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Where would Wigan, Warrington Huddersfield fininsh in the NRL realistically?


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#41 Dave T

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:37 PM

Surely the point of this thread is to discuss how the actual current teams would fare against the current teams in the NRL?

Maybe, but the question was asking about the top clubs rather than teams.

 

When you look at the salary cap differences, it is not a fair comparison.



#42 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:12 PM

Any SL club playing in the NRL every week would have to change their style of play. The lying on and messing around at the PTB which is prevalent in SL would see our teams penalised out of the game every week.
The other major factor that I think would see most SL teams finish in the bottom half of the NRL league would be our lack of experience at playing at a higher intensity week in week out. NRL coaches teach their players to drive the opposition back in the tackle and knock them on the floor. For some reason SL coaches seem to coach our tacklers to 'bear hug' the opposition and then wrestle them to the ground or hold them up.
I think it would a good 2-3 seasons before SL teams start to adapt and can really challenge the top NRL teams week in week out.

Could you please tell that to Melbourne Storm?
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

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#43 The Big Gun

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:22 PM

Maybe, but the question was asking about the top clubs rather than teams.

 

When you look at the salary cap differences, it is not a fair comparison.

Yeah, but we can compare current teams relatively easily, it seems completely pointless comparing a hypothetical Wigan with more money and different players to current NRL sides.



#44 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:53 PM

I am not sure it's pointless at all. Even the same players would be better with better coaching, support staff and general infrastructure on things like diet, medical support and conditioning. If instead we are simply dropping those teams and clubs today into the NRL, then they may well struggle, but they'd be mad not to invest to put themselves on a level playing field.



#45 ChrisGS

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:04 PM

If SL clubs were exposed to the same level of intensity as the NRL,I'm sure our top 3 would give very good accounts of themselves.i don't buy into the Aussie "supermen" myth  that many fall for.

 

It's not an Aussie supermen myth though. NRL is the best competition in the world. When people talk of the high quality of the premier league in football(soccer) they aren't suggesting that English players are supermen. Clearly the Aussies aren't supermen, as evidenced by the influx of players from outside Australia into the competition. But what the Aussies obviously have is the strongest rugby league competition on planet earth, comfortably. For that reason most SL teams wouldn't get a look in.



#46 redjonn

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 06:29 PM

Of course any team just suddenly transplanted would struggle with the week to week intensity having not experienced it in Super-league.   But once having played in the NRL they would adjust to the intensity and improve.  The key is to improve the regularity of intensity in Super-league.   The evidence of ex super-league players doing well in NRL tells us that the clubs would also adjust in time.  


Edited by redjonn, 20 August 2013 - 06:29 PM.


#47 petero

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 07:22 PM

Are we allowed the same salary cap, and the same level of coaching and back room staff? If so, give it a couple of years and our top teams would go well. I think Wigan and Leeds would be best placed, as they have the best youth systems and so could more easily produce strength in depth, but if Scott Moore can get a run in the NRL, clearly the minimum standards are no higher.

 

Agreed with the fact that trained and playing to the NRL standards for some seasons then so many S/L players would become much better exponents of the game, excellence does breed excellence that is a fact in all sports.

 

But, you should do more research when quoting Scott Moore and players making it in the NRL from the N/Hemi. He was given the chance early in the season, the first six or seven games I would guess.

Since then, to my knowledge, he has had one spell in the first team which lasted for about 15 minutes and was dropped for the next game.

 

That does not in my book signify that Scott Moore is a huge success (yet) by any means down under.

NQ were needing an hooker badly but Scott could not fulfil that role with any sort of quality and is currently at least it would seem third in line for selection, this at a club without a fully recognised hooker otherwise than Moore, before this season started, then on its books. 



#48 petero

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 07:50 PM

Of course any team just suddenly transplanted would struggle with the week to week intensity having not experienced it in Super-league.   But once having played in the NRL they would adjust to the intensity and improve.  The key is to improve the regularity of intensity in Super-league.   The evidence of ex super-league players doing well in NRL tells us that the clubs would also adjust in time.  

 

That bemuses me somewhat, if as you seem to believe, that any S/L side would simply grow into a fully competitive NRL team, simply through becoming used to and made aware of the intensity required for the NRL, so thereby naturally grow into a competitive NRL side, how do you explain the negative and deserved comments placed in the direction of Parramatta and Wests concerning their lack of ability in doing so, after being brought up and being conditioned to the aspects required to compete successfully in that competition? 

