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if you were young and unemployed today

figures out again

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#21 Li0nhead

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:39 AM

There has been an certain percentage who have basically been unemployable for a few decades. Its just this small percentage are very visible because of their nature (loud, a certain type of clothing, having a lot of free time during the day go to into town/supermarkets etc etc).

What we should be concentrating on is that vast majority of young people who have got off their duff and made a start at some sort of career. 



#22 Johnoco

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:45 AM

Manufacturing is still strong. Aerospace, defence, automotive, process etc.can't`get enough skilled, bright and qualified engineers . One problem is getting the right people to the right part of the country.

The problem is that factories that once employed hundreds of people who were not particularly skilled or bright and gave them the chance to earn decent money. Those factories now employ a few on poor wages. I live near the old International Harvesters factory that once made tractors. It once employed 2000 people on good wages. It is now a Morrisons employing mostly women on not that great money. Not knocking it as such, but this scenario can be repeated many times all over the country. This is why manufacturing is not like it was, even if we were producing more today (I have no idea if we are)

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#23 Marauder

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:51 AM

figures out today show un employment slightly down but the number of young people out of work risen yet again, I think if I was say 19-20ish and couldn't get a foot on the ladder I would be wondering why and most likely looking for some one or some thing  to blame, is it the banks fault? is it because british industry has gone to the dogs? is it because the country is awash with cheap foreign labour? is it because youths expect more for less these days? why is a british young persons employment prospects looking gloomier than ever before in 2013 Britain?

 

Manufacturing is still strong. Aerospace, defence, automotive, process etc.can't`get enough skilled, bright and qualified engineers . One problem is getting the right people to the right part of the country.

That's the word "Skilled"  how do school leavers become skilled when the first rung on the ladders are taken by foreign workers these days, the rung that taught kids that there was more than one 6 0'clock in a day, the rung that taught them punctuality, the rung that started them to think for themselves, the rung that moulded them into becoming good citizen's.

 

Some seem to think when we all left school we where all up and running and the bee's knee's, I bet if we could talk to the person who took us under their wing they will tell a slightly different tail but hopefully go on to say you made a good'un.


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#24 JohnM

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:10 AM

Many of the jobs in manufacturing that school leavers used to take up  no longer exist though.   Serried ranks of manual and semi-auto lathes and mills have been replaced by injection molding machines. One guy now looks after five or more  24/7 high-speed machining centres with robotic toolchangers.  There are no longer huge numbers of spinning and weaving machines to keep going. The vacancies are for people with Masters in CAE, Manufacturing Technology etc. 

 

Cameron in Leeds have 9 jobs posted on their web site: for example : here

 

Nissan are looking for people in Sunderland: see here

 

Siemens have 192  vacancies in the UK; see here


Edited by JohnM, 15 August 2013 - 08:10 AM.


#25 RidingPie

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:36 AM

I'm glad it helped you but generally it was £25 for effectively a full time job (that was just a cheap labour scam) or if it wasn't that, it was a total waste of time course in something or other.
There certainly wasn't the encouragement to go to Uni etc


I know it sounds unfair but getting that initial experience is always the problem. When my wife left uni about 8 years ago she volunteered to work at a local company for free in their accounts department for 6 weeks even though she had a 1:1 in Law and Accounts. Other students with the same grades took up to 6 months to get a job and really struggled. She had 3 full time offers within a month of completing the six weeks.

It may seem like a cheap labour scam, but what my wife got out of it was some real work experience, a good business reference, something to discuss that she's done in industry in an interview and a 2 days a week paid job (in the same place) until she got a permanent role sorted.

#26 Futtocks

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:44 AM

Some seem to think when we all left school we where all up and running and the bee's knee's, I bet if we could talk to the person who took us under their wing they will tell a slightly different tail but hopefully go on to say you made a good'un.

Quite. Apart from anything else, as a teenager, your social skills with adults aren't exactly the best, so dealing with customers can be a bit of a 'mare on both sides.

 

When I left school, my first job was a 10-month contract. I wonder if I'd have lasted that long if they didn't know I was only there for a set time. But my next job was easier to fit into, thanks to that first experience.


Edited by Futtocks, 15 August 2013 - 08:45 AM.

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#27 tim2

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:56 AM

I don't know if anyone saw the programme "Make me a German" on the BBC recently. It clearly showed to me that the work ethic and teamwork in the German pencil factory far outstripped what I see commonly over here. I'm not saying everyone here is lazy, but there is a distinct undercurrent of turning up at work and doing the least you can get away with.

Then again, employers these days are fairly ruthless and will pay as little as they can get away with, use zero hours contracts, keep people until just before their rights kick in and then lay them off etc. etc. Loyalty and "pulling in the same direction" requires all parties to have the same levels of commitment.

