Jump to content


Rugby League World Issue 402

Try our Fantastic 5-Issue Bundle Offer! For just £18, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:
The Play-offs Issue - pictured (out 12 Sept) – Covering the climax of the Super League & Championship seasons
The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final excitement from both sides of the world plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Egypt


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#21 Bedford Roughyed

Bedford Roughyed
  • Moderator
  • 5,239 posts

Posted 18 August 2013 - 10:33 PM

But I'm not in  position to decide what's in our country's interest and what's not. Only what some politician says is in our interest. We were told that we went into Iran because they had weapons of mass destruction -they didn't.  We were told that we went into Afghanistan to protect our own streets from violence -7/7 happened in 2005 four years after we went into Afghanistan to keep our streets safe.  God alone knows what interest our country had in the affairs of Yugoslavia, but we sent troops all the same.  For my money unless we see a direct threat let them get on with it. I don't see Germany's troops getting killed in Afghanistan or France's or Japan's .  Surely any threat the Afghans pose against our country goes just as much for them as for us.  And certainly in the case of Germany and Japan they are much more able to afford military adventures than we are.  IMO it's more a case of cosying up to the US because of the so called "special relationship".

Germany has 57 killed, France 88.  Japan is not involved due to strict laws on how it uses it's military overseas.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#22 Bostik Bailey

Bostik Bailey
  • Coach
  • 1,680 posts

Posted 19 August 2013 - 07:44 AM

Germany has 57 killed, France 88. Japan is not involved due to strict laws on how it uses it's military overseas.


Correct Japan is only allowed a small Defence force, it cannot deploy in any conflict not directly affecting Japan.

There was an issue recently when a Japanese naval ship was being used to supply US ships on combat missions. This contravened the rules. In fact the Japanese parliament pointed this out.

#23 GeordieSaint

GeordieSaint
  • Coach
  • 4,782 posts

Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:08 AM

But I'm not in  position to decide what's in our country's interest and what's not. Only what some politician says is in our interest. We were told that we went into Iran because they had weapons of mass destruction -they didn't.  We were told that we went into Afghanistan to protect our own streets from violence -7/7 happened in 2005 four years after we went into Afghanistan to keep our streets safe.  God alone knows what interest our country had in the affairs of Yugoslavia, but we sent troops all the same.  For my money unless we see a direct threat let them get on with it. I don't see Germany's troops getting killed in Afghanistan or France's or Japan's .  Surely any threat the Afghans pose against our country goes just as much for them as for us.  And certainly in the case of Germany and Japan they are much more able to afford military adventures than we are.  IMO it's more a case of cosying up to the US because of the so called "special relationship".

 

Fair enough and thanks for the response. For your information, both Germany and France have a few thousand troops each in Afghanistan. The Germans are largely based in the north and are (or were) in overall Command of Regional Command (North). The froggies are largely centred around the Kabul area and to the east of the city. Both have had fatalities. The Japanese have provided financial assistance to the Afghan mission and even had boots on the ground in Iraq.


Kings Lynn Black Knights Rugby League Club - http://www.pitchero....nnblackknights/


#24 Saint Billinge

Saint Billinge
  • Coach
  • 2,660 posts

Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:45 PM

I don't think the Middle East will ever see harmony, such is the hatred for one another. 



#25 Saint Billinge

Saint Billinge
  • Coach
  • 2,660 posts

Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:01 PM

Fair enough and thanks for the response. For your information, both Germany and France have a few thousand troops each in Afghanistan. The Germans are largely based in the north and are (or were) in overall Command of Regional Command (North). The froggies are largely centred around the Kabul area and to the east of the city. Both have had fatalities. The Japanese have provided financial assistance to the Afghan mission and even had boots on the ground in Iraq.

 

Hi from Ray (Saint Billinge) Sent you a message. 