 

Luke Burgess was playing very well last season and his injury that has kept him out of the game for all of this season is possibly the factor that he now has to get over quickly, simply in order to re-establish his credentials.

Last weeks return was not at all good and a lot of improvement will be necassary from him. But Luke and Scott moore apart, Sam B, J Graham and G Ellis all went over with large reputations, possibly being the best in their positions over here and all have coped, excelled and further enhanced them since going to the NRL.

 

However S Moore has not done so and it remains to be seen how those heading that way next season will perform when the do get there.

I hope all prove as good as the three I have mentioned but should any exceed what the Burgess twins, especially George have accomplished that will certainly prove an eye opener indeed. The Aussies will most certainly have to re-appraise their opinions on English players.

None of them to my knowledge are currently setting even the S/L on fire, let alone the NRL. 



#49 Just Browny

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 12:10 AM

Wigan would be first by miles.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#50 Steve May

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 08:43 AM

Based in Oz full time - Around 5th-10th.

 

Flying over every 2 weeks - Bottom 3.

 

 

I spent a three months this year working two weeks in the UK and then two weeks in Australia.  It's bloody tough going.  By the end I was basically a vegetable.

 

If you put the Roosters or Souths into the SL on the basis that they would travel to and from Australia to play home and away fixtures like any other team they would finish bottom of the table by a mile.  Believe me, they'd struggle to win a game in the back half of the season.


That's me.  I'm done.


#51 Steve May

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 08:53 AM

However S Moore has not done so and it remains to be seen how those heading that way next season will perform when the do get there.

I hope all prove as good as the three I have mentioned but should any exceed what the Burgess twins, especially George have accomplished that will certainly prove an eye opener indeed. The Aussies will most certainly have to re-appraise their opinions on English players.

None of them to my knowledge are currently setting even the S/L on fire, let alone the NRL. 

 

Scott Moore?   It's no surprise to me that a player who floated about SL without ever really cementing his reputation or building on his obvious talent is now repeating the same thing in a different league.

 

If you look over the last few decades, the top level of British RL has seen plenty of Australian players who came with a huge reputation and did nothing of note.  The individual ability and personality of the player involved is a far bigger marker of success than the relative merits of the two competitions.

 

It's also worth noting the importance of people close to the player.  At Huddersfield we've had very good Australian players, with big reputations, who've underperformed because their families didn't settle in the area.   There isn't much you can do about that except support them to help them through it, and if if it comes to it let them head back to Aus and bring it to an end on good terms.


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#52 redjonn

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:32 PM

That bemuses me somewhat, if as you seem to believe, that any S/L side would simply grow into a fully competitive NRL team, simply through becoming used to and made aware of the intensity required for the NRL, so thereby naturally grow into a competitive NRL side, how do you explain the negative and deserved comments placed in the direction of Parramatta and Wests concerning their lack of ability in doing so, after being brought up and being conditioned to the aspects required to compete successfully in that competition? 

 

Luke Burgess was playing very well last season and his injury that has kept him out of the game for all of this season is possibly the factor that he now has to get over quickly, simply in order to re-establish his credentials.

Last weeks return was not at all good and a lot of improvement will be necassary from him. But Luke and Scott moore apart, Sam B, J Graham and G Ellis all went over with large reputations, possibly being the best in their positions over here and all have coped, excelled and further enhanced them since going to the NRL.

 

However S Moore has not done so and it remains to be seen how those heading that way next season will perform when the do get there.

I hope all prove as good as the three I have mentioned but should any exceed what the Burgess twins, especially George have accomplished that will certainly prove an eye opener indeed. The Aussies will most certainly have to re-appraise their opinions on English players.

None of them to my knowledge are currently setting even the S/L on fire, let alone the NRL. 

 

My key point was that if one believes the NRL is stronger overall then just suddenly transplanting the teams from a weaker league would of course mean those teams would initial struggle. That is until they get used to playing and hence focusing on the development areas identified as important by playing in that league they would improve.   This applies to any sport and league.   I don't think that our Super League top players couldn't develop into being as good as the typical NL player given the same environment.   I think initially and in their first season most will take time to adapt with regards to overall effectiveness.  I assume some of the NRL clubs are keen to bring some of the Super-league players over because they believe they have what it takes to be successful. Although some may fail they don't take a punt on the players without identifying something that tells them they will succeed and that they offer something more than the local players they are holding back by virtue of taking a place that the local player would have.



