, but who would be responsible for spending it? Barla?

Not sure that RFL always the one breaking agreements but there seem to be many on both sides that seem more interested in the politics of it all than getting on with the job.

I do think Barla was needed and is still needed to represent the amateur game but I think the time has now come for a whole host of reasons for the RFL to be THE governing body.

I think Australia seem to be going in the right direction with its independent board.

I can assure you that I've had enough direct experience of the RFL to know all in the garden is not rosie and changes need to be made. But there are a lot of hardworking individuals in the right places who have the best interests of the game at heart and I think they should be given a little more credit than they are sometimes.

We have a fantastic game. Nearly 20,000 people at Wigan last night can attest to that. I think the time has come though for a bit more pulling together even if some are not convinced its in the right direction.

I'll agree with most of what you have just said, your lucky to be involved with one of the elite amateur clubs who are definitely going to/have benefitted from the switch to summer and the relaxed transfer system in the junior/youth game (Did these relaxed rules come before or after the service areas)

 

Which clubs have benefitted the most from these relaxed rules, have the relaxed rules created elite amateur clubs and if yes are these elite amateur clubs the ones banging the RFL and summer drum, if the answer to most of these and there are a lot more questions is "yes" then you can see who has been manipulating who.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#38 The 4 of Us

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:40 AM


I'll agree with most of what you have just said, your lucky to be involved with one of the elite amateur clubs who are definitely going to/have benefitted from the switch to summer and the relaxed transfer system in the junior/youth game (Did these relaxed rules come before or after the service areas)

Not sure what you mean about more relaxed rules? There was another local club last year who were asking for squads of up to 35 players and 6 transfers. Thank goodness it was defeated because that would have seen some clubs/teams decimated. I said on another thread about us losing 4 players to one club in just 2 years. We certainly didn't benefit from our "name".

Which clubs have benefitted the most from these relaxed rules, have the relaxed rules created elite amateur clubs and if yes are these elite amateur clubs the ones banging the RFL and summer drum, if the answer to most of these and there are a lot more questions is "yes" then you can see who has been manipulating who.[/quote]

I don't think an elite has been formed because of the summer. The NCL has been a flagship for the game but it was for the 25 years or so it's been running. So I don't think the answer is yes. What may be the case is those clubs who have decided to get on with it, rather than trying to fight past battles, are making the most of the opportunity and showing you can make it work if you put your mind to it?

#39 TaxiEgg

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:43 PM

Gar quite a simplistic view and your right , but do you seriously think that people like myself want our national team to fail , wrong mate what I and many others want is a strong national game from bottom to top and to do that investment in the elite starts at six years old when kids come into the game and they need to be the ones we focus on .

We need structures in place that affords those children the best possible start in their rugby life teaching them the correct ethos of the sport and I,m sorry but when more money is invested in warm weather training camps in South Africa than the actual grass roots then I will continue to be critical of the system.

Out of interest what do posters believe the RFL do for the community game to explain the so called 640 K shortfall ?

#40 The 4 of Us

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 01:32 PM

Out of interest what do posters believe the RFL do for the community game to explain the so called 640 K shortfall ?


That's what I was trying to refer to before. I don't think it's clear from those minutes if its an actual shortfall ( in which case I think a demand would have already gone out ) or the collective costs of administering the amateur game now, which is already met from subscription fees.

The minutes refer to over reliance on Sport England money so it may refer to some development work of rfl employees?




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