As for the foreign workers argument, perhaps its because they work hard and don't complain. Obviously I'd prefer to see those jobs going to our young people, but how many unemployed youngsters would travel from Sheffield to live in Kings Lynn and work in a sugar beet factory? Perhaps you could argue that they shouldn't have to, but in the end you can't poo jobs out of your backside when they don't exist.
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#28 Bleep1673

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:17 AM

I left school in 1978, went to college for 2 years before finishing, couldn't get a job in Salford for love nor money, got a YTS when I was 19 working for Wimpey (the builders, not the burgers) for 3 months working on various sites in the middles of winter (mostley in Altrincham, and the IBM building* in East Manchester), but that was it from July 1980 to May 1983. There was no work to be had in those days for someone with no work qualifications.

In 1983 I got another government sponsored scheme working 3 days a week in Trafford Park, working for a charity that restored old, crappy furniture, and putting them in related care homes, etc. It was fun, but not really challenging.

That finished in1984, after exactly 12 months, then I was lucky enough to get my training course for a ODA, in July 1984, and apart from a couple of days when I was doing Agency, I've been employed right the way through until last Monday.

I'm 51, and living in a town with zero (or close to zero) jobs. The local Labour candidate has suggested their are 27 people chasing each job in Hastings. But I'm not back to square one completely, I have some tranferrable skills, I now know how to deal with people in stressful situations, and I work as a volunteer at the local British Heart Foundation Furniture and Electricals shop one day a week, so I have some retail experience too.

 

I think my future lies in the self-employment sector. Where I have two ideas that just need bump starting to get off the ground.

 

*The IBM building was still visable from the approach to M/cr Piccadilly Stn, last time I was there, and it gives me a feeling of some pride that I had a hand in building that all those years ago.


Edited by Bleep1673, 15 August 2013 - 09:20 AM.

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#29 Johnoco

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:18 AM

I know it sounds unfair but getting that initial experience is always the problem. When my wife left uni about 8 years ago she volunteered to work at a local company for free in their accounts department for 6 weeks even though she had a 1:1 in Law and Accounts. Other students with the same grades took up to 6 months to get a job and really struggled. She had 3 full time offers within a month of completing the six weeks.

It may seem like a cheap labour scam, but what my wife got out of it was some real work experience, a good business reference, something to discuss that she's done in industry in an interview and a 2 days a week paid job (in the same place) until she got a permanent role sorted.

That is different though. It's one thing to offer your services free on a trial basis, in fact it can be a good idea. But the way it was then was 'do this or else'. Employers cottoned on to the fact that they didn't have to bother employing anyone permanently as they could just use the next divvy from the YTS.
It's even worse today for with that with agencies and zero hours contracts etc.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

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#30 Bleep1673

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:22 AM

Sorry if the above sounds like a job application.


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#31 JohnM

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:25 AM

a thought. because of the use of the internet,  one person can easily apply for 50 jobs, so those stories of 27 people applying for one job may be matched by one person applying for 27 jobs.

 

vacancies at Hastings Direct in Bexhill: https://hastingsinsu...rinso.com/i3rl/



#32 RidingPie

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:15 AM

I think my future lies in the self-employment sector. Where I have two ideas that just need bump starting to get off the ground.


Good luck! I went self employed 6 years ago and haven't regretted it. OK I have stressful times when I'm worried about where my next contract will be, but its always been worth it.

#33 Griff9of13

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:35 AM

I have a certain amount of sympathy with young people today. It sometimes looks like they've been sold a false dream; spend three years and £20k plus on a university education and the world will be at your feet, only to find the reality is that all the world has to offer is stacking shelves. Think if I'd just spent that amount of time, and money I'd come out with a bit of a sense or entitlement too.
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#34 Marauder

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:45 AM

I don't know if anyone saw the programme "Make me a German" on the BBC recently. It clearly showed to me that the work ethic and teamwork in the German pencil factory far outstripped what I see commonly over here. I'm not saying everyone here is lazy, but there is a distinct undercurrent of turning up at work and doing the least you can get away with.

Then again, employers these days are fairly ruthless and will pay as little as they can get away with, use zero hours contracts, keep people until just before their rights kick in and then lay them off etc. etc. Loyalty and "pulling in the same direction" requires all parties to have the same levels of commitment.

As for the foreign workers argument, perhaps its because they work hard and don't complain. Obviously I'd prefer to see those jobs going to our young people, but how many unemployed youngsters would travel from Sheffield to live in Kings Lynn and work in a sugar beet factory? Perhaps you could argue that they shouldn't have to, but in the end you can't poo jobs out of your backside when they don't exist.

Local kids in Kings Lynn can't get jobs in the local sugar beet factories Tim I also saw the "make me a German" program and it was also covered on BBC radio 2 the next day and one of the major factors that was coming across was the way the workers where treated by the management plus job security, it also said Germany focused more on the manufacturing industry than the financial industry.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#35 archibald

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:08 AM

 

Local kids in Kings Lynn can't get jobs in the local sugar beet factories Tim I also saw the "make me a German" program and it was also covered on BBC radio 2 the next day and one of the major factors that was coming across was the way the workers where treated by the management plus job security, it also said Germany focused more on the manufacturing industry than the financial industry.