#53 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 11:48 AM

I switched from Super League to NRL at the time of the abandonment of licensing and to me NRL is simply a class apart. Much as I loved SL there's no way I'd ever have watched 5 or 6 SL games per weekend that I frequently now manage with NRL. The key differences are the speed of the PTB and the quality of the outside backs but really in every aspect the NRL games are superior.

 

I don't think there's any more than about 30-40 SL players that would hack it in NRL. Our best could mix it with their best but there's so many fewer of them. We also spread them thinly across such a small number of teams that they don't sufficiently improve either themselves or the rest of the players in the competition. Intensity and parity is key in NRL and they reap what they sow.

 

SL needs to copy NRL hook, line and sinker. Mergers, expansion, presentation. Sadly I'm not sure our own top man (Barwick) has even heard of it. But then he isn't an RL expert etc. etc.


Edited by DeadShotKeen, 23 August 2013 - 12:07 PM.


#54 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 12:06 PM

Spread them thin might be the wrong turn of phrase there. Spread them thickly like gloopy treacle across just 3 or 4 teams. Yes, that's better.

 

And I'm aware with my NRL viewing binge that I need to get out more before anyone starts! :)



#55 Ant

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:04 PM

See, at the start of the season I was watching every NRL game played, they were of very very mixed quality and a lot of teams were equal to the bottom end if Superleague

Is the NRL better? Pass.
It's richer, has more players and more intensity of games but is often "by the numbers" and formulaic.

Yes the best teams in the NRL are probably better than the best in SL. But the best in SL would not be out of place in super league IMO

Also, given the rest of Aussie sport is in a decline, who says the NRL is immune to that?

#56 redjonn

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:06 PM

I switched from Super League to NRL at the time of the abandonment of licensing and to me NRL is simply a class apart. Much as I loved SL there's no way I'd ever have watched 5 or 6 SL games per weekend that I frequently now manage with NRL. The key differences are the speed of the PTB and the quality of the outside backs but really in every aspect the NRL games are superior.

 

I don't think there's any more than about 30-40 SL players that would hack it in NRL. Our best could mix it with their best but there's so many fewer of them. We also spread them thinly across such a small number of teams that they don't sufficiently improve either themselves or the rest of the players in the competition. Intensity and parity is key in NRL and they reap what they sow.

 

SL needs to copy NRL hook, line and sinker. Mergers, expansion, presentation. Sadly I'm not sure our own top man (Barwick) has even heard of it. But then he isn't an RL expert etc. etc.

 

Not totally disagreeing with your comments ... but the one around number of players reminds me that when I listen to seasoned commentators I get confused by the following logic:

 

1. On the one hand the game hasn't enough good players for a "X" team league

 

2. Then almost in the same breath the positivity towards the development of young players from some of the top teams, like Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Warrington, etc , whom all get praise for the excellent academy work.  This based on the number of youngsters that have come in and shone at those same clubs.

 

Surely the 2nd must mean that more players of good calibre will be around looking for clubs.   

Unless they all go off to Aussie land as per the two young ones from Leeds Academy.  But then that trend would eventually impact the number of Aussie born players in NRL which I'm sure wouldn't be allowed above a certain impact. Then of course we would have more Aussie players that would be looking for clubs over here. All-be-it what people like to describe as "B" class Aussie those "B" class Aussie will be better than now as more spots are taken from young players here going over there...

 

Anyway hard to put in words but the x2 comments seem mutually exclusive to me...


Edited by redjonn, 23 August 2013 - 07:07 PM.


#57 Wilderspoolmemories

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:17 PM

There's a simple,straightforward answer to this one.

 

1. Warrington

2. Huddersfield

3. Wigan

 

:tongue:


2009 Warrington 25 Hudderfield 16
2010 Warrington 30 Leeds 6
2011 League Leaders Shield Winners
2012 Warrington 35 Leeds 18

Challenge cups and league leaders shields everywhere! We need more silver polish!

#58 The Big Gun

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 07:17 PM

See, at the start of the season I was watching every NRL game played, they were of very very mixed quality and a lot of teams were equal to the bottom end if Superleague

Is the NRL better? Pass.
It's richer, has more players and more intensity of games but is often "by the numbers" and formulaic.

Yes the best teams in the NRL are probably better than the best in SL. But the best in SL would not be out of place in super league IMO

Also, given the rest of Aussie sport is in a decline, who says the NRL is immune to that?

A lot of teams in the NRL are not equal to the bottom end of Super League, that's complete nonsense.
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