#26 Trojan

Trojan
  • Coach
  • 15,113 posts

Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:23 PM

But anyone who's read any history must know that there are never any winners in Afghanistan.We tried to colonise them throughout the 19th century, or at least put an end to the anarchy, and failed,  the Russians tried to do the same in the eigthties and it effectively finished the Soviet Union.  Now the Americans with our and other countries' aid think they can succeed where we and the Russians failed.  And it's been proved they can't.  IMO the Afghanistanis don't want order and democracy and representative government. They want to continue behaving like pirates,  IMO we should clear out and let them get on with it.


Edited by Trojan, 19 August 2013 - 09:24 PM.

"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#27 bedlam breakout

bedlam breakout
  • Coach
  • 740 posts

Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:33 PM

remember on the Jeremy vine show last year, there was a heated debate about what colour or size poppy should be worn for rememberance day, people were getting very irate about the topic and realy horrible to each other, if the human race can manage to fall out about something like that than what chance is there for future world peace?


the inside of a 3star halex table tennis ball smells much like you'd expect it to.

#28 GeordieSaint

GeordieSaint
  • Coach
  • 4,782 posts

Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:44 PM

But anyone who's read any history must know that there are never any winners in Afghanistan.We tried to colonise them throughout the 19th century, or at least put an end to the anarchy, and failed,  the Russians tried to do the same in the eigthties and it effectively finished the Soviet Union.  Now the Americans with our and other countries' aid think they can succeed where we and the Russians failed.  And it's been proved they can't.  IMO the Afghanistanis don't want order and democracy and representative government. They want to continue behaving like pirates,  IMO we should clear out and let them get on with it.

 

Where did that come from? :D


Kings Lynn Black Knights Rugby League Club - http://www.pitchero....nnblackknights/


#29 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 17,155 posts

Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:46 PM

Where did that come from? :D

It's much the same post as last time despite several flaws being pointed out.

 

The Soviets would have won in Afghanistan without US aid (via Pakistan) for one. The British Empire managed to annex half of Afghanistan (by population) into British India etc.



#30 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,078 posts

Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:50 PM

IMO we should clear out and let them get on with it.

When they were left to get on with it it became a terrorist factory, training, arming and organising the people who committed some of the biggest ever atrocities since WWII.

 

Let them get on with what exactly?


Edited by Padge, 19 August 2013 - 10:51 PM.


Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#31 walter sobchak

walter sobchak
  • Coach
  • 1,861 posts

Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:15 AM

But anyone who's read any history must know that there are never any winners in Afghanistan.We tried to colonise them throughout the 19th century, or at least put an end to the anarchy, and failed,  the Russians tried to do the same in the eigthties and it effectively finished the Soviet Union.  Now the Americans with our and other countries' aid think they can succeed where we and the Russians failed.  And it's been proved they can't.  IMO the Afghanistanis don't want order and democracy and representative government. They want to continue behaving like pirates,  IMO we should clear out and let them get on with it.


When has bombing people into a democracy worked? If the afghans or anybody else for that matter desire democracy then it must come from within and not on the end of a soviet, US or NATO missile.

#32 walter sobchak

walter sobchak
  • Coach
  • 1,861 posts

Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:22 AM

When they were left to get on with it it became a terrorist factory, training, arming and organising the people who committed some of the biggest ever atrocities since WWII.
 
Let them get on with what exactly?

Courtesy Of the west, we armed and trained the mujahideen and afghan Arabs known today as the Taliban and al Qaeda. Maybe we should think ahead of the blowback and unintended consequences when we go steaming into foreign adventures.

#33 Phil

Phil
  • Coach
  • 1,906 posts

Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:31 AM

When they were left to get on with it it became a terrorist factory, training, arming and organising the people who committed some of the biggest ever atrocities since WWII.

 

 

The Taliban never showed the slightest interest in exporting their brand of islam, and until the western intervention were busy bumping off members of al Qaeda who they saw as arrogant arabic interlopers.

 

If you're referring to 9/11 the perpetrators were mainly Saudis, you know one of "our" allies.


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#34 Saint Billinge

Saint Billinge
  • Coach
  • 2,660 posts

Posted 20 August 2013 - 10:24 AM

Where did that come from? :D

 

Did you receive my message?