From wiki, so, y'know, treat as you will.
Germany - service sector 70%, industry 29%, agriculture 1%
UK  - service sector 78%, industry 21%, agriculture 1%

#36 Marauder

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:16 AM

 

From wiki, so, y'know, treat as you will.
Germany - service sector 70%, industry 29%, agriculture 1%
UK  - service sector 78%, industry 21%, agriculture 1%

I'm going on what was said on the radio by Germans themselves not what someone has wrote in Wikipedia.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#37 archibald

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:42 AM

 

I'm going on what was said on the radio by Germans themselves not what someone has wrote in Wikipedia.

Fair enough

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#38 GeordieSaint

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:42 AM

Local kids in Kings Lynn can't get jobs in the local sugar beet factories Tim.

 

That's not from my experience. The kids in Kings Lynn don't want to do those jobs according to the lads I play rugby with in Kings Lynn; at least not for the working hours and pay that are currently on offer. That's why there are so many Lithanuians in the area; they are willing to do the shift work, again I know that as have the lads at the club are Lithanuian. Therefore, in my limited geographical opinion, the problem isn't the foreign employees taking jobs, it's the local population unwilling to do the work.

 

I'd also like to highlight another poster's comments about labour migration in the UK; there doesn't seem much get up and go from the lower skilled labour market to move to places like Lincolnshire, London etc to undertake jobs in factories, retail outlets, agricultural industry etc. I know that is a very broad brush comment but you see 'half' off Southern Europe moving to London to work in McDonalds and 'half' of Eastern Europe moving to Lincolnshire and agricultural east but few British workers willing to do the same. I don't understand it...


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#39 ckn

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 12:34 PM

One issue is that many of the lower end jobs that many people used as starter jobs have gone abroad.  Take for example IT, 10-15 years ago many people started as IT Support on the helldesk then took advantage of internal secondments to get jobs in the 2nd and 3rd tier technical careers, I know four IT directors who started in this way.  Now, more and more companies are outsourcing IT Support to India or any other country that can do this quite basic job for 1/5th of the cheapest price of someone sitting at a UK desk.  Same with many other starter jobs, you can't start at the bottom any more and hope to prove you're good enough because those jobs have gone abroad.

 

I know more than a few companies are complaining that they can't find good junior techies, that's because they expect them to come out of the woodwork as trained and experienced but don't want to give them that training and experience themselves.  It's a self-destructive circle that's just abysmal for Britain, give it 5-10 years and there won't be a good pool of senior techies leaving the only realistic option of outsourcing entire IT departments abroad.

 

I had a discussion with a finance director once about this and he looked at me as if I were completely bonkers when I suggested that the government should treat these outsourcing deals in the same way that they treat imported goods of premium stuff that we can make ourselves, smack them with a nasty import duty.  Surely it's the same principle, work that could be done in the UK is done elsewhere so the government taxes its import into this country.

 

On the subject of youth unemployment, I spent a bit of my 80s adolescence in Fife with my family chasing fewer and fewer mining jobs.  I remember the school making it clear that it was getting harder to get work with the pits all bar shutting down.  There were still options though, if you weren't going to university then you had the option of going to Rosyth dockyard for an apprenticeship, they were quite active in the school at enthusing the 15/16 year olds.  They took hundreds of apprentices per year, guaranteeing them a full apprenticeship despite there being only about a 1/10 chance of a full adult job at the end in the dockyard but the other 9/10 came out as fully trained and experienced tradesmen.  It was essentially the state paying for the training of a large number of skilled workers.  That's mostly gone now with the privatisation of the dockyard, its downsizing to about 1/4 capacity and the employers only taking on what apprentices they need.  The mining villages there are just pathetic now in their lack of future for the kids, once thriving villages full of workers are now sink estates.

 

In the past, if you were from one of the mining villages and managed to get to university then you got yourself a degree and a job in the trade of your degree with no real debt.  Now, you go to university, get a degree and far more often than not you get a job not in your trade of degree but also get a massive debt to pay back in terms of overdraft, student loans, fee loans and so on.  If you're a kid from a mining village with parents on low wages, if they have jobs, and you find out that you're likely to get a £30-£40,000 debt before you start work then that's going to put you off.  A degree is an utter waste of time for many employed people but it seems to be the new minimum for many jobs that have no intention of ever using the degree skills learned at university.  For example, I saw one of my clients advertising for an IT Support helldesk operator, they wanted massive experience and a 2:1 degree for sitting at a desk answering basic checklist questions.

 

It's a f***ing depressing state of affairs if you're a 16-18 year old from a working class background these days.  I'm damnably glad I don't have to go through that now.


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#40 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:43 PM

One issue is that many of the lower end jobs that many people used as starter jobs have gone abroad.  Take for example IT, 10-15 years ago many people started as IT Support on the helldesk then took advantage of internal secondments to get jobs in the 2nd and 3rd tier technical careers, I know four IT directors who started in this way.  Now, more and more companies are outsourcing IT Support to India or any other country that can do this quite basic job for 1/5th of the cheapest price of someone sitting at a UK desk.  Same with many other starter jobs, you can't start at the bottom any more and hope to prove you're good enough because those jobs have gone abroad..

 

It's not just the jobs, take training.  I can fly to India, pay for food, hotel, etc and do 2 weeks Cisco training for the price of just the course in the UK.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!




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