 

Ray (Saint Billinge)



#35 GeordieSaint

GeordieSaint
  • Coach
  • 4,782 posts

Posted 20 August 2013 - 11:23 AM

Did you receive my message?

 

Ray (Saint Billinge)

 

Ray, just responded now - sorry missed the original message.

 

Courtesy Of the west, we armed and trained the mujahideen and afghan Arabs known today as the Taliban and al Qaeda. Maybe we should think ahead of the blowback and unintended consequences when we go steaming into foreign adventures.

 

You are certainly correct about the need to look at the unintended consequences of our actions but as pointed out in a previous thread, your initial sentence is incorrect.

 

The Taliban never showed the slightest interest in exporting their brand of islam, and until the western intervention were busy bumping off members of al Qaeda who they saw as arrogant arabic interlopers.

 

If you're referring to 9/11 the perpetrators were mainly Saudis, you know one of "our" allies.

 

When were the Taliban bumping off Al Qaeda operatives? For starters, that would be directly against Pashtun code 'Pashtunwali', which is the main law within Pashtun areas of Afghanistan; even this is more important than Islam to the Pashtuns. Hospitality is a key component of this when asked for hence the Taliban not giving up Bin Laden to the US in 2001 and even in some cases, American SF soldiers not being handed over to insurgents by the local population.

 

As for the Saudis, there is bigger fish to fry with them than 'supposed links' between the Royal Family and Al Qaeda. The Saudis are practically untouchable and it isn't just about oil.


Edited by GeordieSaint, 20 August 2013 - 11:26 AM.

Kings Lynn Black Knights Rugby League Club - http://www.pitchero....nnblackknights/


#36 walter sobchak

walter sobchak
  • Coach
  • 1,861 posts

Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:01 PM

The Taliban never showed the slightest interest in exporting their brand of islam, and until the western intervention were busy bumping off members of al Qaeda who they saw as arrogant arabic interlopers.
 
If you're referring to 9/11 the perpetrators were mainly Saudis, you know one of "our" allies.

Absolutely right, as barbaric as the Taliban were/are they didn't seek to export their brand of Islam nor commit acts of terrorism outside it's borders. As for the Saudis our "best friends" in the region what's the difference between the house of saud and the Taliban? The answer is of course oil, buying US/UK arms and investing trillions of $$$ in US banks and on wall st.

#37 walter sobchak

walter sobchak
  • Coach
  • 1,861 posts

Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:13 PM

We're not trying to do anything in Syria.Remind me exactly what we have done for the Syrian opposition.I'm struggling to think of one meaningful act carried out by HM Government and very, very little by the US either.


How about hundres of millions of $ and £ given to the Syrian rebels by the US and UK governments, how about the US and UK recognizing the Syrian "rebels" as the legitimate representatives of the Syrian people, how about the CIA and US special forces training the "rebels" in Jordan or the US and UK governments telling Assad to step down.

#38 walter sobchak

walter sobchak
  • Coach
  • 1,861 posts

Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:16 PM

[quote name="GeordieSaint" post="2771630" timestamp="1376997785"]Ray, just responded now - sorry missed the original message.
 

 
You are certainly correct about the need to look at the unintended consequences of our actions but as pointed out in a previous thread, your initial sentence is incorrect.
 Which was?

 

#39 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 17,155 posts

Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:08 PM

How about hundres of millions of $ and £ given to the Syrian rebels by the US and UK governments, how about the US and UK recognizing the Syrian "rebels" as the legitimate representatives of the Syrian people, how about the CIA and US special forces training the "rebels" in Jordan or the US and UK governments telling Assad to step down.


Only two of those claims are true.

The Syrian rebels have not been given money by the US or UK and special forces have not been training rebels in Jordan (which rebels? there is no significant rebellion in Jordan).

#40 Trojan

Trojan
  • Coach
  • 15,113 posts

Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:56 AM

When they were left to get on with it it became a terrorist factory, training, arming and organising the people who committed some of the biggest ever atrocities since WWII.

 

Let them get on with what exactly?

 

Killing one another. It's what they've always done. Quarantine the country and let them do what they like.


"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users